FAQ: Live shows with backing tracks - HOW TO?

[Forceps]

That's exactly how we work... small mixer, drummer has click, samples and monitor on seperate tracks. He also has a programmable metronome for the songs without backing tracks.

Maybe this is what you could use, Dan:

http://www.thomann.de/es/samson_smonitor_personalmonitor.htm

 

[DanLights]

That's exactly how we work... small mixer, drummer has click, samples and monitor on seperate tracks. He also has a programmable metronome for the songs without backing tracks.

Maybe this is what you could use, Dan:

http://www.thomann.de/es/samson_smonitor_personalmonitor.htm

Hey that sounds like a nice solution, thanks man!

Yeah, with my cover band since only a few songs have backing tracks, the drummer has his own metronome thingy with the setlist in order (no tempo changes within songs, in a rock and roll cover band it´s rarely needed, and if it is we just play that one without a click) also connected to the mixer. We are running out of inputs in his mixer though

 

[DanLights]

Hey guys, someone mentioned using midi to control lights, I find this very interesting but have absolutely no idea about how that goes, anyone with experience on this could give some insight, perhaps?

 

[outbreak525]

Call me dumb, but I need to know how to get the metronome exported as the right speaker after I pan everything else left.

 

[JonWormwood]

Hey guys, someone mentioned using midi to control lights, I find this very interesting but have absolutely no idea about how that goes, anyone with experience on this could give some insight, perhaps?

We've played ~70 shows with hardware called DMXIS, which is MIDI to DMX. It's only ~250usd. It controls a digital light controller via MIDI (just faders and/or x/y axis for rotating fixtures)

 

[anotherpaul]

Holy necrobump, Batman!
Hey guys, i've got a little dumb question. I would like to use the "Setup 1" with mp3 player and minijack->2 mono RCA cable, but i don't have a DI box, but i have this little guy:
http://hasznaltelado.egyszeru.net/kepek/xenyx1.JPG
How should i route the signals through it and what other cables/cable adapters are necessary to give a headphone output to the drummer (which i suppose has to be a stereo out, otherwise the click would be only in 1 ear, amirite?) and a mono out to the FOH?

 

[DanLights]

Holy necrobump, Batman!
Hey guys, i've got a little dumb question. I would like to use the "Setup 1" with mp3 player and minijack->2 mono RCA cable, but i don't have a DI box, but i have this little guy:
http://hasznaltelado.egyszeru.net/kepek/xenyx1.JPG
How should i route the signals through it and what other cables/cable adapters are necessary to give a headphone output to the drummer (which i suppose has to be a stereo out, otherwise the click would be only in 1 ear, amirite?) and a mono out to the FOH?

Those mixers don't have pre-fader aux sends, so if you use the aux, it will change volume in FOH if the drummer adjusts it in his ears, which is clearly undesirable, so you could just pan hard left and hard right and send the left output to FOH, but then it's a pain to adjust the headphone mix for the drummer. You can, but beware, I used to do that with a similar Nady mixer some years ago, and there was always a small amount of click bleed going into the monitors, apparently cross talk, it was only solved by getting a DI and separating the backing track there, thus avoiding the mixer from ever getting to FOH, the backing track goes straight from the MP3 player to the DI box and to FOH, impossible to get click into the FOH that way.

Also, in most decent venues, you'll need a DI box anyways in order to send it to FOH through a snake or whatever if the board is not right next to the stage. And, the only way I could make the drummer have a mix in both ears that way was by putting a mono plug into the headphone output so that it would be dual mono, because if not I would either get click in one ear and backing track in the other, or everything on one ear depending on how I connected it.

I recommend you get a DI box that's cheap but works fine, like a Palmer pan-01. I also use a bigger Xenyx, the one with 4 preamps, cause I send alternate outputs of everything into the drummer's ears through that, he gets his own monitor mix without depending on the venue or anyone

 

[updog]

Yeah, small headphone amps tend to have only a stereo (phones) input, I had that problem some time ago and I ghetto'ed it by using a mono 1/8" to 1/4" jack to the phones (output), essentially making it mono and sending the feed to both headphones. I don't think this is a good idea though, someone even said it could short circuit the setup or something. A small mixer is your best bet, after years of messing with things what I've done (and works flawlessly so far) is this:

Left (white) cable has the backing tracks, it goes straight to DI box, the Xlr output gets sent straight to the board, the parallel output goes into the drummer's small mixer so he can have that in his headphones.

Right (red) cable has click, goes straight to the drummer's mixer.

This method guarantees absolutely 0 click signal is possible to be sent to the main board, cause previously I would send both RCAs to a mixer and send to the board from there, but there always a small amount of click bleeding through, it seems cheap mixers don't really pan 100% perfectly or something. Still, you will need a DI anyways to send to FOH so might as well split it before the mixer so you don't have to mess with panning and possible mixups.

Plus, you could also send extra monitor feeds to the drummer, I send almost everything to my drummer, guitars and bass, sometimes even vox if it's a small gig where we control the main board. I am looking for a way to split mic signal before sending to foh so in the future we could monitor EVERYTHING ourselves without depending on anyone.

thanks for that tip, man. i've had that bleeding problem too, i'll need to try this instead.

never trust a Behringer mixer to pan properly.

 

[GeertSamuel]

Great thread, can't believe I missed this before!

 

[EugeneBY]

Great thread, thanks a lot!

 

[sk8ersick666]

apologies for bumping such and old thread but i have a question that might be obvious.

I just set this up with the Ipod and the mini jack to 1/4 inch jack splitter with the left channel (click track) going to a small mixer for the drummer.

The right channel (backing tracks that are supposed to go to the PA), does it really need a DI box?

We tested it at the rehearsal studio we practice in and it worked great just plugging in the 1/4 inch jack directly to the PA without the DI.

And I actually tested this beforehand at home with a small PA system using a pretty cheap DI box just cause thats how it was instructed on here, but it wasn't loud at all, it actually only worked when I plugged in the 1/4 inch jack. Maybe its cause it was a cheap DI box?

 

[DanLights]

apologies for bumping such and old thread but i have a question that might be obvious.

I just set this up with the Ipod and the mini jack to 1/4 inch jack splitter with the left channel (click track) going to a small mixer for the drummer.

The right channel (backing tracks that are supposed to go to the PA), does it really need a DI box?

We tested it at the rehearsal studio we practice in and it worked great just plugging in the 1/4 inch jack directly to the PA without the DI.

And I actually tested this beforehand at home with a small PA system using a pretty cheap DI box just cause thats how it was instructed on here, but it wasn't loud at all, it actually only worked when I plugged in the 1/4 inch jack. Maybe its cause it was a cheap DI box?

You don't need a DI box to make it work, coming from the iPod it's technically already line level (I doubt the iPod's output is standard line level, but close enough), but the DI is a good idea for two reasons:

1) at a show you're gonna need it as a balanced signal to be able to go all the way to the PA mixer if it's far, at least at not very small or medium sized gigs you will.

2) that way you can split the signal, the Xlr (balanced) out goes to the PA and the link or through out (or parallel, depending on the DI) to the drummer's mixer for him to control his own volume of the backing track along with the click.

Your problem of it not working can be many factors, check the pad button(s) on the DI if there are, make sure the gain of the channel is not at 0 (because it's a balanced mic level signal, you need to open up the gain before moving faders), I doubt it's because it's a cheap DI. Also, make sure you export your backing tracks loud enough, no need to peak, but by putting peaks at around -6 db I make sure I'm sending enough volume so I don't have to crank gain and faders on the PA.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

So I need a rig and have decided an ipad/ipod/mp3 setup is what I want to go with. I did a cheap laptop with a cheap interface and it sucked.

So here twas what I was thinking:

mp.3 (iphone or ipad depending)
1/8" trs to RCA red white cable (short, but will get something decent quality)
vic firth headphones (I like them)
headphone amp (not really sure what to do here, kind of need my stupid HP4 fixed, but if not something small is what I'll try to snag)
Art DI with some other cheaper DI for backup that I already own because it's cheap to replace if lost or broken.

And for getting the signal to proper line level this little device art makes:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CleanBoxPro/

Although I don't know if the DI is necessary with the device above unless long line level runs are a bad idea.


I like this idea because of how small it is. All that crap would fit in a guitar case or cymbal bag.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Y U NO tell me my setup is cool or shit?

 

[Keregioz]

So I need a rig and have decided an ipad/ipod/mp3 setup is what I want to go with. I did a cheap laptop with a cheap interface and it sucked.

So here twas what I was thinking:

mp.3 (iphone or ipad depending)
1/8" trs to RCA red white cable (short, but will get something decent quality)
vic firth headphones (I like them)
headphone amp (not really sure what to do here, kind of need my stupid HP4 fixed, but if not something small is what I'll try to snag)
Art DI with some other cheaper DI for backup that I already own because it's cheap to replace if lost or broken.

And for getting the signal to proper line level this little device art makes:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CleanBoxPro/

Although I don't know if the DI is necessary with the device above unless long line level runs are a bad idea.


I like this idea because of how small it is. All that crap would fit in a guitar case or cymbal bag.

We have a similar setting in my band only without the headphone amp. Just a cellphone to play the mp3s and a Y-cable (1/8" TRS male to 2x 1/8" TRS female) that splits left and right signal. We plug the headphones on one end and send the other to PA through a DI. I believe this is the most simple setup you can have and it gets the job done. The downsides are that the drummer hears only from the left side of the headphones and he doesn't have much control over the volume of the metronome, he maxes out the volume on the mp3 player and since he is using in-ear headphones he is able to hear in a live setting but I'm sure if he could have more volume he wouldn't mind. If you have a headphone amp you shouldn't have this problem though. One other drawback is that you are dependent on the sound engineer to adjust the volume of the backing track since you can only do it from the console.

 

[DanLights]

We have a similar setting in my band only without the headphone amp. Just a cellphone to play the mp3s and a Y-cable (1/8" TRS male to 2x 1/8" TRS female) that splits left and right signal. We plug the headphones on one end and send the other to PA through a DI. I believe this is the most simple setup you can have and it gets the job done. The downsides are that the drummer hears only from the left side of the headphones and he doesn't have much control over the volume of the metronome, he maxes out the volume on the mp3 player and since he is using in-ear headphones he is able to hear in a live setting but I'm sure if he could have more volume he wouldn't mind. If you have a headphone amp you shouldn't have this problem though. One other drawback is that you are dependent on the sound engineer to adjust the volume of the backing track since you can only do it from the console.

It definitely is super simple and compact, but the disadvantage of hearing only on one ear and not being able to control click volume is a turn off for me. Maybe to solve that problem you could get a small headphone mixer like Loren said, or one of those tiny mixers like a behringer 2 channel thingy, they have a headphone out and you can hear in stereo.

I try to keep it simple but have more control of the drummer's monitoring: with a medium mixer (4 Xlr inputs, a few more jack ones) I not only give the drummer click and backing track, but also all the other instruments to his mixer so he can control his own monitor mix completely independently without relying on sound guys at a show, we just get alternate outputs from everything, the parallel output of my bass DI box, the guitarist's AxeFx output, etc. we use a PODxt for vocal effects and can send the right output as well, so he has everything, and the equipment for this fits in a small bag: the mixer, DI box, headphones and sufficient cables.

 

[mirflee]

For me, it's the usual backing tracks with hard panned clicks and no clicks from my mobile phone to the mixer. Y cable from then on and split through my DI and mixer. Then my mixer will do most of the job, monitoring for my drummer while the DI sends the backing track to the FOH.

I'm really curious as to how some bands get away with using Stereo backing tracks for their live shows. I've always wanted to use this, mostly because lack of space, less compromise on instruments and obviously less eq-ing when you deal with stereo instead of mono. So how do they do it?

 

[DanLights]

For me, it's the usual backing tracks with hard panned clicks and no clicks from my mobile phone to the mixer. Y cable from then on and split through my DI and mixer. Then my mixer will do most of the job, monitoring for my drummer while the DI sends the backing track to the FOH.

I'm really curious as to how some bands get away with using Stereo backing tracks for their live shows. I've always wanted to use this, mostly because lack of space, less compromise on instruments and obviously less eq-ing when you deal with stereo instead of mono. So how do they do it?

Obviously with a laptop and an interface with multiple outputs instead of an iPod panned left/right.

Your way could work, but then you have click already mixed with the backing track, leaving the drummer with no chance to adjust, could be risky.

 

[mirflee]

Obviously with a laptop and an interface with multiple outputs instead of an iPod panned left/right.

Your way could work, but then you have click already mixed with the backing track, leaving the drummer with no chance to adjust, could be risky.

True. That's why I'm thinking of hard panning the clicks and backing tracks separately, left and right, split it into my mixer. That way, my drummer can adjust the click or backing levels accordingly.

If I remembered correctly but I had a problem of cross-feeding when using the above on an analog mixer. I'll give it a go again just to check.

 

[DanLights]

True. That's why I'm thinking of hard panning the clicks and backing tracks separately, left and right, split it into my mixer. That way, my drummer can adjust the click or backing levels accordingly.

If I remembered correctly but I had a problem of cross-feeding when using the above on an analog mixer. I'll give it a go again just to check.

Yeah, that cross feeding problem happened to me years ago, I made a thread about it, a very small amount of click was leaking into the PA, it could be heard at silent moments like the beginning of songs. That was 100% solved by using a DI box to split the backing track signal before plugging it into the drummer's mixer, consequently avoiding the sound going to the PA from ever going through the mixer, so it would be impossible for any click track to leak. I've probably explained that in this thread a million times already, but oh well. Hahaha.