Electric guitar break-in ? Getting 2 guitars to sound the same.

[Djabthrash]

Hi guys,

i just bought this new guitar, a schecter hellraiser FR Blackflame LTD, which is like the Schecter Hellraiser C1-FR i already have except that the pup's have also a single coil mode via push-pull, and the guitar finish is different.

My main goal is trying to have my new schecter as a spare guitar and sound as close as possible to the old one (which is supposed to be very possible since they're almost the same model), which for me has a perfect tone.

Still, after putting some new strings on that new schecter and setting it up like my older hellraiser (adjusted the string action, pickup height, truss rod) and tuned it after leaving some time for the neck to get used to the new tension, i've found that my new schecter is a bit too dark/muddy and not clear/bright enough compared to my old one.

http://proguitarshop.com/store/guit...schecter-hellraiser-fr-black-flame-ltd-p-3283
http://proguitarshop.com/store/guitars-schecter-guitars-c-1_29/schecter-hellraiser1-fr-blk-p-2327

I A/B-ed them directly, playing with the same pick into the same signal chain, listening on some decent monitors (focal cms 65).

The guitar strings are the same (same brand, same gauge), but on my older schecter the strings are almost 6 months old whereas they are brand new on my new schecter (i just put them in).
If i'm not mistaken, new strings should sound brighter/clearer than old strings, which would be muddy/dark-sounding in comparison, right ?

Also, i adjusted the new guitar pickup (EM81 on the bridge) height again (previously it was set up exactly like my old schecter) to leave a bit more space between the low strings and the pup, hoping that the tone would get brighter/clearer and less bassy/muddy. It made a little difference (which makes sense since less distance should result in a warmer tone), but it's still not like my old Schecter. Now the pup to string distance is a bit more important on my new schecter than on my old, and i don't want to push it any further since it would be overkill i guess, and be detrimental to my tone.

So i was wondering :

- For you guys who have two identical guitars, have you ever managed to have them sound identical through your rig ?

-Is that even possible ...?

-... considering the specs are the same but maybe :
*the wood difference (even if it's the same "type" of wood) could result in significant tonal differences
*my bridge pickup, in humbucker mode, is a emg81TW that has a single-coil mode when you use the push-pull, but is supposed to be the same on humbucker mode than a regular EMG81 (which is on my old Schecter).
*even considering the two pickups (EMG81TW vs regular EMG81) are the same, should they sound identical (in a "2 same amps (brand, model, year, tubes) would not sound identical" way) ?
*my old schecter EMG 9v battery is still fine, but still older than the new battery in my new guitar... could that result in such a tonal difference (old = bassier/muddier; new = clearer/brighter) ? As far as i know, a dying EMG battery results in a undergained tone (like having the pup gain know turned way down)

-Finally, is there such a thing as a "guitar break-in" for an electric guitar ? I've read such things for acoustic guitars, like the guitar would "open up" after some time... Have you ever experienced that or is it bullshit ?
Maybe that "break-in" happened on my older guitar, making it sound brighter/clearer in the end, which is what i'd like for my new guitar also...
Here is what've read on another forum :
"http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/187567-my-guitar-just-dark-sounding.html

"Sometimes it is a matter of breaking the guitar in.It is a brand new 2009 model with not a lot of history on it.I've noticed how guitars start to open up tonally after a while of steady playing.The wood starts to work with the constant vibrations it is recieving and starts to resonate more openly.The frequency range gets extended and more dimensional.I had a Strat that,when brand new,had the muddiest,deadest big E string...dull and lifeless.After a few years though of steady gigging,that same E string is now very twangy and alive.You might just need to 'wake' up your guitar's resonance and bring it to life.The treble and high mids you desire are probably still dormant!!!"

Gonna post some A/B samples later.

EDIT : I recorded a comparison (old schecter vs new schecter vs new schecter w. adjusted amp settings (bass : -1,5; mids : -0,5; treble : +2) vs new schecter w. adjusted amp settings & more gain (gain : +0,8)), recording a series of 3 riffs, sloppy as fuck and not the exact same performance at each take but you can still get the idea :

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15008135/othermixes_all/OldVsNewSchecterComparison_20110819.zip

(Signal chain is : Guitar -> Engl SE 6L6 Chan 3 Hi Gain mode (noise gate on) -> Two Notes VB 101 (Engl Cab w. V30; Blue Dragonfly Condenser mic, Close miking; post-EQ : low cut@103Hz, various boosts/cuts) -> DAW (Reaper) with post-EQ (small boost @5khz for bite; high cut @ 12khz))

My favourite tone is the old schecter. The new one sounds more dull/bassy/muddy/darker/unclear/more dry/less sharp/less bitey in comparison.
Adjusting the amp EQ made things better, but even with that and a bit more gain it's not as good as the old schecter clip IMO, even if it's quite decent.

 

[Mago]

EMG 81-TW and EMG81 don't sound the same I think.
Haven't tried it in the same guitar yet, but I think I once heared a test or talked to someone who did, and he said that the 81-TW hasnt as much of THE tight EMG81 sound.

That's the same I feel about in my 2 mahahony guitars. The 81 is tighter, but the 81tw is fatter (muddier if you want, altho its far from beeing really muddy)

edit: oh and a dying battery results in a lot more clipping from the preamp, as I painfully experience once
not possible to get a full and decent sound out of that

 

[Djabthrash]

EMG 81-TW and EMG81 don't sound the same I think.
Haven't tried it in the same guitar yet, but I think I once heared a test or talked to someone who did, and he said that the 81-TW hasnt as much of THE tight EMG81 sound.

That's the same I feel about in my 2 mahahony guitars. The 81 is tighter, but the 81tw is fatter (muddier if you want, altho its far from beeing really muddy)

edit: oh and a dying battery results in a lot more clipping from the preamp, as I painfully experience once
not possible to get a full and decent sound out of that

OK thanks for your input Mago ! I remember reading about those two pickups not sounding identical on this forum but i ended up remembering the "i call bullshit on that" comment and the official EMG info that says they're identical.
EDIT : found the threads again : http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/equipment/573000-emg-81tw-emg-81-comparison.html
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/equipment/569405-has-anybody-tried-emg-81tw.html

Thanks to you then, that would explain the difference in tone (i guess i will have to adjust my amp/post-eq settings a bit when switching from my old schecter to my new schecter).
It kinda sucks because "more bass and less clarity/brightness" is the last thing i want in my tone, and i loved the idea of having the 81 (which i love) with a single coil mode for more versatility (twangy and clean tones that is, which were kinda hard to nail with a regular 81 in a mahogany guitar).

By the way, what's your take on the whole "guitar break-in" thing ?

 

[Mago]

haha of course it was a test on this forum that I read/heared about that, what else could it have been

yeah I also love the emg81, but I also love to have a "milder" version of it in another guitar, altho I rarely use the singlecoil in the bridge.
clean tone of the 81 in the bridge is something I'm also not huge into tbh...alsways using the 89 in singlecoildmode in the neck for it.

Can't say much about the guitar break in thing, as my newest guitar is from 2004, and with 17years I didn't really have the experience to say anything about it
All I know is that when I played/recorded with new guitars from buddies I never felt like they needed to settle or that I missed some of their tonal qualites, also compared to other older guitars.

 

[Djabthrash]

haha of course it was a test on this forum that I read/heared about that, what else could it have been

yeah I also love the emg81, but I also love to have a "milder" version of it in another guitar, altho I rarely use the singlecoil in the bridge.
clean tone of the 81 in the bridge is something I'm also not huge into tbh...alsways using the 89 in singlecoildmode in the neck for it.

Can't say much about the guitar break in thing, as my newest guitar is from 2004, and with 17years I didn't really have the experience to say anything about it
All I know is that when I played/recorded with new guitars from buddies I never felt like they needed to settle or that I missed some of their tonal qualites, also compared to other older guitars.

Alright thanks !

 

[Flat Fifth Fury]

Variances in wood make matching guitars just about impossible. I remember once being in Guitar Center and there was a guy who was baffled as to why two brand new, same model, Stratocasters sounded so different. The only visible difference was the color, one red and the other green. Even unplugged you could hear that the green one was snappier and more alive than the red one. He liked the color of the red one but bought the green because it sounded better. But in your case realize that what you have now is two guitars that play well and give you some sonic breadth. I have the same issue and use one guitar mainly for rhythm tracking because it's very full and punchy and another mainly for solos because it's clearer and more articulate with single notes. However if playing live both sound and play great.

 

[Djabthrash]

Variances in wood make matching guitars just about impossible. I remember once being in Guitar Center and there was a guy who was baffled as to why two brand new, same model, Stratocasters sounded so different. The only visible difference was the color, one red and the other green. Even unplugged you could hear that the green one was snappier and more alive than the red one. He liked the color of the red one but bought the green because it sounded better. But in your case realize that what you have now is two guitars that play well and give you some sonic breadth. I have the same issue and use one guitar mainly for rhythm tracking because it's very full and punchy and another mainly for solos because it's clearer and more articulate with single notes. However if playing live both sound and play great.

Thanks i guess that's what's going on with me as well (the wood / "2 identical guitar models won't sound identical" thing), in addition to the pickup tone difference as well.
I feel like i would use the old one for tracking rythm, and the new one as a spare (in a live setting, adjusting the amp EQ a bit (dropping the bass, raising the gain and treble a tad)) and for cleans/twangy/low gain stuff in the studio.

I recorded a comparison (old schecter vs new schecter vs new schecter w. adjusted amp settings (bass : -1,5; mids : -0,5; treble : +2) vs new schecter w. adjusted amp settings & more gain (gain : +0,8)), recording a series of 3 riffs, sloppy as fuck and not the exact same performance at each take but you can still get the idea :

(Signal chain is : Guitar -> Engl SE 6L6 Chan 3 Hi Gain mode (noise gate on) -> Two Notes VB 101 (Engl Cab w. V30; Blue Dragonfly Condenser mic, Close miking; post-EQ : low cut@103Hz, various boosts/cuts) -> DAW (Reaper) with post-EQ (small boost @5khz for bite; high cut @ 12khz))

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15008135/othermixes_all/OldVsNewSchecterComparison_20110819.zip

My favourite tone is the old schecter. The new one sounds more dull/bassy/muddy/darker/unclear/more dry/less sharp/less bitey in comparison.
Adjusting the amp EQ made things better, but even with that and a bit more gain it's not as good as the old schecter clip IMO, even if it's quite decent.

 

[BLUElightCory]

Variances in wood make matching guitars just about impossible.

Exactly this. Go to any guitar store and play two identical guitars, and 9 times out of 10 they'll sound noticeably different. Wood being an organic material, every guitar made out of standard tonewoods is going to be somewhat unique, though obviously similar designs/models still share similar characteristics.

This is why it's never ideal to buy guitars and basses online - it's always better to play them in person, because you'll have a much better chance of getting a good one.

 

[Djabthrash]

Exactly this. Go to any guitar store and play two identical guitars, and 9 times out of 10 they'll sound noticeably different. Wood being an organic material, every guitar made out of standard tonewoods is going to be somewhat unique, though obviously similar designs/models still share similar characteristics.

This is why it's never ideal to buy guitars and basses online - it's always better to play them in person, because you'll have a much better chance of getting a good one.

Cool ! Exactly the kind of info i wanted to know ! It made sense but i wasn't sure if it would make an actual noticeable tonal difference or not.

EDIT : Actually i tried playing both guitars unplugged, and even despite the "new strings vs old strings" difference you could tell they sounded different, and i guess a tonal difference when playing unplugged results in a even bigger tonal difference when plugged into an amp.