From mixing Metal to mixing Folk/Pop TIPS?

[Harley Barley]

Hey guys, as like most people here i mix/work on primarily metal/hardcore stuff so i'm very familiar with that sound. But i've been working on this album for a singer songwriter/folky pop chick almost like i dunno.. early Feist? and i am having the absolute hardest time with it. I know what i want to do to it but most of the time my usual tricks sound way to processed and compressed to work and dont let the track breathe everything almost sounds better.. OFF. anybody have tips for this? coming from a metal background..

 

[SoundsLikeFog]

So why are you doing all your usual tricks if they make everything sound worse in this context?

You keep a scoreboard how much total GR you need in a track before you can call it a pro production?

 

[neonlight]

start with mixing the vocals. If you feel they have a nice room, delay and sound smooth when soloed, bring up the rest of the tracks (I'd start with drums and bass here).
This way you'll realize very quickly if the upcoming elements are to ''heavy-mixed'' or if they glue well with the vocals.

EDIT: when bringing up the other instruments, start with all insert effects bypassed. It's possible that you won't need lots of processing and small adjustments can do the trick.
Also try automating volume in organic instruments insted of smashing them with a compressor.

 

[RevoltStudios]

I do mostly NOT metal. Thick drums and vocals are the key, and a more round bass with less gained guitars...and lots of production.

 

[BLUElightCory]

Tip#1 - track good sounds at the source, and do minimal processing. You don't need a bunch of EQ and compression. Just take your time picking and placing mics and focus on good performances.

 

[AEL89]

Tip#1 - track good sounds at the source, and do minimal processing. You don't need a bunch of EQ and compression. Just take your time picking and placing mics and focus on good performances.

Yep.

Ambience is key too. I love short room reverbs for folk stuff - if you can capture the ambience of a cool room - go for it! Even with vocals - throw up a room mic! Don't be tempted to smash everything with compression! Careful with your EQ as well - with metal you're probably cutting a lot from 200 - 400 on almost every source - you don't really need to with folk. A little mud build up is acceptable. Soften the top end with saturation - Slate VTM is ideal for this... 15 IPS all the way!

 

[mva801]

Tip#1 - track good sounds at the source, and do minimal processing. You don't need a bunch of EQ and compression. Just take your time picking and placing mics and focus on good performances.

This. I do 90% NOT metal as well, and really most of your sound is all derived from the performance. Not nearly as much processing needs to be done for that type of thing. Good performances on good equipment is your #1 priority, after that, good room, good mics, and not much else. Most Folk/ Jazz stuff I do only gets a little compression on drum buss ,bass and vocals. Usually only a little eq on the high end and on the drums, and it sorta just mixes itself as long as the players are good.

I actually get pretty frustrated when I record metal and have to get so crazy with everything instead of just letting a natural sound come through.

Oh, post some clips!

 

[Harley Barley]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14412995/MUIX BX GLUE COMP LESS LIMIT.mp3 Here is the clip i'm working on not a lot of processing going on. it was all tracked pretty well i'm just having a bit of a hard time getting everything to sit together properly sound focused and clear and not too sound busy. i think i'm having a problem with some of the low end.

Sounds like Fog: i'm not doing my usual tricks that would be crazy but i mean just like any make this sound better stuff ends up sounding way to processed but i'm not sure how else to get the clarity.

Everybody else: its not that i'm having a problem with the sounds everything sounds pretty good its just getting it to work together and still sound good. i think the goal here is to get it to sound kinda like mumford and sons/lumineers/Of monsters and men

Any comments on the actual track would be aweeeeeesome.

 

[Alex_M]

Sounds pretty cool for my ears, very natural, really good for this style.

Probably you could try to make bass guitar sound a bit more readable in the mix, but it mostly matter of taste.
I think the correct automation can provide more breath to your mix, make it more dynamic. Just try to increase level of overheads, tambourine, clean guitars and vocal reverb send level a bit in the choruses. Probably mute some things in one of the same places or add something to make each part of a song more individual.

Try to give more dynamics for this song, it's a key for success. You already got great sound and ballance but it sounds a bit statically.

 

[Nimvi]

Sounds pretty cool for my ears, very natural, really good for this style.

Probably you could try to make bass guitar sound a bit more readable in the mix, but it mostly matter of taste.
I think the correct automation can provide more breath to your mix, make it more dynamic. Just try to increase level of overheads, tambourine, clean guitars and vocal reverb send level a bit in the choruses. Probably mute some things in one of the same places or add something to make each part of a song more individual.

Try to give more dynamics for this song, it's a key for success. You already got great sound and ballance but it sounds a bit statically.

Agree with all of this. Listening from my living room, here are a few things I notice:
-The bass could be more readable and also just a bit louder in general, to give the song a stronger backbone.
-The deep thump of the kick works for this song, but I have a feeling that it will completely disappear on a smaller system without a sub. Maybe you could try adding a parallel compressed version of the kick to make the higher frequency smack stand out just a bit more without losing that thump. I'm not talking about Fear Factory levels here of course. :Smokedev:
-I think the ukulele (?) has a spike around 500hz, making it jump forward in a way that bothers me.
-IMO the vocal could use a bit more air. Sounds a bit muffled compared to the rest of the band.
-I think the lead guitar is clashing with the vocal around 2000-2500hz.

Otherwise I think it sounds good. Nice band! I think you are closer to the finish line than you think.

 

[mva801]

Finally got to check it out on my monitors. Sounds real nice! I'd just like to hear a little more "air" on the vocals as well. The kick is a bit ... unfocused? Kinda boomy. I feel like the acoustic guitar could be a little more prominent and the uke is a bit dark as well. Overall you're pretty close though. Snare is killer.

I actually like recording this kinda stuff way more than metal. At least most of these bands can at least sort of play their instruments....

 

[greyskull]

I do so little metal these days but just about everything else! Harp quintet anyone?

The key is to never get stuck in a mind set of how you SHOULD record anything, which can be very difficult to do in the heat of a session. Try and just put a little time aside to experiment with trying something a little different to what you'd normally do. If you normally put a 57 on guitar, try every other mic you own instead, it may work, it may suck; but you can always fall back on the 57 on guitar for most styles of music.

For folky and poppy stuff such as you describe, ribbons are the tits on pretty much everything.
Especially on drum overheads; in that style of music you don't necessarily want all the shimmery detail and brightness of a pair of sdc's, you want an overall picture of the kit with a little more focus on the cymbals maybe. Bass... Fet 47 is the one, for electric and d.i but not exactly easy to get hold of.

Vocals. Now this is where you've really gotta spend some more time than you possibly would with metal vocals.
Match the mic and the singer, you and they will know when you've got it right. I'm really into the se T 2 mic on vocals at the mo, as it doesn't have that offensively brash top end so many other mics do.
Don't compress any where near as much as you would normally certainly for metal. If you are tracking with a compressor just take a db or two off, an the same for mixing. Fairchilds and the plugin equivalents are great for this sort of thing as they're very subtle . And lastly, one thing I know I must spend more time on is riding the vocals. Just finished up working on a project for a producer who really knows his stuff who spent AGES riding the vocal, and the effect it had on the energy of the performance was astonishing.

 

[Nimvi]

Harp quintet anyone?

I envy you. Just wanted to let you know that.

Otherwise, good information. I agree on the ribbon thing. I don't have an awful lot of experience with recording these styles, but in general I think ribbons are really vibey, gluey microphones. They usually need some work IME, especially on the (lack of) high end, but the recordings tend to have a strong mood right away.

 

[xFkx]

To me the focus right now is around the snare drum, and not the vocals, which is my biggest gripe. Other than that you're on the right track

 

[ArthurD]

I feel that the snare is confliting with the guitar strum in a bad way... They are clear, but both have the same harsh high frequency IMO.
The vocals are sounding nice, althought you could use the Bob Clearmountain technique to get that airy vocal (use 2 eqs, one focusing just on the quality of the vocals, inserted on the track, and other inserted on the bus, just for the air. Now mix into that bus and automate the hell).