How Much Should I Apply Systematic Mixing Guide tips to Slate and Trilian

[MondoLikeMetal]

I'm going to mix about 20 rock and metal songs, so I thought it would behoove me to buy Ermz's Systematic Mixing Guide. Great tips and tricks for most of what I'm mixing, but I'm using Steven Slate Drums and Trilian Bass on all tracks, and Ermz deals with real drums and bass in the book, with an overwhelming amount of processing (up to 4 compressors on a Bass part - wow), so I'm thinking I might not need all that processing - seems like Trilian Bass sounds pretty good out of the box, and has its own comps, eq, etc right in the GUI.
So, who here uses their virtual instruments own processing tools, and who runs these VSTi's flat, then processes on the discrete outputs?

 

[rapucore]

I never use what's included with the VSTi, I like them to be flat and then process them with my familiar tools the way I want. You can get a DI sound out of Trilian which helps a lot.
You can get "real-sounding" drums by replacing SSD with some natural samples and then working on them (though the Slate stuff is great IMO).

I don't see 4 compressors on a bass part overwhelming, what gets you there gets you there - be it a single 2-band EQ or six Waves Q10.

 

[AzzaDutt]

The best thing about Ermz's guide is the concepts are applicable no matter what you're doing. It's a guide on how to approach doing things your way.

So basically use as much processing, and as much of his ideas as you think the tracks need. If you like the comps/EQ in trillian use those.

But yeah, when I use Superior Drummer for tracks, I always process them on the multi outs in the DAW as opposed to in Superior, because I prefer the sound of doing it that way.

 

[~BURNY~]

About 53,2%

 

[rapucore]

About 53,2%

 

[Machinated]

my advice: always think more about why you're doing something and not just "what".

 

[MondoLikeMetal]

Ermz said to run a low-pass on the DI for bass - "this will be your low-end", and use the driven line for your mids. I tried that for a Picked P Bass, and I didn't get good results, as the bottom freq came out too harsh and changed the coloration of the bass.

I think I'm going to go with discrete outs for SSD.
Kick 1, Kick 2, Beater, Snare 1, Snare 2, Snare Hi Pass, Stick, Hi Hat, Ride 1, Ride 2, Rack toms, Hang Toms, Floor toms, Crash 1, Crash 2, Crash3, Splash, China, NRG Room, SSD, Room - all flat in Kontakt 4, except band passes for "beater" and snare hi-pass that I mix up to taste for clarity.

But when I started experimenting with Trilian in the same fashion, It didn't seem to get any benefits from it.

How do I set up discrete outs for DI, Amp, and Distortion?

 

[Ermz]

FWIW, the bass section of the guide is one of the things getting an overhaul for the new update. A more moderate approach is going to be put in there which should work across a wider range of projects. I'm still debating whether or not to can the two current methods listed in there, as I use neither at present, and found the new method superseded them in most regards.

That being said, the drum mixing tips are more or less universal. The main difference with using pre-processed Slate samples is that the severity of your processing will lessen. As they're already pre-cooked, you won't need to do as much yourself.

 

[He's Dead, Jim]

new update.

 

[AzzaDutt]

FWIW, the bass section of the guide is one of the things getting an overhaul for the new update. A more moderate approach is going to be put in there which should work across a wider range of projects. I'm still debating whether or not to can the two current methods listed in there, as I use neither at present, and found the new method superseded them in most regards.

That being said, the drum mixing tips are more or less universal. The main difference with using pre-processed Slate samples is that the severity of your processing will lessen. As they're already pre-cooked, you won't need to do as much yourself.

Really looking forward to update! I found that the current bass technique is very hit and miss, so I'm looking forward to hearing the new method.

 

[melovine]

Eta on an update ermz?

 

[Ermz]

I keep overshooting my personal deadlines with it, so I'm not setting anything in stone. Currently it's set for sometime this year.

Overstating heavy processing on bass guitar is one of the few regrets I have with the guide in its present state, so I'm very keen to get that fixed up. I also don't like the idea of dividing it up between 3 different approaches. I might well rewrite half of that chapter, and make it more succinct.

 

[Heabow]

How do you usually EQ the DI track and the disto/grit track? I tend to low-pass the DI pretty drastically (around 700hz) but I don't know really how to deal with the different tracks so I often end to work with only one bass track. Of course it depends on the context, the guitar tone, etc. but I'm looking for a general answer, a starting point.

 

[MondoLikeMetal]

Thanks Ermz for chiming in. Like Pensado, you are that rare bred of talent and accessibility. I'm looking forward to your update, and hope it includes more help for the "one-man-band" guys like me who use VI's on most elements, and don't have to worry about "cymbal bleed" and the like. I's funny how the "real instruments" guys want to sound tight via processing, and the VSTi guys want to sound more "human". My hope is that my final products well be a good combination of both.

 

[akarawd]

Ermz, since all 3 bass processing approaches are valid, I'd prefer to see all of them along with a suggestion of when they are more likely to be used (even depending to the quality of the DIs). Also, if you could cover an approach similar to that of in flames from their last cd, it'd be awesome.

Thanks,
Than