Funny, but sad truth as well...
- Thread starter Harvester
- Start date
Oh, Bob,
I most certainly wouldn't say that Nina "got knocked the fuckout," but I do think that J. Golden makes a good point about her exposure to metal. Though she may understand it as a regional thing, it really sounds like she just wasn't aware of what was out there because she didn't have anybody to show her. When you're growing up, you only know that to which you're exposed. If I didn't have a father who was cranking Dokken, Whitesnake, and Iron Maiden while I was a kid in the 80s, I wouldn't have the stepping stones that I needed to discover everything else I like now. When my dad discovered Fates Warning and Dream Theater between 1989 and 1993, I was hearing them on a regular basis, but I wasn't quite ready to dig in. When a grade school friend turned me onto Joe Satriani at the age of twelve, I started searching for anything with killer guitar work. By age fourteen, I was going through my dad's cassettes and giving these Fates Warning and Dream Theater albums another listen and getting my mind blown. This would have been 1994, a good five years before I had somewhat regular access to the internet. Until then, I was searching through magazines and talking to folks at the few concerts I attended in hopes of finding more music like the stuff I was hearing.
The point I'm making is that not everybody is as fortunate to be turned onto underground music at such a young age. In fact, I'll bet that plenty of people do get exposed to it in some form or other at an early age and just don't feel it. I know that you get this point, as you wouldn't have made your last post if you didn't. I just thought that the video post was unnecessary.
Stay metal. Never rust.
Albert
I most certainly wouldn't say that Nina "got knocked the fuckout," but I do think that J. Golden makes a good point about her exposure to metal. Though she may understand it as a regional thing, it really sounds like she just wasn't aware of what was out there because she didn't have anybody to show her. When you're growing up, you only know that to which you're exposed. If I didn't have a father who was cranking Dokken, Whitesnake, and Iron Maiden while I was a kid in the 80s, I wouldn't have the stepping stones that I needed to discover everything else I like now. When my dad discovered Fates Warning and Dream Theater between 1989 and 1993, I was hearing them on a regular basis, but I wasn't quite ready to dig in. When a grade school friend turned me onto Joe Satriani at the age of twelve, I started searching for anything with killer guitar work. By age fourteen, I was going through my dad's cassettes and giving these Fates Warning and Dream Theater albums another listen and getting my mind blown. This would have been 1994, a good five years before I had somewhat regular access to the internet. Until then, I was searching through magazines and talking to folks at the few concerts I attended in hopes of finding more music like the stuff I was hearing.
The point I'm making is that not everybody is as fortunate to be turned onto underground music at such a young age. In fact, I'll bet that plenty of people do get exposed to it in some form or other at an early age and just don't feel it. I know that you get this point, as you wouldn't have made your last post if you didn't. I just thought that the video post was unnecessary.
Stay metal. Never rust.
Albert
Diabolik
Member
it was more aimed at Jeremy's never ending posting on this thread towards her comments. He is like a rabid dog on this it seems.
another point about this as well is that it seems that the underground isnt underground anymore. Like everyone in the 80's...you had to have someone show you stuff or if you were lucky to come across it on your own from other gateway bands. I came from a very non music friendly family. Most of my music I found was on discovering on my own since I had no one to show me...just found it from music videos on the early 80's. I think most get bitter since part of the fun from that was the hunting and discovering new music that mainstream had no clue about....people now can just go to google and be a know-it-all in a matter of hours and get almost any CD /album by a band in a click of a button. Or read about how it was back then.
Diabolik
Member
The Chicago scene is thriving as well. There is always a show or a tour hitting...tons of music related things to do as well.
For example.....
- any given week there is a metal show...it being local or large touring act coming through. being a larger city we have big clubs, small clubs, and tons of small bars who doing shows almost daily.
- we have Metal Markets about 4 or 5 times a year. basically different labels / vendors / artist meet up a local bar and sell all day long. Lot's of people come out to buy stuff or hang out.
- we have a couple of "metal" themed restaurants / bars.
- lots of locals who will come out to shows even on week nights.
So anyone saying that metal is dead is crazy. Even in it's high point in the 80's there was never this much happening in the city.
But again...while it is popular and thriving...not every show is packed. It boils down to "interest". If the show is something people want to see...they will go. People can make flow charts, interview people, run all the data and numbers but you can never really tell how a show will do until showtime. After hearing so many people say the famous line...."yeah, I will be there for sure." I trust no one.
J. Golden
Heaven and Hell Records
Bob, I don't believe this is true at all. I was not attacking her or anything like that. I do believe some people "front" to some extent oppose to just keeping it real at times, not to say that was totally the case here. But...
J. Golden
Heaven and Hell Records
Really it is stupid and pointless to discuss how people are exposed or not, or to what, etc. People come into when they do and at their own pace. \
Not sure how this started or where it is going.
Not sure how this started or where it is going.
Diabolik
Member
Really it is stupid and pointless to discuss how people are exposed or not, or to what, etc. People come into when they do and at their own pace.
Not sure how this started or where it is going.
it all started with a pic on how no one comes to shows.
J. Golden
Heaven and Hell Records
Oh yeah, well that is because people suck.
Look there are several factors to the reason why. Personally I think some people certainly those who would be into more traditional styles of metal have just grown out of it. And younger kids just don't see a need. Besides why go to shows when we all can seat at our computer and bitch about people not going to shows?
So perhaps we should be more specific here; it is not that metal is not "in", it is going to shows that is not "in".
Do you remember the bands STALKER, or MR REALITY? I lived in Upstate NY but jammed with several NJ bands, and even filled in a few times at a place called CLUB BENE in NJ.
AngraRULES
Member
When someone complains there are NO prog and power metal shows "around", but yet they choose not to go to the power and prog metal shows that come to town, I'm sorry bro, they're being dicks.
That's fine. That's not my point, however. The point is, if you're choosing NOT to go when there are shows (regardless of your preference), don't turn around and say "There are NO shows of the genre ever coming my way..."
Heh, sad but true.
Just a curious question for Jeremy: when, in your opinion, did metal start forming genres? Throughout my metal head adolescence, we didn't distinguish between the various subtypes that we do now. Maybe it was a function of where I grew up, but if the music had loud, heavily distorted guitars, heavy bass lines, and a singer who could wail, we called it metal.
Sir Exar Kun
Member
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
I don't. I wasn't all that in tune with the club scene. As I might have mentioned, we only played about 10 shows, all in NJ.
For some reason I had it in my mind that you weren't on the east coast.
Diabolik
Member
it has always been that way. Even back in the early 80's...you had people into thrash, speed metal, death metal and power metal. Sure there wasn't as many sub genres and then mini genres and offshoots as there is now but there was always genres.
J. Golden
Heaven and Hell Records
That is actually kind of interesting, almost could be kind of a philosophical question if you will.
I don't recall when genres came to play, I do recall starting to see obvious differences. Megadeth and Metallica, Slayer were certainly not Twisted Sister and Accept, and those two were not Bon Jovi.
I recall the first time I heard the term "power metal" it was a magazine and the term itself was used on Slayer, Raven, Metal Church, and even Keel. At that time there was no puffy shirts, keyboards and songs of unicorns - well not to many.
Genres are not a new concept at all but I do think they just kind of sprout up with no true origin, but more speculation of that origin. Some have better ideas of these origins than others. But it is all relative anyway.
I do think genres are often routed in those scenes", many genres sprout from one small area's "scene" and then move on from there like a virus.
When my friends started listening to Metallica I did not see that as thrash metal or whatever, it was just metal. I was given Possessed 'Eyes of Horror' EP and it was fast like Metallica, well it well surpassed them actually; obvious difference there but I still saw the two as metal bands, not thrash, not death (though arguably {Possessed could have been the first). Then a short while later my cousin who grew up right in the middle of the Florida death scene would introduce me to what was known has death metal which was a step beyond Possessed. Differences were obvious, routes can be debated at times, genres well you decide...
First time I heard the term "progressive" it was used to describe The Cure, I dare say it fits them more than most of the bands who get the term tagged to them.
J. Golden
Heaven and Hell Records
Probably about the time the first message boards on the internet popped up.
Good guess.
Seriously though I do recall them always being there. Also genres titles were different in various areas or different groups of people. For instance; hair metal, poser metal, cock rock, etc all used to cover the same stuff just various with different people depending where they are coming from. This could have something also to do with genre terms. Perhaps stuff is just tossed out there until something sticks.How did the term power metal become what it is now? I remember it to describe Slayer, now it is used to describe the soundtrack to the next Little Mermaid cartoon.
Element_man
Lord of the Realm
No, but you might be surprised with how your opinion on a band can change after seeing them live. I can think of quite a few times where I saw a band live that I was "ho-hum" about but checked out the show anyway (or watched their slot on a fest) and was pleasantly surprised/blown away, and their records ended up on regular rotation.
Not saying you have to check out every show ever, but next time a band comes though that you're merely "ok" with but have never seen before, consider checking it out, because you never know.
Mardoch
Defender of the Universe
There's this, or the alternate route of...just not being a huge dick about stuff you don't like.
I've bought stuff before that it turns out I hated (Thy Majestie and Cage come to mind immediately), but I don't get pissed that I made some bad choices, because I know someone does like them and if I helped them get a little more of what they like...then cool.
Diabolik
Member
exactly...there are lots of bands that I wasn't interested in but then seeing them live changed it. Some bands are just better live than on a recording.
DuchessOfDork
Member
- Feb 9, 2009
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And there ya go.
This confuses me and I have no idea what you're referring to, except for that time you accused me of trying to show off my metal cred by owning a patch vest. Because that makes sense.
Either way, I wasn't even arguing. I was just talking about my experience and having a conversation because it was fun. I don't know why some people try to make these conversations into arguments. Aren't we all supposed to be trying to make the scene a better place? Lets all hug and shut the fuck up about who's right and wrong. If it makes you feel better to call me a doo-doo pants because I didn't know shit about metal until my 20's (due in part to regional differences between my neighborhood and one with more people who know what metal is), then go for it.
