Fest Attendance: Successful vs. Fun

[Dark One]

Those of us posting on this forum are certainly more biased towards being more dedicated and spending more money, and maybe that causes us to overestimate the amount to which others feel the same way. I wouldn't want to see John say "yeah, we're doing HC4, and taking your advice to triple the ticket prices", and then have 40 people show up.

While I completely understand what you're saying here, and while there may be a bit of overstating based on the diehards that frequent the forum, I honestly wouldn't worry too much about it if I were John based on what I stated earlier:

Hell, the majority of costs for most folks attending consists of airfare/hotel room/festival merch/cd's/alcohol, etc., so spending a little more for festival tickets isn't going to break the deal for the majority of attendees.

I simply can't imagine $75 ticket prices being a deal breaker for those who spend so much more just for travel, lodging and non-band entertainment/sustenance for the weekend. I think this is especially true now that the die hard (and mostly non-local) fanbase is more or less wholly established.

Jason

 

[War Ensemble]

This is a really good thread.

I agree

I just don't get the feeling that the people of MSP are substantially less "metal" than the people anywhere else, per capita.

Thanks!

How many other cities had both an Earl Root (Root of All Evil) and Don Decker (Nightfall Records)?

Do we want to take credit for Decker?

 

[JayKeeley]

So while I agree with the "raise ticket prices!" idea, I'm still a little hesitant without knowing complete details of the HC demographics.

Some rough numbers:

HC Total Headcount: ~250
Rooms booked at Holiday Inn under "HC fest rate": ~105

On average, I would say there are 2 people per room [minimum]. So let's go with 210 folks who travel in to see HC.

Yeah, you can probably give and take some numbers. Perhaps there are locals who choose to stay at the hotel. There's a whole slew of permutations here.

Assuming Jason's logic is correct -- that is, people who book flights, hotels, etc aren't going to bat an eyelid at paying $80 per ticket -- those 40 or so locals who aren't willing to fork out extra are hereby redundant.

And the truth is, some locals will pay the higher price, so we won't even lose all 40 but for arguments sake:

210 * $80 = $16,800

versus

250 * $30 = $7,500

(Was it $30 per ticket? I don't know since I sponsored.)

Either way, HC thrives on its out of towners. It's practically a private party at this point.

 

[Inazone]

Either way, HC thrives on its out of towners. It's practically a private party at this point.

Although I'm sure that any festival promoter would prefer to envision something on a larger scale, I think the private party environment is the way to go for metal. The people that attend are (usually) far more passionate about the music and sense of community than most other genres. The fact that some would even sponsor bands demonstrates that. Hell, if not for some changes in my own living situation (having to take on another roommate) I was going to offer to host a band or some show-goers at my house, just to save someone the cost of a hotel and cab fare. Oh well, maybe next year.

Like I was mentioning in another thread, I'm sure there are some untapped sponsor ideas, opportunities for authentic food, and perhaps more "community involvement" options that could add to the experience . . . and maybe the attendance levels.

 

[skyrefuge]

Rooms booked at Holiday Inn under "HC fest rate": ~105

Ah, ok, that's the exact sort of demographic data I would be looking for as an organizer. I had no idea the hotel was that well-used for HC. Then yeah, raising ticket prices probably won't have too much of effect on attendance; my main doubt was "how many HCers are really out-of-towners?", not "would out-of-towners be willing to pay a higher ticket price?" And you can even count at at least 3 out-of-town rebels like me who stayed at other hotels!

210 * $80 = $16,800

versus

250 * $30 = $7,500

Even that big dollar number is still frightfully small when divided across all the performers.

Do we want to take credit for Decker?

I mainly give him credit for opening a Nightfall Records store in Chicago in the late 90s, which was a great place to hang out, likely because Decker was 400 miles away most of the time.

Neil

 

[JayKeeley]

Even that big dollar number is still frightfully small when divided across all the performers.

I think regardless of demographics, the one thing we can all say for certain is that the HC fest tickets are drastically under-priced whichever way you slice and dice it.

 

[Reign in Acai]

Even that big dollar number is still frightfully small when divided across all the performers. l

Not every band is being paid to perform. Several of the acts volunteered to pay their own way to play in front of this esteemed contingent. The higher acts on the bill aren't making much of the way in profit either. Free hotel, ticket to the states, some booze, and a platform to have horns raised in their name.

 

[JayKeeley]

And you can even count at at least 3 out-of-town rebels like me who stayed at other hotels!

oh and I just realized that I didn't book under the HC rate, I went through hotwire dot com as did Jason. (And we had separate rooms). That's 2 plus your 3 more out-of-towners!

Let's face it, the only locals who showed up were John the promoter, Brian, and the angry barman.

 

[Maggotcrusher666]

Definitely a lack of locals at the fest. At pretty much every swordlord productions show ( which is about the only decent shows we ever get ) you see the same people for most of the shows yet very few of them bothered to come out for heathen crusade both last year and this year. Seems like only power metal and jolly folk metal is popular here. Kind of sad because station 4 was packed for paganfest and finntroll the year before and I swear we didn't have near that many people for heathen crusade.

 

[Jasonic]

Hey,
I was not at the fest, but just wanted to say that I am in agreement that if you choose to stay with an underground niche style, then you are justified in raising the price.

If a couple hundred traveled, then they would do so still with an addition of $20, let's say, to the ticket price.

I remember a couple years back, a 2-day pass to Chicago Powerfest was $50. Pretty much anyone in attendance held the feeling of, "It was worth paying $50 to see Nocturnal Rites"

Underground metal will always have a core niche audience.
I think you guys are doing everything just fine.
No need to try to compete for bands who tour regularly now.
If you do, the remainder of your line up will suffer if you spend all the sponsorship on one big band, who folks can see anytime anyhow.

Someone mentioned NIGHTFALL RECORDS in Chicago.
Was this the store on Lawrence?
I went there once, I think almost 10 years ago or so.
From what I recall, it was primarily death and black metal, though it was a huge Iced Earth poster that drew me into the store!

 

[LadyofShalott]

As a first time attendee, i found no problem with the number of people that attended. It gives a great opportunity to really meet and get to know other dedicated people, you can talk to the bands sometimes, and i believe the smaller crowd keeps the atmosphere much more friendly. it was nice to run into the same people more than once. i agree that advertising is an issue here, in chicago there are several locations frequented by metal heads, and there was no advertisement that i could tell for HC3 there, flyers and posters with a great design would help a lot if you really wanted to boost the attendance. but then again, do you really want to? it would be terrible if the glorious music HC brings would begin have the same fate as black metal is experiencing now *shivers*. yeah, raising the ticket prices would be fine, i'd pay more for it, but if its raised too much and the bands i really wanted to see cancel again, it would be a less appealing event to attend. and what about generally extended holiday weekends that no one really celebrates but has work off anyways? those are good times for a 2 day fest.

 

[Climb Thar Hill]

and what about generally extended holiday weekends that no one really celebrates but has work off anyways? those are good times for a 2 day fest.

= more expensive airfare

 

[Ars Magna]

...if you really wanted to boost the attendance. but then again, do you really want to?

The dreaded battle between want and need. It always sucks when reality has something to say about the state of metal.

 

[JayKeeley]

yeah, raising the ticket prices would be fine, i'd pay more for it, but if its raised too much and the bands i really wanted to see cancel again, it would be a less appealing event to attend.

Just buy your tickets at the last minute (or even at the door)

 

[LadyofShalott]

Just buy your tickets at the last minute (or even at the door)

no kidding

 

[aztattooedsean]

HC has done everything to avoid the commercial route, so that's why you only get the die hard fans showing up

That said, Minneapolis locals seem to be adrift. I was at Iced Earth the night before HC and aside from the fact that they could only play Station 4 (in NYC they played the Nokia Theater in Times Square), I doubt those fans had much interest in HC.

Metal Blade have done everything to commercialize Amon Amarth (MTV rotation, metal blade tour support, bobble-headed toys) so at this point they attract the same folks into the current trend of NWOJFM (Nu Wave of Jolly Folk Metal) -- Eleuvetie, Wintersun etc, that's why they get a large audience.

The HC promoters need to keep doing things EXACTLY THE SAME*. Pick the right bands, stay underground, get those artists hungry to play the US, and the die hard fans will travel in from all 4 corners.






* except raise ticket prices. (Seriously John, those tickets need to be $80 each. If you build it, they will come.)

Wintersun- jolly folk metal? Eluveitie yes, korpiklaani yes but Wintersun?

 

[JayKeeley]

Wintersun- jolly folk metal? Eluveitie yes, korpiklaani yes but Wintersun?

Wintersun = DragonForce