For All Those Who Wonder Why Power Metal Isn't Big In The U.S.

[Jasonic]

Also, I will say it again.
There is not ONE person here who would NOT complain if power metal was indeed popular in the states. Here is what would follow:

1) Oh no!!! Hot Topic kids are wearing their shirts!!!
2) Ticket prices are too high
3) CD prices are too high
4) They are touring with crap bands
5) Their shows are filled with 15 year olds!
6) They sold out
7) Their music sucks now

So be careful what you wish for.

Metal (along with other music subgenres, punk, hardcore, etc) was built on DIY and anti-mainstream values. That is part of the appeal. Sure, of COURSE there is a LOT of crap mainstream that gets more attention and makes more money. Who cares? Why would you benchmark a metal band to a mainstream band? As others have said, the mainstream bands have the MACHINE (IE - major labels and mainstream media outlets) working in its favor) You can simply not justifiably compare the two.

 

[PurpleCrayonWriter]

There is no such thing as "quality" in music. Views on music are entirely subjective. So by what method have you measured this "decline"?

Neil

Hi Neil,

You're right to a point. Arguing which band is better -- Dream Theater or Symphony X -- is a matter of personal opinion. Ditto for all the arguments about the greatest rock band of all time: Led Zeppelin vs. The Beatles? The Beatles vs. The Rolling Stones? Even Classical music has its lively discussions: Mozart or Haydn? Beethoven or Bach?

Such debates can rage forever because there's no objective standard by which to measure "right" answers from "wrong" ones.

However, I don't think it's debatable what constitutes good music from bad in terms of the caliber of the musician, an artist's or a band's talent. For example, love him or hate him, it can't be argued that Yngwie is not an incredibly talented guitarist. Or that Paul McCartney is not a master of melody and songwriting.

It's when you compare, say, Symphony X to Ke$ha that subjectivity goes out the window. Who is a better musician? Who has more talent? Who knows the craft of songwriting better? Who's a better singer -- Russ or Ke$ha?

The "decline" of which I speak has to do with knowledge and mastery of the craft of music making vs. those who don't know a damn thing other than how to put on makeup and "sing" about partying (although, come to think of it, KISS did alright with that shtick).

So, you're right that some of the discussion is "entirely subjective." But the standard, to me anyway, is knowledge of music, and mastery of one's instrument.

Ke$ha may sell a gazillion albums. But I'm not sure anyone here will argue that she's any good at her craft. She's just another pretty face, the bimbo du jour. She has a right to make any kind of music she wishes to make. That's not in question. It's just frustrating to me that people's standards are so low.

Granted, as others have pointed out, I'm pleased to know of so many great bands in the world. Good music isn't dead. It's just harder to find because what passes for good in the eyes of the public is so dreadful.

My fear is that today Ke$ha tomorrow...what?

 

[Jibrille]

4) They are touring with crap bands

But I already always complain about that. Every freaking band this year is touring with Powerglove as support. Into Eternity of a few years ago has nothing on them.

 

[dcowboys311]

I don't really think that an entertainer marketed towards teenage girls has much to do at all with the success (or lack of) of power metal here...

It's not as if the average 25 year old American is eating this stuff up. It's 14 year old girls.

 

[TheLongshot]

I get amused when people talk about the decline of pop music when pop music has always have their selection of crap. the problem is, most of us forget about it because the stuff that's crap stops getting played for the most part and most of us forget that it even existed unless we are listening to an old Kasey Kasem Top 40 show.

 

[skyrefuge]

However, I don't think it's debatable what constitutes good music from bad in terms of the caliber of the musician, an artist's or a band's talent. For example, love him or hate him, it can't be argued that Yngwie is not an incredibly talented guitarist.

I definitely agree that instrumental skill is measurable. However, there is very little (if any) correlation between high levels of instrumental skill and "good music". Playing notes quickly on a guitar is only good for people who like hearing notes played quickly on a guitar. The desire to hear such a thing is no more objectively correct than the desire to hear someone fart The Star-Spangled Banner.

Or that Paul McCartney is not a master of melody and songwriting.

Here, I disagree. I don't know how melody and songwriting skill can be measured objectively. If people like "Tik Tok" more than "Can't Buy Me Love", how can you say that they're wrong?

It's when you compare, say, Symphony X to Ke that subjectivity goes out the window. Who is a better musician? Who has more talent? Who knows the craft of songwriting better? Who's a better singer -- Russ or Ke?

First, you're comparing apples and oranges. You're discussing Symphony X in terms of their writing and playing ability, so you need to compare them to the writers and players on "Tik Tok", not the girl in the video. So, who has better musicians? Hard to tell since "Tik Tok" may have some really accomplished musicians just playing simple music, but I'll give that one to Symphony X. And Russ would almost certainly score better than Ke$ha on a test of vocal ability. But again, placing value on those technical abilities is completely subjective.

Then, who knows the craft of songwriting better? Since that's subjective, the only way I really know to measure that is by how many people like Dr. Luke-written songs vs. how many like Symphony X-written songs. Of course money and promotion have huge distorting factor on that competition, but given Dr. Luke's track record, I'd say he has a pretty damn good idea of what he's doing. I really like "Since U Been Gone", "I Kissed a Girl" has been discussed several times on this very board, and while nothing about "Tik Tok" struck me as great, it had a decent enough hook for my ears.

So I still don't see that you have enough data to claim a decline in musical "quality", or even that "Tik Tok" is representative of that decline. Certainly there has been a decline for your tastes, but you're just one opinion in 7 billion.

Neil

 

[TribunalRecords]

At least she's not Brokencyde

AMEN TO THIS! that "band" is possibly the most laughable thing i have seen in the last few years, but hey, they sell records.

the videos are hilarious though. i will give them that.

 

[Jasonic]

Who the hell are Brokencyde?

 

[dcowboys311]

Who the hell are Brokencyde?

You're going to regret asking that...

 

[Diabolik]

If I had kids who listened to Brokencyde....I would drown them. Not out of embarassment...out of them not even having somewhat good taste in music. Dear Lord.

 

[TheLongshot]

Oh, just what I needed: a screamer combined with autotune with a cheesy dance beat.

 

[Jasonic]

Yes, but if you owned a major label, you would sign these guys in a heartbeat!
They have the look.
It has the necessary short attention span repetitive beat.
It has profanity!

Bottom line.....THIS WILL SELL.

 

[sccaldwell]

Doubtful. I mean that's not exactly how it works. I don't think she's super rich like you'd expect her to be

Well, I didn't mean that literally...I have a decent idea of how things actually work. Saying "millionaire" was just a shorthand way of saying "has achieved a relatively high level of recognition for her 'work,' fame, celebrity and compensation as compared to the average working musician."

I just said "millionaire" to be lazy, and dammit...now I've had to spell it all out, anyway! But I wanted to be lazy!!

Craig

 

[sccaldwell]

One way in which I measure "talent" (not just pure instrumental skill) in comparing one musician/singer to another is this:

Could musician/singer A do a credible job performing musician/singer B's songs, and vice versa? And similarly, could musician/singer A write songs fairly similar to those by musician B, and have them be similarly enjoyed by musician B's fans?

If A can do B's convincingly (ie. B's own fans would say they did a good job on it, or would like it), but B can't do A's, then I'd argue that A is more talented.

Here's an example: Like 'em or not, Pain of Salvation's music is ALL OVER THE PLACE stylistically, but virtually every song is pretty well done for the style in which it's performed and if you played a single song of theirs for someone, they'd likely believe that PoS was a band of that particular genre (funk, folk, metal, whatever).

Here's another: Given that the holidays just ended, I was listening quite a bit to Stride's fantastic "Bah Humbug" Christmas CD. Virtually every song on there is different stylistically...I'd call some of country, even. But each song is VERY well done for its genre.

One more: Listen to Mattias IA Eklundh's first "Freak Guitar" CD.....it's all over the place, but all exceptionally well-done.

Or look at Steve Morse.....rock, country, jazz, classical...the dude can play/write anything!

THAT is serious talent, IMHO. Of course, it doesn't mean that you HAVE to cross genres to be successful or talented, but if you're comparing someone who can/does to someone who can't/doesn't, I think it's a differentiating factor.
At least, for me. YMMV.

Craig

 

[TribunalRecords]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TH5ibABP4U"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TH5ibABP4U[/ame]

here is the actual video that make me laugh all the time. the screamer dude is hilarious, in a bad way.

also watch around the :48 mark where the little sip he takes is too much for him. haha, and around the :58 mark or so when he fixes his hair. haha, so damn funny.

 

[KYF_Cincinnati]

Honestly I think we need a ban on this kind of posting entirely. This is what, the second or third post we've had recently on this exact topic?

It cracks me up when people complain about threads they already have multiple posts in. No one is being forced to read anyone else's threads here.

For one, it's not constructive. For another, this thread really has absolutely nothing to do metal. It's a thinly-veiled put-down thread to say "look how awful this other thing is". In this community that's like beating up a cripple.

This is good... a person preaches about how people shouldn't critisize a popular song for the sake of not liking it, then proceeds to critisize a popular forum thread just because THEY don't like the thread... lol... good move.

We seriously need an outright rule against shitposting like this entirely. I thought we had such a thing, in fact. It's one thing to weigh in on an open discussion and say you're not a fan of something and even that it sucks. It's another to create an entire thread devoted to it and put some other kind of spin on it. This kind of thread makes people not want to post or even read here anymore.

This is good stuff, this person obviously likes the "Tik Tok" song and probably paid $1.29 to download it....

...It's another to create an entire thread devoted to it and put some other kind of spin on it...

Spin??? What "spin", I didn't notice any "spin"....

-KYF

 

[Bryan316]

Simple minds are simply amused.

It's easy to sell dumb music to the dumb.

 

[Kaosaur]

It cracks me up when people complain about threads they already have multiple posts in. No one is being forced to read anyone else's threads here.

So if I post in a thread, that automatically means I support it? Should I just sit down and shut up if I think it's detrimental to the community? Whatever.

This is good stuff, this person obviously likes the "Tik Tok" song and probably paid $1.29 to download it....


Spin??? What "spin", I didn't notice any "spin"....

Based on what? I'd never heard this tune before. Shit, the stuff I primarily listen to is so far removed from this... So if I don't think we should be posting threads whose subjects are about power metal but are really about criticizing some mainstream pop act, obviously that means I like it?

What the fuck are you smoking?

The point is, this thread is completely off-topic for this board, popular or not. At the very least it should be in the Lounge. More specifically though, it is not constructive discussion in any way whatsoever. See my beating up a cripple comment.

This OP is basically a market discussion of pop music while trying to say it's something else. That's the spin I'm talking about here. It serves no purpose and I think there's just a huge lack of perspective on this board for anything that's not-metal. Specifically not a certain kind of metal.

No offense to the poster but basically all these threads are are put-downs and ego-stroking. Kinda childish really. Metal used to have some f'in balls... this herd mentality stuff on forums (not just ours, all of them) and at shows is getting a little out of hand.