Eluveitie and DT

[stizzleomnibus]

I did a quick search, and it looks like no one has mentioned this yet. I noticed this in my first run-through of the new Eluveitie album, but didn't think much of it until I saw this video:



Interesting? I think so. I'm guessing either tribute or happy accident (I know I've had a lot of melodies stuck in my head that turn out to be from DT songs I haven't listened to in ages).

 

[Defiance]

Haha one more reason why new Folk Metal bands pretty much suck . They definitely copied it, I wonder if legal actions could be taken.

Dragonland also has one melody in a song that is exactly the same as Lethe.

 

[stizzleomnibus]

Personally, I find Eluveitie to be awesome. Obviously, they owe a ton to the melodic death metal that preceded them. It's more likely a nod in DT's direction.

As for legal action, what's the point? It was probably meant well (or accidental), and it hardly harms the commercial viability of DT's music. I doubt anyone's buying or not buying a 13 year old album based on the fact that they can get one identical riff in a new album. I also doubt anyone's going to buy the new Eluveitie album specifically for that riff (Lugdunon is the high point on the album anyway). It's highly unlikely that this was an act of ill-intentioned plagiarism.

 

[Defiance]

Ah of course, but if you read carefully I say 'I wonder if legal actions could be taken', I certainly don't see a point in suing them. I just want to know if there's a legal basis to do so.

Eluveitie is OK, one of the few decent ones of all the new Folk ones. Finntroll is much better .

 

[VaSA]

When I saw the title of this thread, I already knew what it was about. I noticed that similarity in riffs, also I liked Eluveitie's "Spirit" and moderately enjoyed "Slania" I'm kind of disappointed with their new album. Apart from ripping off that DT riff, in some places they re-use ideas from their previous albums.

 

[stizzleomnibus]

Well, in the US we just hand the Wank-fest Royale of Joe Satriani vs. Coldplay vs. Cat Stevens. All over one supposed borrowed melody (there's a very finite number of melodies, you know). You can read about it here.

Of course, for the reasons I stated (commercial viability), anyone borrowing just a little bit of someone else's composition would have a good fair use claim. However, our courts have ruled that there's no such thing as fair use with regards to audio, so lifting the recorded riff would get you in trouble. You just have to re-perform it.

IANAL, though.

 

[Defiance]

Well, in the US we just hand the Wank-fest Royale of Joe Satriani vs. Coldplay vs. Cat Stevens. All over one supposed borrowed melody (there's a very finite number of melodies, you know). You can read about it here.

Of course, for the reasons I stated (commercial viability), anyone borrowing just a little bit of someone else's composition would have a good fair use claim. However, our courts have ruled that there's no such thing as fair use with regards to audio, so lifting the recorded riff would get you in trouble. You just have to re-perform it.

IANAL, though.

Ah yeah I'd forgotten about that, how did it end? Did Satriani win?

 

[stizzleomnibus]

When I saw the title of this thread, I already knew what it was about. I noticed that similarity in riffs, also I liked Eluveitie's "Spirit" and moderately enjoyed "Slania" I'm kind of disappointed with their new album. Apart from ripping off that DT riff, in some places they re-use ideas from their previous albums.

Yeah, the new Eluveitie is very consistent with past releases. I'm wondering how much range there is to their style. Slania was awesome, Evocation I was a bizarre mistake (really, acoustic metal? it's just folk with growling). It looks like their next album is going to be Evocation II, and we can only hope that it's nothing like Evocation I. The new one is at least metal, but very...meh. Lugdunon is sweet as fuck, though.

Ah yeah I'd forgotten about that, how did it end? Did Satriani win?

I think the link I posted mentions a settlement, so it never got to a jury. He probably got paid though. Either way, it's stupid. Artists couldn't get their jobs done if they didn't borrow, whether small techniques, chord sequences, or whatever. It's all about the final product, and this insistence on getting paid for every little idea you ever came up with is just obnoxious.

 

[Defiance]

I think the link I posted mentions a settlement, so it never got to a jury. He probably got paid though. Either way, it's stupid. Artists couldn't get their jobs done if they didn't borrow, whether small techniques, chord sequences, or whatever. It's all about the final product, and this insistence on getting paid for every little idea you ever came up with is just obnoxious.

Ah sorry I didn't see the link. I guess you're right, you can't really invent many new melodies nowadays, it's kind of senseless to sue because of that.

Of course, you can still take legal action against someone if he/she is using a band logo without permission. Like Ozzy is doing with Iommi now. (I'm not sure what exactly Ozzy is suing Iommi, I guess Sharon is behind everything .)

 

[Maxim1110]

I also like Eluveitie a lot, and I absolutely knew there were similarities. Vocalist Chrigel Glanzmann doesn't keep the fact that he's a fan of DT (and the whole Gothenburg scene, for that sake) a secret as it's on their website. Just listen to the riff in (Do)minion or Bloodstained Ground, those are riffs that could've been on Slaughter Of The Soul.

But it may indeed be coincidential. I had that once, I though of something when playing guitar and wrote it down. A few weeks later I was listening to a DT song (don't exactly remember which one) and I was like "what the hell, this is what I wrote a few weeks ago." So such things can happen I guess, and it's obvious you hear elements of DT in Eluveitie: DT is one of Glanzmann's major influences. Riffs could alike, or almost alike, but DT combines this with more electronic or keyboardish elements, whereas Eluveitie uses more folk instruments.

 

[El Yeti]

I´m a fan of Eluveitie, and I recognised the Hedon riff on the song the first time I ever listened to it.

I believe this is some kind of tribute, because knowing that both Chrigel and Ivo are big time fans of DT (both of them claim that The Gallery is their fovourite album ever) I think it is impossible for them to not notice that the riff on that song sounds EXACTLY like Hedon. Not even the guitar riff, but also the drum pattern and the kind of whispered vocals.
Maybe they wrote a pretty similar riff and noticed it, so they decided to pay some kind of "tribute" to their favourite band.. that´s only my guess, maybe it´s just a rip off and I´m trying to convince myself that pro musicians don´t do that

 

[Matse]

Good musicians don't rip off other artists. They quote them

 

[Maxim1110]

Well there was this quote like "rather steal something good than create something bad."

 

[Darth Grimby]

Dark Tranquilleitie? What is the correct pronunciation of Eluveitie anyhow? I kind of say it like "Ell-oo-vay-tee"

 

[stizzleomnibus]

Ell-vay-tee (Ho ho ho!!!)

 

[Defiance]

Dark Tranquilleitie? What is the correct pronunciation of Eluveitie anyhow? I kind of say it like "Ell-oo-vay-tee"

Seems correct, I usually pronounce it like that. Although instead /vay/ I say /vεy/ .

 

[stizzleomnibus]

You dare challenge the majesty of the wiki gods? Eluveitie.

And lame for no one getting my awesome joke. It's from the first few seconds of the demo version of "Uis Eluveitie."

 

[Gromdrums]

The riffs draw a lot of inspiration from the Gothenburg scene as mentioned earlier. Mostly, they sound a lot like Dark Tranquillity. Unfortunately, if the band were to strip away the folk elements, this band would just be a Gothenburg copycat, on this album anyway. It is the folk elements that help this band stand out. That's what makes this band different. Unfortunately, if they do not improve, the folk elements will not be enough to ensure them of a long career.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Personally, I find Eluveitie to be awesome. Obviously, they owe a ton to the melodic death metal that preceded them. It's more likely a nod in DT's direction.

As for legal action, what's the point? It was probably meant well (or accidental), and it hardly harms the commercial viability of DT's music. I doubt anyone's buying or not buying a 13 year old album based on the fact that they can get one identical riff in a new album. I also doubt anyone's going to buy the new Eluveitie album specifically for that riff (Lugdunon is the high point on the album anyway). It's highly unlikely that this was an act of ill-intentioned plagiarism.

Agreeed here...

 

[stizzleomnibus]

Holy crap this thread. I have to amend certain statements that I may have made. Eluveitie is an absolutely incredible band, and Everything remains... was an excellent album just like the others, and a great evolution of the sound. I no longer find the Evocation thing to be a silly side project, as the first was actually really good (they've said they're doing a metal one next anyway, but II will be pretty good when it happens).

Also, Eluveitie as a copycat band? Fuck no! Through continuous listening, it is quite clear to me that many elements of this band are unique from a metal standpoint, as well as elements unique to the folk aspect. Their drummer is one of the most interesting and exciting in the genre (I point to The Bloodstained Ground as proof). Some of the texture and dynamic that comes from flutes, being breath-controlled, is completely unique. Further, the folk melodies have a much wider pitch range, with rapid swings that add incredible energy and drama to the music (Setlon, Cauldron of Renascence, and Bloodstained Ground again).

There are even some crafty progressive elements. There's right after the intro to Lugdunon, it switches to 6/4 (on the measure where the intro bleeds out, there are six beats; this continues through the verse). There are two melodies in the verse, one of which is a single 6/4 measure long and repeats four times. The is a much longer, free-form sounding melody of two 6/4 measures which repeats twice. Totally different feel.

In short, I take back everything less-than-stellar I ever said about the band and I will say simply that they are a first-class metal band that belongs in the pantheon of bands such as DT, Amon Amarth, Ensiferum, etc...