First SSD 3.0 full band mix!

The problem isn't in the sound of the samples, but the fact that they're already processed as in a finished mix. What you don't get is the interaction between the different channels which make it sound....fake. I've been trying to make samples sound "live" for more than 15 years, and maybe that's why I hear it so well. IMO. If you guys like it, I'm perfectly OK with that. No need to change anything.

I know what you mean, but I always need to do a bit of personal processing to get them to sit right in all of my mixes. Slates samples *snare especially* seem to like a bit of extra EQ etc. As for the "live" feel, I don't really know ill leave it up to Steven to answer that one for himself.
 
What you don't get is the interaction between the different channels which make it sound....fake.

how is that possible with samples? maybe i dont understand waht you mean by interaction between channels.
 
crilleman, you have a collection that was made for sample augmentation, that has been discontinued for a year and a half. Get 3.0, its completey new from what you have.

As for sample interaction, the way we did our overhead micing and room micing makes the drums really come alive. Its not metal but here is something I just programmed, rather sloppily with 3.0:

www.stevenslatedrums.com/demo2/process.mp3

I spent some time to make sure the room mics were eq'd to be nice and shimmery, and I compressed the kick and snare just a bit to make them sit right.

Metal mixes are a bit harder since their is more density in the guitars. I would recommend a bit less mix compression Shred, and maybe trying to add more point to the snare.. also the snare could use a bit more "air", maybe a tad more room to let it breathe.

Our NRG room, new in 3.0, really adds a sense of dimension and realism that no previous versions have had. I'm pretty psyched to hear people's thoughts on programmed drums once more 3.0 demos come out.

BTW there is a shit ton of solo drum demos at our site, check em out.

Also, leakage doesn't make drums sound more natural. In fact quite the contrary most of the time, the phase issues and off axis mic response of leakage can actually make them sound worse. What makes drums sound real is capturing them and their ambient environments in an ultra precise way. This is why our Led Zep kit with its room mics at full blast sounds like Bonham going off, because we spent a lot of time capturing the room (or in this case stone castle!) environment:

www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/04 Led Zep.mp3
 
how is that possible with samples? maybe i dont understand waht you mean by interaction between channels.

That's the point. it's not really possible with samples unless...

When you process a live recorded drum kit, all channels are separated and interact with each other. For example, Compress the snare mic to hell and the hihat can pay an annoying visit. With sample libraries that have separate channels, you can exaggerate the drum treatment to get crazy results.

The only way to get "perfect" preprocessed samples to interact with each other (like a drum machine) is to run everything through a compressor, but the sounds are already perfect, so it's a degrading process.

I hope I made myself understood.
 
Try this one: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/451140/Dirty_flange_face_crackykit4.mp3

Not sure how much better it sounds as my ears are shot for tonight, heard the thing so many times im finding it hard to get it "just right" in my head.

Raised the room mic on the snare a lot, not much master bus compression now and I wasn't sure what "point" was Steven but I assumed you mean definition so I added some more top end, hopefully it cuts through abit more.
 
I think this already sounds better... I actually just played it for a friend (a music producer) who was very surprised it was all programmed drums (he thought it was live kit with sample augmentation) so thats a good thing. The guitars are quite amazing too. Does that Revalver thingie react to different pickups?

Also, I'd love to hear this same track with GreenSnare or Snare10a.. something with a bit more CRACK... but then again I've been diggin cracky snares this past week, next week I'll love the more splatty fat snares... Either way, major improvement, well done. Overall sound is HUGE, be proud of this.
 
I think this already sounds better... I actually just played it for a friend (a music producer) who was very surprised it was all programmed drums (he thought it was live kit with sample augmentation) so thats a good thing. The guitars are quite amazing too. Does that Revalver thingie react to different pickups?

Also, I'd love to hear this same track with GreenSnare or Snare10a.. something with a bit more CRACK... but then again I've been diggin cracky snares this past week, next week I'll love the more splatty fat snares... Either way, major improvement, well done. Overall sound is HUGE, be proud of this.

Thats awsome! Really pleased, my aim was to give a good representation of 3.0 so im glad he dug it! Well its all about the DI track really, depending on what DI box you use to track it with be it with passive or active pickups makes a difference. There has been a thread about this recently, Marcus might pop up with the link....maybe :p I always use actives so those were done with that + a really distorted DI due to the lack of pads on my Saffire Pro at the time.

Ill do that mix with those snares you suggested, see how they tickle your fancy.

Did you get my PM btw?
 
crilleman, you have a collection that was made for sample augmentation, that has been discontinued for a year and a half. Get 3.0, its completey new from what you have.

As for sample interaction, the way we did our overhead micing and room micing makes the drums really come alive. Its not metal but here is something I just programmed, rather sloppily with 3.0:

www.stevenslatedrums.com/demo2/process.mp3

I spent some time to make sure the room mics were eq'd to be nice and shimmery, and I compressed the kick and snare just a bit to make them sit right.

Metal mixes are a bit harder since their is more density in the guitars. I would recommend a bit less mix compression Shred, and maybe trying to add more point to the snare.. also the snare could use a bit more "air", maybe a tad more room to let it breathe.

Our NRG room, new in 3.0, really adds a sense of dimension and realism that no previous versions have had. I'm pretty psyched to hear people's thoughts on programmed drums once more 3.0 demos come out.

BTW there is a shit ton of solo drum demos at our site, check em out.

Also, leakage doesn't make drums sound more natural. In fact quite the contrary most of the time, the phase issues and off axis mic response of leakage can actually make them sound worse. What makes drums sound real is capturing them and their ambient environments in an ultra precise way. This is why our Led Zep kit with its room mics at full blast sounds like Bonham going off, because we spent a lot of time capturing the room (or in this case stone castle!) environment:

www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/04 Led Zep.mp3

Nothing wrong with the sound of the drums, but it sounds like drums with samples on top. Sorry.

It's all a matter of taste, and I don't want to start something. It's just IMHO and as long as people are happy, nothing is wrong, simple as that.
 
I'm using Slate with Superior as you would sample replace a real kit. So I replaced the close kick mic and blended the snare. I'm liking the results much more then either alone. Pretty stoked with Slate and Superior right now! :headbang:
 
I'm using Slate with Superior as you would sample replace a real kit. So I replaced the close kick mic and blended the snare. I'm liking the results much more then either alone. Pretty stoked with Slate and Superior right now! :headbang:

I've tried the same, but I don't really like the superior 2.0 cymbals all that much... it'd be a pain to do that for just superior 2.0 and then use the slate cymbals.

wish I could still get ahold of a copy of the old superior
 
hey Joshua, I'm going to add more cymbals to a future release.. can you point me to a china you like? The china that I sampled was borrowed from Adrian Ost, a pretty popular metal drummer. Did you try tuning it or eqing it? I personally love that china sound as is. I'm really happy with the SSD 3.0 cymbals, I think they have a harmonic richness from the analog tape and gear that is lacking in most of my competitors cymbals.

Back to topic, Shred I think the drums sound great for metal.. if they sounded too raw or less consistent it wouldn't work for the track. Lets be honest here, modern metal has that consistent almost machine like drum sound.. so I think your programming works great for it.
 
hey Joshua, I'm going to add more cymbals to a future release.. can you point me to a china you like? The china that I sampled was borrowed from Adrian Ost, a pretty popular metal drummer. Did you try tuning it or eqing it? I personally love that china sound as is. I'm really happy with the SSD 3.0 cymbals, I think they have a harmonic richness from the analog tape and gear that is lacking in most of my competitors cymbals.

Back to topic, Shred I think the drums sound great for metal.. if they sounded too raw or less consistent it wouldn't work for the track. Lets be honest here, modern metal has that consistent almost machine like drum sound.. so I think your programming works great for it.

Well, I looked up the name to see which band he plays in and I wouldn't call Powerman 5000 modern metal... or even relevant to metal, atleast not compared to the kind of bands Richardson or Sneap work with or the kinds of music people on this forum play and listen to lol I'd say Powerman 5000 would be lumped in the same kind of music as like Papa Roach or something like that (I've heard you mention them before, I think), which would fall more into the radio rock/nu-metal/"alternative" kind of categorey, which really has a pretty different sound in general...

But for the china I wouldn't really know what to recommend. I play guitar and bass and write music, but I don't play drums in real life and am not micing up drum sets on a regular basis, so I'm not extremely familiar with different cymbals. I just thought it sounded a bit off/not what I'm used to... maybe a bit soft... but it's probably just because of the kind of music they were intended for... Maybe Kazrog would have a recommendation since he was talking about it too?

But for future reference, any kind of drums/cymbals/kits/etc added in the future that are more aimed at the modern metal kind of sounds like Andy Sneap/Colin Richardson production would be very cool. I think it'd have a much bigger audience than what you'd expect. Also, if you were ever wondering, a big reason the Toontrack stuff got so popular with metal players is because the drummer Thomas Haake from the band Meshuggah worked with them on making the sample collection for Drums From Hell Superior (the original Superior, not Superior 2.0), and so although the drums were raw and left to be processed however you'd like, they were very much intended for a really aggressive style and specific kind of sound... anyways, enough rambling, but I was just throwing out some info, since I know you're more into different types of music overall
 
Hey Steve, James was telling me the cymbal that's mainly keeping the beat in the first riff of the clips he posted in this thread is a china, but for the life of me I'd never believe it - it sounds like a really middy crash to me! :erk: A perfect example of what a china should sound like IMO is in the original DFH library (here's a quick clip to demonstrate). I have no idea what China that is, mind, but I love the sound of it! I'm pretty proud of that programming to ;) (though I can only take credit for transcribing it, not writing it, cuz it's an Inferno from Behemoth beat)

EDIT: And to further expand upon my china tastes, I like 'em to really just sound like a person going "AHH" (as the one in the clip I posted does)
 
Anybody have any clips of the slate stuff doing something that doesn't have that plastic quality to it? I'm not a fan of cracky drums, I like something fat with some snap ie The End of Heartache, Watershed, the Nevermore stuff etc. I'm really hoping the slate stuff has something I can actually use.
 
Anybody have any clips of the slate stuff doing something that doesn't have that plastic quality to it? I'm not a fan of cracky drums, I like something fat with some snap ie The End of Heartache, Watershed, the Nevermore stuff etc. I'm really hoping the slate stuff has something I can actually use.

you can hear all 40 kits on the website:loco:
 
Anybody have any clips of the slate stuff doing something that doesn't have that plastic quality to it? I'm not a fan of cracky drums, I like something fat with some snap ie The End of Heartache, Watershed, the Nevermore stuff etc. I'm really hoping the slate stuff has something I can actually use.

there are definitely those fat, splatty kinda drums in there. lots of them actually.