Favorite song on A Sceptic's Universe?

[IOfTheStorm]

Oh well its a "for forum's shake" discussion

 

[batmura]

I normally wouldnt want to compare Watchtower with Spiral Architect, but implying that Spiral Architect are on a higher level both musically and technically is ridiculus. First of all because Watchtower were the FIRST playing that kind of music (they were the first progressive METAL band, dont forget that), then because Spiral Architect (who, for God's shake, i incredibly admire) were based on what Watchtower created. My opinion is that they probably wouldnt even sound the way the sound now if Watchtower didnt exist. Watchtower's rythms, melodies and riffs (even stage presence) were milleniums ahead of their time, you cant just compare them with a band that released one album (no matter how great that album is) and is heavily influenced by them. Its unfair for that band too.
About the thing on who is more technical or not (like if that matters): I dont play the guitar so i cant tell, but guitar players i know just told me that the first Spastic Ink album has the most difficult guitar parts they ever listened to.

Spiral Architect to me seems more influenced by Cynic than Watchtower. I'll never agree with the "SA are a Watchtower influenced band" comment anyway - I just don't hear it. Secondly, I feel ACU is by far superior technically than any Watchtower and SI disc I've heard. What's unfair about this comment? I believe what I hear, not what Watchtower fanbois tell me.

According to most Watchtower fans, no band is really technical anyway. Even a band like Meshuggah is ordinary to them. Too bad, cause Meshuggah would actually eat their favourite band for lunch.

ASU is quite possibly the most technically challenging disc ever put on tape. Plus, from a songwriting point of view, it easily crushes everything in its path to these ears. If you think differently, that's cool. Just don't go around calling others' opinions unfair, just cause they might not feel as strongly as you do about a certain band.

 

[nicosanchez]

Watchtower is way more technical than Meshuggah, IMHO. Of course I respect your opinion, batmura. If you want "versus" type of threads, there's plenty going on on Algo forums. But anyway, music isn't about who's more technical, is about who's more original and "emotional" in their compositions also. If you're more satisfied with Meshuggah than with Watchtower, then i'm fine with it.

 

[batmura]

nicosanchez:

I'm exactly the same way as you are. I don't care who's more technical than who, but I'll voice my opinion in a thread that discusses the possible replacement of a particular band I'm familiar with. No one has to agree or disagree with me. It'll be just one man's opinion at the end of the day. Besides, this very thread basically confirms that Watchtower has got a lot of fanbois who think there's no other band in the world that could touch them. Now, I love Watchtower and SI, as well as Spiral Architect - I'm just not a die-hard fan of any of these bands. I listen to ASC once or twice a month at best. I just think the way all those Watchtower fanbois get a hard-on when you provide them with bands that have more technical guitar players or drummers is lame. Painting Watchtower as the first prog metal band and all that jazz doesn't cut it. Give me a break. The first prog metal band? Just cause they employed complex time signatures and odd stop-start breaks? You've got to be fucking kidding me.

I recently picked up Rob Rock's new album and have been playing it a lot. It's got Bob Jarzombek on drums and Bob rules as always. I love his work. Thing is, and I'm sorry to bring it up, I don't really think he's even half as technical as Asgeir. Just as I feel someone like Buckethead or Mattias Eklundh owns Ron's every shred of soul, technically speaking. Does it really matter? Not to me. I personally enjoy Ron's playing better than Eklundh, but from what *I* hear, I'm able to make up my own mind. I don't care what Watchtower fanbois think. Plus I don't think Spiral Architect was as heavily influenced by them as most of their fanbase claims. If I don't hear it, I don't care who makes these comparisons. Asgeir could come up and say Watchtower is the very reason he started playing metal, and I'll still disagree that the stuff on ASU is Watchtower inspired. So stop acting like an album like ASU was recorded because of two obscure Tower discs that were released in the mid-80's.

Let's go back to the original question on hand. I do enjoy technical music, such as Meshuggah, Zero Hour, Garden Wall, Tandjent, and Linear Sphere, and if you go over to the SI boards, you'll see at least one deragotory comment made by Tower fans, as to how "non" technical these bands are. Well, those people are fanbois and I have nothing to discuss with them. Sorry. They'd better deal with my posts.

 

[IOfTheStorm]

Painting Watchtower as the first prog metal band and all that jazz doesn't cut it. Give me a break. The first prog metal band? Just cause they employed complex time signatures and odd stop-start breaks? You've got to be fucking kidding me.

I would like to know your opinion about who was the first progressive metal band then. Watchtower really created a new music, riffs and melodies never heard before, the most "weird metal" the world has ever seen until then (and until now if you ask me), with melodies of pure lunacy, totally unexplained rythms and riffs that wouldnt fall under any musical rule that was made until then, music that didnt compromise with anything. They REALLY marked the way for a whole new music, and im sorry you cant see it.

So stop acting like an album like ASU was recorded because of two obscure Tower discs that were released in the mid-80's.

Dont make things out of ur mind, noone said that. Read again what i said
By the way, if you think im a Watchtower fanboy (something with which i dont have a problem), i have to inform you that they are not even on my top 10 band list.

 

[Wolfenstein]

Moving Spirit is my favorite song. First of all the about beginning shallow minds made me realise that this was a special band. When they sang about Atlas Shrugged I orderd the album without even listening to the end. Adn the fading at the end about bleeding the moving spirit dry gives me goosebumps.

I had big hopes about Spiral Architect being a objectivistic band but it is the closest thing yet I suppose. It is good though that someone is sining about Ayn Rands work.

 

[lars k norberg]

Moving Spirit is my favorite song. First of all the about beginning shallow minds made me realise that this was a special band. When they sang about Atlas Shrugged I orderd the album without even listening to the end. Adn the fading at the end about bleeding the moving spirit dry gives me goosebumps.

I appreciate that you care so much for the lyrics to this song as I think these are an essential part of it. I’ve already stated this in the songwriting process thread btw.

I had big hopes about Spiral Architect being a objectivistic band but it is the closest thing yet I suppose. It is good though that someone is sining about Ayn Rands work.

If you’re as gung ho about Rand as you give me reason to believe, you should check out Rush. I’ve learned that also they mirror her work in their lyrics. In fact, in the sleeve of their ’76 release 2112, there is a “dedication” to the writer. I recommend Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures and Signals for starters.

Come to think of it; you should check ‘em out regardless, Rand or no Rand.

 

[Occam's Razor]

yesss, Rush! - it was quite a revelation to see them live for the very first time last year. It was in Frankfurt, and I guess that's where they recorded their latest DVD, too. I have never seen perfection blend so well with audible passion. Neil Peart alone would have sufficed to entertain throughout a whole night...

Unlike a lot of people, I also like their latest two albums a lot, even more than some of their 80s synth-period.

 

[Dark Lord]

It was in Frankfurt, and I guess that's where they recorded their latest DVD, too.

just to correct things... Rush's latest DVD was recorded in Brazil... called "Rush in Rio"... amazing concert
another thing, and i mean no offense here to all-time Rush fans, but i think the best album containing Rush songs is not done by Rush themselves... it's a tribute album made in their honor... called "Working Man".. and it has some of the BEST progressive musicians working on it, releasing excellent versions of Rush's best songs... some of the famous musicians working on this album include Michael Romeo, John Petrucci, James Murphy, Mike Portnoy, Michael Pinaella, Steve Morse, George Lynch, Stuart Hamm, Billy Sheehan, Deen Castronovo, Brendt Allman, Mike Baker, Devin Townsend, James LaBrie, Fates Warning... and many others... need i say more ??? why are you still reading this ??? go listen to it you idiots !!!

 

[Widderslainte]

just to correct things... Rush's latest DVD was recorded in Brazil... called "Rush in Rio"... amazing concert
another thing, and i mean no offense here to all-time Rush fans, but i think the best album containing Rush songs is not done by Rush themselves... it's a tribute album made in their honor... called "Working Man".. and it has some of the BEST progressive musicians working on it, releasing excellent versions of Rush's best songs... some of the famous musicians working on this album include Michael Romeo, John Petrucci, James Murphy, Mike Portnoy, Michael Pinaella, Steve Morse, George Lynch, Stuart Hamm, Billy Sheehan, Deen Castronovo, Brendt Allman, Mike Baker, Devin Townsend, James LaBrie, Fates Warning... and many others... need i say more ??? why are you still reading this ??? go listen to it you idiots !!!

That's good stuff, but I don't think anyone can do rush better than rush.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Nope, Rush just released a 2CD/2DVD set called "R30" and it was recorded definitely at Jahrhunderthalle Frankfurt.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Rush did not like that tribute album, by the way...

 

[Dark Lord]

Rush did not like that tribute album, by the way...

you serious??? Why???
is it because these musicians made the songs better than Rush actually performed them??... sensing a little bit of jealousy ?? ( i mean i know Rush actually wrote these songs, but.... !!!) is it cause they enhanced them to the better?? i mean, they did make the songs the same way, but better quality and more aggressive, distortion wise. The only big change they made was in the solos where every guitarist gave his own flavor/style of soloing to the songs... which was pretty cool in my opinion !!!

 

[Occam's Razor]

I would consider it pointless if people paid tribute to me although I am still alive, or in this case - active as a band.
Then, these versions are by no means "better" (what's your criterion here to say so?) than the originals. Artists usually play songs how the way they are meant to be in their own opinion. Of course, you can always find players that are technically more refined than the original artists, but the cover stays a cover stays a cover: somebody copying somebody else, as in the case of this Rush tribute.
By the way, these constellations of musicians were all more or less artificial: they were casted and obviously paid for it. I read an interview with Devin Townsend in which he confirmed this and also admitted that, even though he like and respects Rush, he would never have come to think of paying them tribute or consider himself a huge fan.

Then again, you have the interesting perspective of completely reinterpreting an original song - I think about Nevermore's "Sound of Silence"-dismemberment, or A Perfect Circle turning Lennon's "Imagine" into bleak hopelessness. Such covers make more sense to me...

Third: it would be interesting, but a rare case, if someone covered a song in a way that he distills the essence from it which the original artist failed to do for whatever reasons. Although...who would cover a not-so-appealing tune and turn it into a gem?

Anyhow - one could write books about this...also consider that a large part of today's orchestral music is based on hiccoughing the old masters, i.e. covering, reinterpreting them...

hmmm...really interesting topic, this is

 

[Etter]

i think that rush cover album is fun to hear because you can hear those guys playing those songs with alot of joy.

And the didn't all do it only for the money, Mike Portnoy and Sean Malone (who played on that album) and Jason McMaster and Paul Gilbert now have there own Rush tribute band.

 

[Dark Lord]

These versions are by no means "better" (what's your criterion here to say so?) than the originals.

My criterion here is obviously simple and straightforward... go listen to the God-damn songs and compare !!!

By the way, these constellations of musicians were all more or less artificial: they were casted and obviously paid for it. I read an interview with Devin Townsend in which he confirmed this and also admitted that, even though he like and respects Rush, he would never have come to think of paying them tribute or consider himself a huge fan.

Duhhhh !!! i mean no living musician would make a whole cover album for another band unless he was paid for it... no matter how much he loves the band!! besides, it wasn't the musicians idea to do this album, it was Magna Carta's idea, and they invited all these great progressive musicians who where somehow, more or less influenced by Rush, and Magna Carta paid them a sum of money to make it happen !!!!

Then again, you have the interesting perspective of completely reinterpreting an original song - I think about Nevermore's "Sound of Silence"-dismemberment, or A Perfect Circle turning Lennon's "Imagine" into bleak hopelessness. Such covers make more sense to me...

Well, the whole point of the tribute album was NOT to re-interpret the songs according to the vision of the musicians involved in this project... it was merely a remake for a 90's look at Rush... a way for more people, especially the newer generations, to discover the magic of Rush... and thus musicians/heroes of the 90's were asked to remake some of Rush's songs to better conform with the listening metal crowds of the 90's but with a little twist in the soloing... this way, more people will be exposed and be more acquainted with what Rush was all about back in the 70's!!!
speaking of re-interpreting songs, did you hear Adagio's remake of Led Zepplin's Immigrant Song ??? an amazing intrumental remake... give it a listen

 

[Dark Lord]

Mike Portnoy and Sean Malone (who played on that album) and Jason McMaster and Paul Gilbert now have there own Rush tribute band.

wow... that's interesting... i haven't heard about that... are they currently active trying to release something... or did they already release a tribute album?? if yes, tell me a little about it !!! ... and what's the name of the tribute band by the way?? ... by the way... HUGE lineup ...but who's Jason McMaster... i heard of him but I don't really remember anything about him !!!

 

[nicosanchez]

Jason McMaster: Watchtower vocalist.

 

[Dark Lord]

Jason McMaster: Watchtower vocalist.

oh alright , now i remember... great ... thanx for the info
some line up, eh?

 

[Etter]

wow... that's interesting... i haven't heard about that... are they currently active trying to release something... or did they already release a tribute album?? if yes, tell me a little about it !!! ... and what's the name of the tribute band by the way?? ... by the way... HUGE lineup ...but who's Jason McMaster... i heard of him but I don't really remember anything about him !!!

all the news: http://www.seanmalone.net/