Fear

[Blowtus]

Fear has long struck me as the aspect of my universe that most limits me. Although I consider myself possessed of less fear than 'the average', I still feel it's contribution to my life tends far more towards the negative. The level of fear I feel, and the level I perceive in others, seems more appropriate for a harsh, violent environment of which little prediction of the future is possible - ie, the environment in which our biological evolution as a species largely occurred.

I have pursued a number of activities with high percieved and moderate 'real' danger, and have found over time that these do a good job of bringing a less fearful perspective about in my mind, particularly in relation to the more physical aspects of life. Alcohol seems to be the best teacher (that I have found) in relation to the social / emotional aspects, it shows very strongly the benefits of a less inhibited, more passionate life, though it doesn't seem to have this effect on everyone. I guess there is some wariness of becoming too comfortable with the 'crutch' and never learning to manage (less fear) on ones own, however the 'self demonstration' is usually enjoyable enough to not worry too much

The activity that most brings home the sense of 'overcoming' fear for me is rock climbing - at no stage do I ever feel 'swept up in the moment' to the point of forgetting fear, there is always a sense of rationalising it away, pushing myself through, and the level of fear (once on the climb and committed) actually causes a greater risk of injury through the extra fatigue created by climbing slower.

It is more in the interpersonal realm that I have the sense of fear (my own and others) limiting me however - I guess the overcoming of it in the physical realm feels particularly empowering because of it's grasp on my life in other areas. While I do not 'lack' in any sense of the word, there is a feeling that life could be far richer.

The constant encroach of law, safety, and paternalism (in Australia, and seemingly many other developed nations) seems to me a possible reflection of the average person becoming more fearful, ironically I think because of less real danger in their lives to (in a sense) balance them internally.

I'd love to hear some thoughts on any of this

Do you think fear is as big a limiter, a negative, and as little a positive in our modern societies, as I suggest?

Have we somehow learnt (culturally) to place too much emphasis on pain, or is it all / largely biological?

What do you think are the most effective ways to deal with it on an individual, and societal, level?

 

[Norsemaiden]

It is odd how you get people who will bungee jump from a cliff and other pointlessly dangerous risk-taking behaviour yet they fear to approach a member of the oppostite sex to ask them out. They enjoy being scared in the first way, yet the fear involved in the second way is too much for them to take. Such a person would be a candidate for the Darwin prize.

While fear is an unpleasant emotion, the overcoming of fear is very satisfying. In some cases, instead of being limited by fear, we can take it as a challenge - as long as there is something sensible to be gained.

"Fearlessness is better than a faint heart for any man who puts his nose out of doors. The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long ago" - Viking saying.

 

[judas69]

Pain and the fear that follows is important in preventing you from further endangering yourself, although for some, that fear of endangerment is itself the motivation, as mentioned. In these types, the high is more important than the risk where the greater the risk, the greater the reward, until they die!

Rationalizing those fears holding you back is the best way to face it, which isn't to say that you must cultivate some fearless attitude towards fear itself, especially since a fearless existence is artificial if not unattainable.

 

[Blowtus]

It is odd how you get people who will bungee jump from a cliff and other pointlessly dangerous risk-taking behaviour

Is it pointless, if in some sense it contributes to a 'balancing' of internal fear reactions? Grants life a slightly altered, better perspective?

 

[Norsemaiden]

[I didn't edit the post above, it's just that the edit and quote buttons are easily confused and I should be in bed]

Is it pointless, if in some sense it contributes to a 'balancing' of internal fear reactions? Grants life a slightly altered, better perspective?

You could have a point. Going on the white knuckle rides at a theme park can also be to try and balance fear reactions in that sort of way.
Another view is that extreme forms of bungee jumps and various extreme sports are a risk taking behaviour although not in the same league as taking drugs or reckless driving. It might have an added motivation of trying to impress others, but that would most likely mean other men of the same type. Women are normally more impressed by bravery of a more constructive kind. This post is more psychology than philosophy...

 

[OldScratch]

It is odd how you get people who will bungee jump from a cliff and other pointlessly dangerous risk-taking behaviour yet they fear to approach a member of the oppostite sex to ask them out. They enjoy being scared in the first way, yet the fear involved in the second way is too much for them to take.

Fear of rejection seems to be an almost crippling issue for some people, far more so than a fear of mortality even. It reminds me of the terror many apparently have with regard to public speaking. At one time a staggering statistic floated around about how many would choose death over public speaking. It would be difficult to imagine a more severe position than that.

I cannot personally relate to either of those in any way - no fear at all. But I'll be godamned if I'm going to bungee-jump anytime soon!

 

[Blowtus]

This post is more psychology than philosophy...

Seems to me that psychology (of this entirely non technical sort anyway) is more a subset of philosophy than an entirely seperate entity... the distinction is a relatively recent concoction anyway.

 

[judas69]

..extreme forms of bungee jumps and various extreme sports are a risk taking behaviour although not in the same league as taking drugs..

If you were referring to effects on cognition and emotion, the only real difference is that a chemical is not injected into the body; instead, it is produced in response. All chemical highs (cocaine, caffeine and adrenaline in this case) stimulate the brain in a similar way and thus are all subject to abuse, addiction and withdrawl conditions. All-in-all, it's still done for that fix.

If you were referring to the component of danger, extreme sports (if you're bad at it at least) can be equally dangerous and adrenaline often induces confusion at higher levels, impairing judgment and safety.

There was a study done years ago showing the benefits of treating terminally ill patients with LSD (or similar types of drugs) to relieve them of any mental trauma. On LSD, many of the patients had mystical experiences, which again served to alleviate their fear and aid the family in coping at the same time.

 

[BornInAForest]

Greetings, I will express my opinions right now on this thread, I may go off topic:

Fear is an illusion, fear is the illusion of the absence of love, I believe to what you have called "overcoming fear", is alot complex that most think, I believe to begin to overcome fears, you must know the perfection of life, and understanding that life is an experience of experiences that you can either choose to be good, or to be bad. What some have called fear, are what I believe are the results of BELIEFS which grow when your awareness grows, and if you become aware of a certain darkness you either question it with your beliefs, or simply acknowledge that it has an absence of love and that what it is creating creates an experience that you can choose to be either negative or positive.

Your feelings are the results of your beliefs, When you change your beliefs about any particular reality or issue, you instantly also change how you feel about that particular reality or issue. This is why the interpretation (belief) you give any situation determines how you feel about it.

I believe that every experience you are experiencing as “happening” in your life are neutral, each event you experience has no innate built-in meaning, and the absence of meaning creates what you choose the expereince to be: Positive or negative.

I believe the more you become aware, the more your beliefs are tested in which you have more to acknowledge as either an absence of love and to love it for what balance it has... OR that the absence is what it is wholly, and to choose to believe and experience what YOU have chosen the meaning to be, which is negative.

 

[WeAreTheLastMen]

It is odd how you get people who will bungee jump from a cliff and other pointlessly dangerous risk-taking behaviour yet they fear to approach a member of the oppostite sex to ask them out. They enjoy being scared in the first way, yet the fear involved in the second way is too much for them to take. Such a person would be a candidate for the Darwin prize.

To be fair, these are two extremely different kinds of fear. One involves the illusion essentially of cheating death itself, and an adrenaline rush to boot. Who could resist that? The Darwin prize is for people who engage in activities of which death is an obvious consequence (i.e. not bungee jumping). There's nothing to fear there.
I think that the second is actually a more legitimate fear - the fear of societal alienation. Everyone has this fear to some extent, and I can only imagine that this experience would amplify that fear substantially.

 

[BornInAForest]

To be fair, these are two extremely different kinds of fear. One involves the illusion essentially of cheating death itself, and an adrenaline rush to boot. Who could resist that? The Darwin prize is for people who engage in activities of which death is an obvious consequence (i.e. not bungee jumping). There's nothing to fear there.
I think that the second is actually a more legitimate fear - the fear of societal alienation. Everyone has this fear to some extent, and I can only imagine that this experience would amplify that fear substantially.

In my opinion, this illusion you speak of is not fear, but an experience where its as if you get so close to passing the boundries of existence; now when you experience something that real, I believe that you dont experience fear, but a form of pure spirituality which in my opinion can be experienced as negative because we might think it is negative because there is a very deep absence of love within death, and to reply to the "fear" of societal alienation, I believe there is also another absence of love within "almost not existing" is nearly impossible, unless the person was purposly trying to avoid society and humanity.

 

[WeAreTheLastMen]

In my opinion, this illusion you speak of is not fear, but an experience where its as if you get so close to passing the boundries of existence; now when you experience something that real, I believe that you dont experience fear, but a form of pure spirituality which in my opinion can be experienced as negative because we might think it is negative because there is a very deep absence of love within death, and to reply to the "fear" of societal alienation, I believe there is also another absence of love within "almost not existing" is nearly impossible, unless the person was purposly trying to avoid society and humanity.

There might be some good stuff in there, but it's hidden by your disdain for punctuation.
I don't understand what you're saying, even a little bit.

 

[Phatal]

Fear is not necessarily a limiting factor. It is possible to live with fear but to work past said fear to acheive unspecified goal. In fact, sometimes fear can be an aid rather than a hindrance. Fear can be your friend. You have fear because your body is reacting through use of adrenaline to some unknown danger, or perceived danger. So in fact, fear is a godsend.

 

[TheAnonymous]

Fear is an evolutionary quality meant to protect us. An asnimal will stop before a raging river and refuse to cross, because it knows that it is safer to stay on that side rather than fight the current. Fear exists in all animals (at least the more advanced ones), including humans, and its purpose is to protect from potential harm.
The only problem is, humanity has almost completely overcome these physical dangers that have existed since the dawn of evolution, and now, fear is completely different. Rather than fear of death, or harm, much more common are fears of failure, of embarassment, etc. The system that once would've stopped us from climbing a tall tree now tries to stop us from asking a girl out. Our subconcious doesn't tell the difference, and so we will find our bodies working against us. This is the true problem of fear in modern life.
And still, this fear that at times prevents us from doing things that might hurt us, often indeed protects us from harm. There are so many dangers in the modern world, many of which are serious and very important, and others less so. If we would have no defense at all against these dangers, no inner voice that would tell us not to risk it, no hormones released to make us feel uncomfortable and unable to do what we want, we would be extremely vulnerable.
So it's true that sometimes our own fear betrays us, but I believe that more often that not, it is our ally, and serves us well in protecting us from harm.