Economic Woes

[Liverslapper]

What are your thoughts on the crisis?

Inevitable.

Government handout? Where does the money come from? Federal Reserve. Who wants this happen? Federal Reserve. Why? Because they put the interest on whatever loans they give out. Bankruptcy? They will give out the handout because other then war which is the main source of income for the reserve, they will handout a loan because then you get more money created out of thin air each time which goes into the America's money supply.

It's all a cycle, inflation, depression. America fucking pisses me right off.

 

[Liverslapper]

I was reading on CNN yesterday...

I'll watch the news when they tell us what really goes on behind the curtain. Other then that your just fed what the government wants you to know, which is a load of useless bullshit.

 

[Mark7]

Economics is a web too complex for any one person to have all the answers to...


In other news the Ozz man turned 60 today!!

 

[Liverslapper]

Economics is a web too complex for any one person to have all the answers to...

“Our Great Industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men.. who necessarily, by very reason of their own limitations, chill and check and destroy genuine economic freedom.”

You can't have all the answers. You are part of a mathematical equation that has to balance itself out, which is why you have "inflation, depressions and so forth. Therefore you are part of the answer for the corrupt Federal Reserve, by the way is a private organization and has no control from the government what-so-ever.

The public was specifically told that the Federal Reserve System was going to be an economic stabilizer, but all it really was is the bankers move to create this machine to expand their personal ambitions. Materialism is one thing, War gains more profit then anything else, the MOTOR INDUSTRY.

I don't have a bank account, never will.

I don't watch the mainstream media, i find unfiltered media on the net.

I don't do my taxes.

As long as we are part of this monetary system, we hold nothing.

 

[Dead Winter]

3.5 million jobs.. how about that. Cars that don't last? My last work truck (GMC) has 250,000 miles on it, 2 alternators and two fuel pumps, that's all. It's towed something for about 90% of those miles ,I change the oil every 10,000 miles and it's usually about a quart low by then. My daily driver Pontiac Montana knocks down 30-32 mpg at 150,000 miles, burns no oil and I put a battery cable and a battery in it so far. 95 trans am runs mid 12 second quarters, 75 mph 28 mpg. Tow my boat with it at times never a hiccup. How about a nearly 600 hp corvette, runs mid 11's and still manages 26-27 mpg with a 100k warranty, that's probably a piece of crap too. The bullshit about American cars being crap is nothing but propaganda bullshit. Plenty of my friends work as foriegn car techs and they are no better off than any American car by any means.

Let's not forget the car rags that thrive on overseas advertisement money and will do ANYTHING to throw American vehicles under the bus.

The government with unfair CAFE standards and ridiculous tax breaks to overseas vehicle corporations to lure them to U.S. soil have done as much harm to the auto industry as the slide rule, greedy pencil pushing geeks on Wall Street, the crooks at Fannie Mae, and the loser financial institutions who gave every lazy asswipe a no money down mortgage. Yet these banks get a 700+ BILLION handout to only sit on. The auto makers are trying to situate a deal to save american jobs, to the tune of over 3 million. At least get your shit straight over there on the other side of the fence before pointing fingers. Go to your Wal-Mart for your useless Chinese goods, buy your Honda's and Toyota's.. then bitch about the U.S. economy..right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7YB...reamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173351

Dude, 30 mpg and that's it? You think in the year 2008 that's a good thing? I was getting 30 mpg ten years ago, and now I'm getting about 50-60 mpg here. And yes, American cars DON'T LAST. 250,000 miles is the MINIMUM expectancy here "on this side of the fence", and you're BRAGGING about it? You know how many times I change my oil? ONCE A FRIGGIN' YEAR. You know how low it is? About a half a quart.

It's not that American cars COULDN'T be great cars, it's just that the auto companies seem to not want them to be. At 200,000 miles, you're already thinking about trading it in for a new one. At 200,000 here, a car with a diesel engine is just broken in. The car's still running fine.

All I'm saying is that if American car companies want to be competitive in the auto market, they're going to have to start offering something more. It's not just American car companies that are shit right now, because Volkswagen is in the same boat. Their cars are absolute dogshit right now...save your money and get a German-made Ford because it's got the same good aspects of the Audi and the last few good aspects of the VW without the price tag. See, you think you're speaking to some Euro-trash ass, but I'm American and I've owned American cars and pickups all my life, so I know what the fuck I'm talking about. My family had a corvette too, but a vette is for fun. You can't even bring that up in conversation. Why don't I just bring up Aston Martin or Ferrari? We're talking normal cars, not sports cars which are the exception to the rule.

Bottom line: American cars, which once had a great reputation for being strong and quite economic, have basically shit the bed in the past 10 years. Why buy a car that gets gas mileage equal to what it got 15 years ago and that doesn't last as long when you could get one for the same price that exceeds it in all aspects?

And why do we bail out the banks? BECAUSE THEY RUN THE WORLD. Believe it or not, car companies don't and they never will. Cars are a luxury...money is a necessity. You can't eat a car.

 

[Captain Beard]

*Raises hand* Due to how cars here fall apart, I trade at about 125,000-130,000.

 

[Dead Winter]

Another thing: is 3.5 million jobs supposed to make me weep for them or something? GUESS WHAT? In a free-market society, you have to accept the shitty aspects of it too. If you want a guaranteed contract with your job, move to Europe.

This is EXACTLY what I was talking about. When everyone's making money hand over fist, everyone's making fun of Euro business standards. But as soon as someone realizes they're gonna be out of a job due to the complete inadequacy of American auto manufacturing and better competition, which, by the way, is the most BASIC rule of free market capitalism, they start singing a different tune and all of a sudden a little government "interference" doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

I say fuck 'em. For years they've raped and pillaged economically, and now they want someone to save them from the hole they've dug themselves into? Again, FUCK 'EM. If government regulation wasn't good enough for you then, it shouldn't be good enough for you now when you need it. Suck it up and find a new job.

 

[Captain Beard]

The problem is, there really aren't any new jobs at the moment, and they expect Obammy to only create 2 million or so within the first 2-3 years. You can laugh and harrumph all you want, but the global market follows US lead at this point, and if shit goes wrong here, you guys get punched in the cocks too.

 

[Dead Winter]

And this is the importance of higher education. I know it sucks but this is capitalism. If your business is doing poorly, you can expect to be out of a job, when here it's very difficult to downsize at such an enormous number.

The only solution to this problem is to either start making better cars that people want to buy or change the system of government and business to a more socialized capitalism.

 

[Captain Beard]

Well, no I understand how it works, but I figure if they're going to bail these cockmongers out, the cash needs to comes with the stipulation that the boards of all 3 companies are wiped and they start anew. That's how you deal with bad (big) business. Maybe I'll buy an American company car again if they can bring quality and service back to the line up of products. This way, controls are in place (I'm NOT in favor of free market for mega conglomerates) and they can begin a push for efficiency and longevity. A good warranty, say 10Y/100K miles would be a kind start, ala Kia. Perhaps cars guaranteed to last as long as American TRUCKS (300,000 miles.) I figure, let them have their money, but royally FUCK the CEOs and chairpersons that brought this on their companies.

 

[Dead Winter]

Agreed!

 

[Captain Beard]

I'm also in favor of execution for corrupt government and corporate people, but that comes later.

 

[Liverslapper]

I'm also in favor of execution for corrupt government and corporate people, but that comes later.

Thank you.

 

[Captain Beard]

If I were dictator by force, there's a good chance people would actually like my policies, aside from the fact I killed off the ENTIRE government except as advisors and carriers of my will. Few civil liberties would change, and most of the restructuring would deal with megabusiness, government change (states could still police most of their own laws) and redesign of the prison system. Execution would be only for serious shit, and would be so horrible as to make a point. Drug imprisonment would change to or come with with programming, and serious "big drug" who hurts others would be sent to Jan Mayen, which I'd buy from Norway. And NO FUCKING FAITH BASED PROGRAMS.

 

[Liverslapper]

Look into the Venus Project.

 

[Captain Beard]

I'm a serious friggin' Futurist. I'd become a full cyborg if they let me.

 

[Liverslapper]

I'm a serious friggin' Futurist. I'd become a full cyborg if they let me.

+10 for David.


Imagine a resource based economy. With technology today, this is something that can be seriously put to use. Solar energy, geothermal, renewable sources. The reason we don't have these put to good use today is because the government uses the resources to milk our wallets.

This can really happen...We just need to exploit the corrupt system and take the chance. I'm a strong believer and I am deeply troubled by the now. I would do anything for this.

 

[Captain Beard]

You, me, and half the scientists in the US. Well, the theoretical physicists at least.

As for cyborgy, dude, as long as I could keep simulated reproductive and digestive systems (I wanna eat a fucking burger and get wood, and if it can be done, ejaculate something that resembles organic viscous fluid, because dry firing sucks) I'd be first in line for robot parts.

 

[Captain Beard]

I'm also a big Helium 3 guy, but we'd have to moon-mine for it. And only assholes can afford to go do that.

 

[flying_whale]

Stop complaining about all this money the government is pouring into the economy. 7 trillion is a lot, but not that much. It is less than the money wiped out by falling assets, such as the stock market again.
TO prevent a shitty debt-deflation spiral in which money is destroyed from the economy, the government must really inject money to keep industries alive while demand recovers, and at the same time must boost the economy. The FED is running out of monetary tools to boost the money supply, interest rates are virtually at zero and negative interest rates are virtually impossible at this point.

So really, shit is more complicated than oh noes it is my money, i get to keep it and not bail out people. At the same time, it is not even your money the government is pouring in, not even you grandchildren as a republican partisan goes. The way this is done both through debt AND a helicopter money drop (aka printing money with clean accounting)