Economic Woes
- Thread starter Dead Winter
- Start date
~Lynn~
Bah...
It's not a bailout like the criminals on wallstreet were handed. It's a loan.
Liverslapper
w00t
It's always been more complicated. But the FED running out of monetary tools to boost at this point I would have to disagree with. You know if they do run out of anything that can get it. It never was any of our money, it goes right to the bank. You are also very correct, it is done by DEBT and clean accounting aka creating money from thin air.
Now this throws a wrench into the equation. The criminals on Wall Street should be sent to jail and be forced to repay the money. The problem is finding those responsible...you can't just put thousands and thousands of people in jail at the same time.
I agree that it's not fair, but then again, it's not fair that it's nearly 2009 and American auto makers still can't make a car that gets 50+ mpg. It begs the question: what has American industry produced in the last ten years that yielded a profit besides war? Sounds like innovation is going down the tubes.
Liverslapper
w00t
The money that is loaned out has interest, 10%. There you have it, here is a 10 billion dollar loan, now you have 1 billion in excessive reserve for new loans! Then you have 9 billion created from thin air and then you have an increase of money supply.
the FED LOVES the word "loan".
So 7 trillion to the automotive industry? damn....
Liverslapper
w00t
slashvanyoung
Dopefish lives!
~Lynn~
Bah...
Find me a car that gets 50 mpg and is usefull and is'nt a tiny shit box that does'nt cost 30 grand. The hybrid theory is so full of holes it's ridiculous. What keeps the interior of a hybrid warm in cold weather? Oh yeah the gas motor. Lithium for the batteries comes from a single source in South America, and production of the batteries yeilds enough toxins that a full size pickup truck is actually cleaner to produce and run for 100,000 miles. Electric cars, cool idea, but unless they are charged from solar cells what charges them.. oh yeah.. coal fed or nuclear power plants. Only untill hydrogen powered vehicles come along will there be a honest and viable alternative fueled vehicle. Which sorry to disapoint you in this country is led by General Motors and the University of Michigan.
Dude, what the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about gas and diesel-burning engines. Who the hell mentioned anything about a green car?
The country that Americans love to hate makes better cars: FRANCE. Dude, even Euro Fords are better than American Fords. I drive a 1998 Ford station wagon all over the place for my job and my bands and it has 150,000 miles on it RIGHT NOW. You know what I'm gonna replace on it at 150,000 miles? The shock absorbers and tires. I haven't touched anything else and every year I get it checked out BECAUSE IT'S THE LAW HERE, they give it a clean bill of health EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
The fact that you don't even know what else is out there proves my point exactly. You're so used to mediocre longevity from American cars that you think 150,000 miles is actually a lot and you can't comprehend another automobile that gets around 50 mpg unless it's some hybrid POS.
Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, Skoda, and Audi make great cars with great fuel efficiency and great longevity. Not all are 50 mpg of course, as they are the bigger cars with bigger engines, but they are AT LEAST on par or above the shit the Big Three are shitting out these days. Some are smaller and some are larger, but no smaller or larger than the standard American car. Stay away from Italy, however.
You want me to buy a Monte Carlo for $20,000? Fuck that. Give me an Audi instead...I'll be able to pass it on to my kid in 25 years.
The country that Americans love to hate makes better cars: FRANCE. Dude, even Euro Fords are better than American Fords. I drive a 1998 Ford station wagon all over the place for my job and my bands and it has 150,000 miles on it RIGHT NOW. You know what I'm gonna replace on it at 150,000 miles? The shock absorbers and tires. I haven't touched anything else and every year I get it checked out BECAUSE IT'S THE LAW HERE, they give it a clean bill of health EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
The fact that you don't even know what else is out there proves my point exactly. You're so used to mediocre longevity from American cars that you think 150,000 miles is actually a lot and you can't comprehend another automobile that gets around 50 mpg unless it's some hybrid POS.
Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, Skoda, and Audi make great cars with great fuel efficiency and great longevity. Not all are 50 mpg of course, as they are the bigger cars with bigger engines, but they are AT LEAST on par or above the shit the Big Three are shitting out these days. Some are smaller and some are larger, but no smaller or larger than the standard American car. Stay away from Italy, however.
You want me to buy a Monte Carlo for $20,000? Fuck that. Give me an Audi instead...I'll be able to pass it on to my kid in 25 years.
Zach.Zhang
Member
~Lynn~
Bah...
Ya mediocre reliability, I have a GMC work truck with 250 k on it that still runs like a top. The one before that I sold with 312k and it ran fine save for the rear end whining a little bit. But hey some boats that it towed weighed 7-8000 pounds, damn shitty american quality.My van just rolled 150k with no issues and I'm not planning on selling it anytime soon.
I've been around cars and involved in racing of all sorts since I have been eight years old douche bag, along with having been all about Europe several times along with Japan. So don't tell me what I don't know what's out there, I'm not the average dumbfuck American you like to portray and throw under the bus.
I've been around cars and involved in racing of all sorts since I have been eight years old douche bag, along with having been all about Europe several times along with Japan. So don't tell me what I don't know what's out there, I'm not the average dumbfuck American you like to portray and throw under the bus.
Did I ever mention anything about American trucks? You're talking to the guy who used to drive the very first Ford power stroke F-350 series four door dually. I grew up on a friggin' ranch, man, and I used to haul cattle in 28 foot gooseneck trailers and hauled horses all over the country going from rodeo to rodeo. We drove the damn wheels off that thing. Don't talk to me about a work truck. We're talking cars.
Now that the name-calling is out of the bag, allow me to retort.
I don't give a rat's furry ass about whatever white trash dirt track racing you've been into. I'm not here to tell you that you don't know anything about cars, because obviously you know a lot about American vehicles. However, you also obviously don't know dick about vehicles over on this side of the pond or you wouldn't have gotten your panties in such a bunch over having a vehicle that lasts more than 100k miles at 30 mpg and thinking that's some sort of milestone.
All I'm saying is that the American auto manufacturers aren't what they used to be. You can take your sentimental bullshit and shove it up your uptight ass for all I care, it doesn't change the fact that all you yokels working in the Big Three plants are about to lose your jobs because you can't get your head around the fact that nobody wants to buy your shitty cars. "What??? No one wants to spend $100 every time at the gas station to fill up my SUV??? IT CAN'T BE ANYTHING WE'VE DONE!!!! It must be those damn Japs and all those fucking Euro-trash cocksuckers!!!"
Trucks are a different matter entirely.
Do you wanna know why 3.5 million jobs will be lost? Because they all share your type of thinking and can't understand why no college students want to drive tanks which require nuclear fusion to power them.
Macharius
Thank you for noticing.
Did you watch when the big 3 showed up in DC and asked for their bailout a few weeks ago? They each showed up in their own private jets, one Rep opened with:
"So, why did you all get in your fancy jets and fly over separately? I thought you didn't have any money, you couldn't have just 'air pooled'?
After all the bullshit Rep. Bradley Sherman concluded with "I'm going to ask you to raise your hand if you're planning to sell your jet in place now and fly back commercial." For the record, no hands went up.
Ok article.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6293634&page=1
Fuck them....
"So, why did you all get in your fancy jets and fly over separately? I thought you didn't have any money, you couldn't have just 'air pooled'?
After all the bullshit Rep. Bradley Sherman concluded with "I'm going to ask you to raise your hand if you're planning to sell your jet in place now and fly back commercial." For the record, no hands went up.
Ok article.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6293634&page=1
Fuck them....
Haha, yeah let's fire a bunch of people instead of selling our jet and flying first class. These guys have the right idea. Suuuuure.
No wonder they're in the shitter. I hope they all go bankrupt.
No wonder they're in the shitter. I hope they all go bankrupt.
deathstrike from hell
Deathstrike lambtron
I agree. The auto industry has always been an evil, constantly getting away with murder. And now they're having to answer for it.
It sucks because of so many jobs around cleveland and detriot being lost, but shit happens.
It sucks because of so many jobs around cleveland and detriot being lost, but shit happens.
But here's the thing...it's not just automakers who are losing their jobs. People are losing their jobs all over the entire country, should we bail them out too? Are they not worthy just because they don't make as much money?
You know why I don't feel sorry for the automakers who get laid off? Because they get unemployment PLUS several hundred per week PLUS benefits from their unions. I'd shit a brick if you told me I could make 400 bucks a week sitting on my ass, collecting unemployment. Fuck them too. Stop complaining.
If John gets laid off from Circuit City, do you think he's gonna get unemployment plus union benefits? I seriously doubt it. He's gonna have to start slinging again just to eat.
You know why I don't feel sorry for the automakers who get laid off? Because they get unemployment PLUS several hundred per week PLUS benefits from their unions. I'd shit a brick if you told me I could make 400 bucks a week sitting on my ass, collecting unemployment. Fuck them too. Stop complaining.
If John gets laid off from Circuit City, do you think he's gonna get unemployment plus union benefits? I seriously doubt it. He's gonna have to start slinging again just to eat.
~Lynn~
Bah...
I don't really give a rat's furry ass about the flaming ignorance and blind sight your euro transplanted ass has to say either. Moving over there sure made you an expert on everything from dialect to global economics. But hey your always right judging by the numorous other pissing match threads you've won in your own head, I must be really bored to be replying to any of this so I'll end it here.
What I worked on was a lot of SCCA trials and rally cars from where...... hey Europe and Japan! Audi, Volvo, Porche, Renault, Saab,Honda, Toyota, Nissan etc. Sorry never been a big dirt track white trash guy.
Now to dig into your Euro Super complex if the shit boxes from over seas are the be all end all of vehicles it's amazing they have'nt been showing up on these shores to save the world. The only one worth a damn to come over here is the diesel vw beetle. Where are all the miracle 50 mpg wonder mobiles from Japan? Honda and Toyotas sales are down 30-40% in the states now. Must be the shitty cars and workers.
What is bringing the car companies to their knees here is not that they build a bad product, but the chain of events of a global melt down and some very poor choices of the last two terms of leadership (nafta and FTA) with no protectionism for american buisness.(look to Sweden for a good example of import tax protectionism) The housing industry was the canary in the mine. Followed by recreational industries i.e. marine and rv, continue the bleed down effect into the airline and transport. Now we have a huge mess to where of all things the golf club manufacturers and course owners are squealing.
The chain of events is pretty easy to follow right back to lending institutions with their no money down adjustable rate lending practices to people who make 15 grand a year to go in waaaay over their head for a new home, then three years later when the rates came due, holy shit!. Follow that up with piss poor refinancing practices. An example, There is a small house 750 sq feet adjacent to some of my property that came up for auction last summer. It has'nt been lived in for ten years or so now. It appraised at a bit over 12,000 dollars. I placed a respectable bid which did not pass. Come to find out it had been refinanced by a bank for 58,000. :Smug: NO where in this 1/2 acre plot with a basically unfinished cabin was that kind of equity. Multiply that by hundreds of thousands? more? times around the entire country.
In regards to the private jets which are smaller lears.. the hypocrisy of the politicians when they grilled the CEO's about flying in is a good chuckle indeed. Nancy Pelosie decided her Lear Silver Eagle was'nt enough to fly on tax payers money to and from California, so she charters a 747 now. Hmm.
700 billion free bailout to sit on or a 34 billion dollar loan to potentially save over 3 million jobs and help stop what would be a total melt down. Sure let them go bankrupt. You think it's bad now just wait. Maybe Lord Messiah Dead Winter will save us all in his magical Ford station wagon.
Now, we can go round and round all week about the other shit and hurl shit at each other (which I find quite amusing, actually, when you get your panties in a bunch), but this brings up a good point. However, I'd still say you're misguided. Not wrong, just misguided. A CEO of a fucking automobile manufacturer begging the American people for a bailout while keeping a FLEET of lears is bullshit. Do you know why politicians get away with it? BECAUSE THEY'RE RUNNING THE FUCKING COUNTRY. Nancy Pelosi (without the "e", genius...) has a 747, and do you know why? BECAUSE SHE'S THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE. She's third in line from the Presidency, and you're telling me that she doesn't deserve better treatment for having a hand in making international policy for the most powerful nation the world has ever seen, instead of some bunghole CEO who needs a FLEET of learjets just to shake hands around the country? Wake up, man. If you've ever left the US you obviously never left the hotel room.
700 billion free bailout to sit on or a 34 billion dollar loan to potentially save over 3 million jobs and help stop what would be a total melt down. Sure let them go bankrupt. You think it's bad now just wait. Maybe Lord Messiah Dead Winter will save us all in his magical Ford station wagon.
I hope they go bankrupt. I hope they get fucked and end up in the fucking streets. WE DON'T NEED THEM ANYMORE. They're too big, too inefficient, too UGLY, and completely USELESS. I think the big three should keep making muscle cars and trucks and that's about it. Let's be serious...for $40,000, would you rather buy a Mercedes or a Cadillac? I'll take the Mercedes any day.
Meltdown? Maybe in Michigan...again, sucks to be you. Your people shoulda thought of that before they started fucking people for the last, oh, 30 years. No one has been buying your shitboxes for the past 5 years, so why do you think this is going to change anything?
Look, I LOVE musclecars. I drool when I see them, but we're not talking racing or horsepower or torque of any kind. We're talking about Joe Blow who has a family and needs to get to and from work and go to Little Timmy's soccer game. Now, would this insurance salesman/teacher/plumber/electrician (take your pick) choose a car that's going to last for about 150k miles IF he's lucky, suck fuel like a beast and have a measly 36k mile warranty, or would he choose an import that has everything he wants and more? It's basic consumer needs, and the corporations whose cocks you have in your mouth have been neglecting this guy for years. Now they're getting their comeuppance and I'm glad of it. I hope they starve to death.
You want a job that pays less but is guaranteed? Again, move to Europe. You're in a capitalistic society for a reason: to make money. When the money stops, don't start yer bellyaching when your job ceases to exist as well. You had no problem reaping the benefits, now reap the repercussions.
Yes, moving over here gave me great insight to things like languages and global economics, and do you know why? Because I'VE LIVED ALL OVER THE WORLD, I didn't just fly in for some rally out in the middle of fucking nowhere with a bunch of grease monkey retards. So I guess every two years moving to another country and exploring the world tends to have that effect on people. Also being able to speak and understand clearly several languages helps as well with the whole dialect thing you brought up. How many languages do you speak besides neo-conservative fanboy? Thought so. Stick to what you know, Mr. Shadetree Mechanic. I never said you didn't know anything about engines and racing, I just said you have no idea about what else is out there as far as choice goes and the innovations across the pond. As long as you stick with Germany and France, you pretty much can't go wrong aside from the latest VWs. You think it's bad now? Wait until more Americans realize just how much better and more reliable Euro cars are to American cars. Why haven't they taken over yet? Well, for one, THEY'RE IMPORTS. Did you ever wonder why a POS BMW costs 40k in the US and 25k over here? Even though there are Euro plants in the US, they jack up the prices because they are considered luxury cars, when a BMW in all actuality is a POS that people buy because they want to appear wealthy when they're only middle class. Another reason is that millions of Americans are just like you; heads firmly planted in rectum screaming, "IF IT WEREN'T FOR US YOU'D BE SPEAKING GERMAN RIGHT ABOUT NOW!". I never understood why they say "us" over something that happened over half a century ago.
I used to be just like you. Amurricun-made all the way, until I saw the abyss of difference in the innovation and reliability in the past 5-6 years or so while being over here. The difference between us now is that I've already pulled my head out of my ass.
Again, American trucks cannot be touched, which is why I think auto companies should just stick to muscle cars and trucks.
Liverslapper
w00t
I'm like the Incredible Hulk of posting. It's always way over-the-top and sometimes even unnecessary to be so callous and in your face, but it's kinda fun. It's always good for a chuckle.
Some people have punching bags to relieve stress and some people have jogging and working out. I play with my dog, play my guitar, and post on the Neverboard.
I don't want to say that you shouldn't take it seriously, because I'm usually not joking, but I'll admit some of it's done for impact. It's entertaining. Even the people who can't stand my style of posting end up reading it later just to see what all the fuss was about.
My only regret is that it can give ppl a bad impression. I'm just an intense guy, can't help it. Quite shy and prefer solitude, but intense nonetheless.
When I read El Stormo's critique of himself, it was like a mirror image of me. It was everything I had ever tried to describe about myself without knowing how, and it woke me up to my little idiosyncratic behavior. Especially the part when he mentioned something about feeling compelled to fix a situation whether someone wanted it or not. It's not necessarily a person I'm trying to win over, per se, but instead if I have gotten my point across I feel I've done my duty. If the guy says, "I understand what you're saying and I disagree but I see where you're coming from", I leave it at that. It just starts to get fun when all the shit slinging and name-calling starts that I really unleash. That's just for pure entertainment and impact or shock value.
Some people have punching bags to relieve stress and some people have jogging and working out. I play with my dog, play my guitar, and post on the Neverboard.
I don't want to say that you shouldn't take it seriously, because I'm usually not joking, but I'll admit some of it's done for impact. It's entertaining. Even the people who can't stand my style of posting end up reading it later just to see what all the fuss was about.
My only regret is that it can give ppl a bad impression. I'm just an intense guy, can't help it. Quite shy and prefer solitude, but intense nonetheless.
When I read El Stormo's critique of himself, it was like a mirror image of me. It was everything I had ever tried to describe about myself without knowing how, and it woke me up to my little idiosyncratic behavior. Especially the part when he mentioned something about feeling compelled to fix a situation whether someone wanted it or not. It's not necessarily a person I'm trying to win over, per se, but instead if I have gotten my point across I feel I've done my duty. If the guy says, "I understand what you're saying and I disagree but I see where you're coming from", I leave it at that. It just starts to get fun when all the shit slinging and name-calling starts that I really unleash. That's just for pure entertainment and impact or shock value.
