Five Former Members Of In Flames Unite In The Halo Effect

[eochaid]

Very subtle way to dodge the question.

There's no way that I'm starting a conversation that is leading to nowhere (again).

 

[ciko_gfb]

I can agree with that, especially the last paragraph. I will say though, maybe it's just because of the back to back of SoSD and TGD, but something just doesn't quite click to me with the new album so far (I say as it only has two songs out). It's just missing that In Flames melody to me. Sure, SoSD has it enough I suppose, but TGD really doesn't feel like it has what I love about the band. It's objectively good, sure (Minus lyrical issues), but it doesn't quite feel like them to me. It's melodeath, but not the kind of melodeath that In Flames was, and I'd rather us get more alt metal stuff if it means that it still feels like them. I'll try to remain optimistic for the album though because if nothing else, SoSD has absolutely been a grower.

I'm really shocked when you say TDG doesn't feel like In Flames. A big shock. If In Flames disbanded after CC and come with a reunion at 2022 TGD would be the song they released. Fast tempo, awesome melodies, harsh vocals at its finest. Let's say you didnt like any of that, OK. There's a little clean passage after the breakdown, this alone should feel like it is indeed In Flames who made this song. That clean passage is straight from Colony / Clayman era.

 

[DE4life]

I can honestly say I haven't listened to SoSD or TGD since the first few days they came out. I'm in the same boat at @Xpyro125 , the songs just don't grab me all that much. SoSD just because it's way too similar to BBF during the verses. TGD technically has all the right ingredients and isn't obviously ripping anybody off, but for whatever reason I'm just not that interested in it. Maybe simply because it sounds like a rehash of CC-era music with ITM elements mixed in, and both albums have superior songs on them so why not just listen to those if I'm so inclined?

 

[eochaid]

I'm really shocked when you say TDG doesn't feel like In Flames. A big shock. If In Flames disbanded after CC and come with a reunion at 2022 TGD would be the song they released. Fast tempo, awesome melodies, harsh vocals at its finest. Let's say you didnt like any of that, OK. There's a little clean passage after the breakdown, this alone should feel like it is indeed In Flames who made this song. That clean passage is straight from Colony / Clayman era.

Lol no.

 

[galvanized]

I really like SoSD.

To me, TGD sounds like they wrote it like a Battles song, but then recorded metal instruments and applied good production. In other words, sounds hollow.

 

[ciko_gfb]

Lol no.

You can say which parts you dont agree with and I'll come with an answer. Otherwise, I will just think that you're here to bash IF no matter what they do, even if they released TJR part 2. Or maybe, I denied the signs long enough, maybe you're just here to hate.

 

[Xpyro125]

I'm really shocked when you say TDG doesn't feel like In Flames. A big shock. If In Flames disbanded after CC and come with a reunion at 2022 TGD would be the song they released. Fast tempo, awesome melodies, harsh vocals at its finest. Let's say you didnt like any of that, OK. There's a little clean passage after the breakdown, this alone should feel like it is indeed In Flames who made this song. That clean passage is straight from Colony / Clayman era.

I really like SoSD.

To me, TGD sounds like they wrote it like a Battles song, but then recorded metal instruments and applied good production. In other words, sounds hollow.

CC has the classic In Flames lead melodies that I fucking love. TGD just... Doesn't, at least not for me. Sure, the main intro riff does, but that's about it. I do quite like the clean passage, but it's the majority of the song that I just can't get into because it doesn't feel like the In Flames I love. That being said, yeah, I do agree that I could absolutely see it being what they'd release after hypothetically breaking up after CC. I don't think TGD is a bad song. It works well in spite of its flaws, but it's just missing something for me. It feels like it's missing that one thing that would really tie it all together. Maybe that's how people felt about Reroute and STYE back in the day.

I can honestly say I haven't listened to SoSD or TGD since the first few days they came out. I'm in the same boat at @Xpyro125 , the songs just don't grab me all that much. SoSD just because it's way too similar to BBF during the verses. TGD technically has all the right ingredients and isn't obviously ripping anybody off, but for whatever reason I'm just not that interested in it. Maybe simply because it sounds like a rehash of CC-era music with ITM elements mixed in, and both albums have superior songs on them so why not just listen to those if I'm so inclined?

I've actually listened to SoSD a ton after its initial release. It didn't grab me much at first, but it's actually pretty awesome. Yes, it absolutely rips off "Blinded By Fear", and I hate that (Not how it sounds, just that that's what happened), but I fucking love the song in spite of that. It's genuinely fantastic, and it feel like some of the best of modern In Flames. Perfect choice for a lead single, especially following ITM.

 

[The Grayfox]

It's like one radical political party saying that you shouldn't listen to the other radical political party. I can admit that I am biased and probably more forgiving with Anders and Björn. Can you admit that you are equally biased with Jesper and/or against Anders? I doubt so.

@The Grayfox As for Jesper, I don't see how him beind a, or rather The founding member makes all his opinion about the band legitimate. He has the right to form his opinion about them, but when he was at his low points and lashed out like a teenage girl, then deleted those comments, you can't tell me those should be taken seriously - even if he meant that, the way he conducted himself was not proper.

It can be suspected that THE influenced the new IF record, but you can't state it as a fact, because there are equally compelling arguments against that theory. Being the loudest or the more stubborn about an argument like this won't and should not make anyone right. We are not in the parliament where our main objective is to blame the opposition (or government if we are the opposition) for every single bad thing that is happening, even at the cost of saying the exact opposite we said months ago.

So you don't think that him being the guy who literally created the band gives him more room for opinion? I'm not saying that his opinion should be taken as fact. I'm saying that he has a very unique perspective being the guy who created the band and all. His opinion about In Flames, to me, means a lot more than some dude on Instagram.

While nobody can prove what "inspired" IF's decision to go back to a heavier sound, I certainly won't take Anders or Bjorn at their word, since Anders lies all of the time. I can absolutely admit that I am more biased towards Jesper and against Anders. This is going to ruffle feathers, but my view on it (which certainly feels more cemented after Jesper said they couldn't agree on a sound) is that Anders wasn't originally part of this band, yet somehow it appears he stole it from Jesper and turned it into a pile of shit. He could've just gone off and created a new band and done whatever he wanted. Instead, he used the fact that In Flames was already established and had a fan base so that he wouldn't have to start over. Passenger is a great example. He went and did that, it didn't catch on, so... whoops, "I better use In Flames." Can I prove any of this? No, but I absolutely believe it. You can take Anders at his word and believe that he has just wanted to "mature" and "grow" with his songwriting, but I will never believe this wasn't a planned out, calculated monetary move. I hate throwing the term "sell-out" around, but it applies here. This motherfucker writes songs for money, period. It's so evident by the way he SOMEHOW manages to follow whatever trend is popular at a given time. Again, I can't prove any of this, but I do believe it.

I'm not going to take anything away from him for what he's done in the past. Yes, he is a big part of In Flames. Yes, he has been in the band for a long time. And yes, he can do whatever he wants in regards to In Flames. I'll always love those early albums. Right up until Clayman. But here's the bottom line; In Flames went from being pioneers and innovators to being followers. They inspired a wave of bands who went on to do great things. And now? In Flames is ripping off the same bands that they inspired, who did it better.

 

[Xpyro125]

So you don't think that him being the guy who literally created the band gives him more room for opinion? I'm not saying that his opinion should be taken as fact. I'm saying that he has a very unique perspective being the guy who created the band and all. His opinion about In Flames, to me, means a lot more than some dude on Instagram.

While nobody can prove what "inspired" IF's decision to go back to a heavier sound, I certainly won't take Anders or Bjorn at their word, since Anders lies all of the time. I can absolutely admit that I am more biased towards Jesper and against Anders. This is going to ruffle feathers, but my view on it (which certainly feels more cemented after Jesper said they couldn't agree on a sound) is that Anders wasn't originally part of this band, yet somehow it appears he stole it from Jesper and turned it into a pile of shit. He could've just gone off and created a new band and done whatever he wanted. Instead, he used the fact that In Flames was already established and had a fan base so that he wouldn't have to start over. Passenger is a great example. He went and did that, it didn't catch on, so... whoops, "I better use In Flames." Can I prove any of this? No, but I absolutely believe it. You can take Anders at his word and believe that he has just wanted to "mature" and "grow" with his songwriting, but I will never believe this wasn't a planned out, calculated monetary move. I hate throwing the term "sell-out" around, but it applies here. This motherfucker writes songs for money, period. It's so evident by the way he SOMEHOW manages to follow whatever trend is popular at a given time. Again, I can't prove any of this, but I do believe it.

I'm not going to take anything away from him for what he's done in the past. Yes, he is a big part of In Flames. Yes, he has been in the band for a long time. And yes, he can do whatever he wants in regards to In Flames. I'll always love those early albums. Right up until Clayman. But here's the bottom line; In Flames went from being pioneers and innovators to being followers. They inspired a wave of bands who went on to do great things. And now? In Flames is ripping off the same bands that they inspired, who did it better.

I won't lie, I don't think I entirely agree here (Though I do absolutely agree with the sentiment of the first paragraph). As far as my understanding goes, it was mainly Bjorn and Jesper who had control over the sound up until SoaPF and that, surprisingly, Anders mainly kept out of that. I'm mainly taking the couple of things I read elsewhere and what all of you guys have said here into consideration for that statement, and I could absolutely be wrong there. For what it's worth, if you wanted to say that they sold out and followed the trends when it comes to Reroute through ASoP, I won't fight you on that. I think that's absolutely possible. After Jesper left, I think Anders filled in for his role and overall leadership presence. That being said, SoaPF and Siren Charms feels like the band's most... Genuine albums, like they really put themselves and everything they are out there. SoaPF is Bjorn's album, and Siren Charms is Anders'. There was no trend-chasing there, they just followed their passion, for better (SoaPF) or for worse (Siren Charms). Battles onwards... Yeah, there's nothing to say there. They're absolutely trend-chasing because SoaPF (sadly) went over poorly with fans, and Siren Charms went disastrously in terms of reception. They probably just wanted to go the safe route afterwards, and that's how we've gotten to where we ended up. I agree with the sentiment of not believing Anders and Bjorn (For the most part), and I agree with the trend-chasing especially for the modern IF era. I don't think it's necessarily for money itself, but moreso success and validation, which does indirectly lead over to money. However, I don't believe it was something planned out on Anders' part until Siren Charms failed. We could absolutely go any which way about Bjorn though. Shit, if you told me that he never had a melodeath bone in his body, my only counterargument would be "Pinball Map". I don't think he's any sort of talentless hack- Not even close, but he is the one who consistently wanted to follow a more mainstream sound. Shit, even Anders had If Anything, Suspicious, which was a simple, completely different creative endeavor on his part, and I actually think it's some really cool stuff. I dunno, it's just clearer to me that Bjorn and Jesper were the band's two creative leaders until Jesper left, which had Anders take up his position afterwards. I'm not saying Anders wouldn't have had any influence if he didn't try to put his two cents in, but I get the feeling that he didn't do that all too much. I think he's the face of the band (Especially after Jesper left), but I think Bjorn is the one who really makes all the decisions.

That being said, Anders is fucking horrible at trying to come up with a bullshit story, and he's somehow just as bad at being honest. I'll absolutely give you that much without any sort of doubt in my mind.

 

[DE4life]

Soundtrack is the album, for me, that sticks out the most as being a trend-chasing album. It's not a bad album but the obvious pivot to a more American sound, ditching everything that made the band unique, is kind of impossible to ignore.

Battles would be the other one, obviously, but not sure what trend they were chasing there. I don't think California metal with shit production and vocals was trending particularly high then or at any other point in recent history.

 

[Xpyro125]

Soundtrack is the album, for me, that sticks out the most as being a trend-chasing album. It's not a bad album but the obvious pivot to a more American sound, ditching everything that made the band unique, is kind of impossible to ignore.

Battles would be the other one, obviously, but not sure what trend they were chasing there. I don't think California metal with shit production and vocals was trending particularly high then or at any other point in recent history.

Oh, no, it absolutely was. Alt metal was still massive, and nu metal would only resurge later in the year. Metalcore wasn't quite as mainstream as it is now (Probably 70% as much, honestly), as I think it was 2017-18 where it came full force into the same amount of popularity as alt metal. So yeah, Battles was absolutely calculated for what was really popular at the time.

And by that, I mean calculated by Benson.

 

[galvanized]

This motherfucker writes songs for money, period.

Bingo. But it’s understandable.

What I don’t understand is why All the Pain and Stay with Me haven’t broken into the mainstream yet. Because those are two amazingly well crafted songs that should be making them a lot of money. They could easily get picked up by a drama or movie. I don’t know why they haven’t yet. These songs don’t pretend to be metal, that’s why I like them.

The reason why everyone’s mad about Anders selling out is because he tries to pretend to be artsy or underground but money driven at the same time. That’s a lie. You want to make money, just make money. Write more songs like Stay with Me and stop riding the fence.

 

[The Grayfox]

The reason why everyone’s mad about Anders selling out is because he tries to pretend to be artsy or underground but money driven at the same time. That’s a lie. You want to make money, just make money. Write more songs like Stay with Me and stop riding the fence.

And this is exactly it. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make money off of your music. Go make as much as you can. Just stop trying to convince people that this isn't what you're doing.

 

[Jester Slave]

So you don't think that him being the guy who literally created the band gives him more room for opinion? I'm not saying that his opinion should be taken as fact. I'm saying that he has a very unique perspective being the guy who created the band and all. His opinion about In Flames, to me, means a lot more than some dude on Instagram.

While nobody can prove what "inspired" IF's decision to go back to a heavier sound, I certainly won't take Anders or Bjorn at their word, since Anders lies all of the time. I can absolutely admit that I am more biased towards Jesper and against Anders. This is going to ruffle feathers, but my view on it (which certainly feels more cemented after Jesper said they couldn't agree on a sound) is that Anders wasn't originally part of this band, yet somehow it appears he stole it from Jesper and turned it into a pile of shit. He could've just gone off and created a new band and done whatever he wanted. Instead, he used the fact that In Flames was already established and had a fan base so that he wouldn't have to start over. Passenger is a great example. He went and did that, it didn't catch on, so... whoops, "I better use In Flames." Can I prove any of this? No, but I absolutely believe it. You can take Anders at his word and believe that he has just wanted to "mature" and "grow" with his songwriting, but I will never believe this wasn't a planned out, calculated monetary move. I hate throwing the term "sell-out" around, but it applies here. This motherfucker writes songs for money, period. It's so evident by the way he SOMEHOW manages to follow whatever trend is popular at a given time. Again, I can't prove any of this, but I do believe it.

I'm not going to take anything away from him for what he's done in the past. Yes, he is a big part of In Flames. Yes, he has been in the band for a long time. And yes, he can do whatever he wants in regards to In Flames. I'll always love those early albums. Right up until Clayman. But here's the bottom line; In Flames went from being pioneers and innovators to being followers. They inspired a wave of bands who went on to do great things. And now? In Flames is ripping off the same bands that they inspired, who did it better.

He has more room for opinion, but lashing out on social media then deleting it is as valuable of an opinion as your average teenage drama. And he was part of that sellout process and it's high time to finally settle who pushed IF into that greedy direction. When I defended Anders' creative contributions to the r2r-stye-cc trio you corrected me that he basically had nothing to do with the sound. Now you blame him for selling In Flames out, and one may even interpret your words as such that you think poor Jesper was dragged along. Not only it seems factually incorrect due to how the writing process was, but it is hard to feel sorry for someone who is raking in the big money for years and 3 mainstream records straight, but when the magic is finally over, THAT' is the point where our hero leaves this band, because he just can't stand for greed and trends influencing his art!!! Give me a break...

I do somewhat agree that it was his band so it feels weird to be essentially fired, but if it was Anders' machinations then I doubt the band would unanimously stand with him. Also, Björn and Anders were already part of TJR, which was their real, proper first record, and after tons of sold records, tours, success and money you can't just claim sole authority of a band just because you were there first. It's not like Nine Inch Nails where it was literally one person's project, he made most of the music himself on his first record (with which he already found success) and even after that he hired session musicians for his recordings and live shows, so despite there are a ton of people who contributed to his band's sound, it was his sole project for a very long time. You simply can't compare Jesper to that level of authority over a band, when it was Jesper, Björn and Anders who were all main contributors for the records which netted them fame and success.

My headcanon is that Jesper was burned out. Whether it was solely his demons growing too big or a combination of that and possibly realizing he doesn't make the music he wants (which is weird, because he actually praised ASOP - minus the vocals) I don't know, but once you can't even count your bandmate to show up to your shows, then it becomes a drag. I do believe that his last months in IF and the long, long struggle he had afterwards is a better explanation about his departure than Anders playing some Game of Thrones shit in the background. I actually appreciate him not throwing a single shade towards Jesper, despite him going off the rails a few times about Anders. Anders is phony but I don't see him as a mean and cruel person.

You say that IF is all about the money now or for a long time now. Fair enough, but how does that explain them "copying THE" even before their album dropped to possibly see the reactions to it? Mdm is hardly a money-making machine today, SosD and TGD never had the potential to become even the next I Am Above. It just doesn't add up. They've also been playing older songs for years now. You see, I don't know if you like history, but I do, and one thing which is always annyoing when I try to search a historically accurate show, movie, book or podcast is that sensationalism sells. If we have two dots, two factual dots, then you can connect them in a myriad of ways. It takes sources and effort to know the exact way they are connected, but sometimes we have to settle with "we don't know". But many authors take creative liberties and decide to connect these dots in a way which is the most fun, ignoring scientific arguments against that, because who cares about facts when you can state something fun? This is how I feel about this issue: there are many many facts which supports the idea that IF has been warming up to their old stuff ever since the In Our House tour, but it's much more "fun" to say that they heard about THE a couple months ago so they panicked and started making songs like sosd and tgd. I can absolutely see the probability that pettiness or competitiveness was an influence from the THE project, but nothing more - and even that is already a "fun" line to draw between two dots, without too much evidence.

 

[The Grayfox]

You think Jesper was making "big money" eh? They couldn't even sell out 800 capacity venues in the States during the RTR-STYE years. They couldn't sell out The Roxy in LA, which is 500 capacity, when filming the STYE DVD (which is why it wasn't used). And I know this because I was there, just like I was at every single Bay Area show they did from 2002-onward. Things were different in Europe, yes. But they weren't just raking in cash until much later. Jesper has admitted that his mind wasn't where it should be during the early-mid 00's. He was battling addiction. So, yes, I do believe that at some point, he did snap out of it. He did start wondering exactly what the hell was going on with this band.

And I have no idea where you're getting that I corrected you about Anders not having contributed to the three albums you mentioned. I don't even really like those albums and couldn't care less what he did or did not contribute to them.

Regardless, we're not going to agree here and it doesn't matter. Let's move on.

 

[eochaid]

You can say which parts you dont agree with and I'll come with an answer. Otherwise, I will just think that you're here to bash IF no matter what they do, even if they released TJR part 2. Or maybe, I denied the signs long enough, maybe you're just here to hate.

You live in a constant state of tragedy and denial. There's nothing to talk about. If you think that the song (I don't remember the name, I don't need to) sounds anything similar to CC then there are two options. You have never heard CC. You're deaf.

 

[mindd]

Japanese bonus track.

 

[DE4life]

Finally, it took long enough for this track to leak.

Similar keys to the ones used in the Gateways instrumental section, the chorus kind of sounds like it was instrumentally inspired by 80s NES chiptune tracks. Sounds like it could be off a Mega Man game. I think this one is going to take a few listens for me to judge properly, but first impressions are positive.

 

[Xpyro125]

I won't lie, this one didn't really grab me at all. If nothing else, I can be happy enough knowing that I don't have to wonder what it's like anymore, so cheers. I'd rather it be a bonus track than cut completely, if nothing else, so this is nice, but eh. Feels like filler to me, so I'm glad it wasn't put on the standard album.

I'm just glad we didn't get the whole "Let's put the best tracks as bonus tracks which will never actually make it to any music services". Imagine if we had this on the album instead of "Gateways" or something. That'd be a fucking game changer in the worst way possible there.

 

[A88]

Interesting, melodic, but nothing special. Decent bonus track with few good ideas and some fillers.

Re: IF and their endless pursuit of fame... I think they managed to guess the trend and properly time only one album - CC.

Later attempts were just sad.

Funny enough, I think they would be more famous now if they stayed closer to their trademark sound.

As it is now, they are a band forever stuck between past glory and failure to get more mainstream exposure. Last time they did something big is almost 20 years ago. At best, they are currently capable of producing decent songs I'll forget in the next two hours (as exampled by the two latest singles).