GClip for Mac Kick Starter
- Thread starter ofallkindsroye
- Start date
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Oh knob off. I've been making music and giving it away for years - literally since I was 14 - I'm 29 now. The TNBD project is the first one I've seen any money from. Don't lecture me (or anyone else) about their viewpoint.
I buy plenty of plugins. I've donated to LePou a couple of times. I don't need to feel guilty about anything. Asking for £3500 for a Macbook is a piss take imho.
bryan_kilco
Member
On the subject of GClip and clippers......
What is the difference between literally clipping your signal by running in too hot compared to running GClip? Obviously, recording too hot is a no-no and cannot be "undone", but isn't a clipper basically doing the same thing to your already-recorded track? Or am I missing something entirely here?
What is the difference between literally clipping your signal by running in too hot compared to running GClip? Obviously, recording too hot is a no-no and cannot be "undone", but isn't a clipper basically doing the same thing to your already-recorded track? Or am I missing something entirely here?
Assuming he's buying new, it's almost a 3rd of the budget for a "basic" Macbook. A basic Mac Mini is £499. Even if he needed to buy a monitor on top of that, it'd only be an extra £70.
Just find it a bit unethical really.
It's like if one of the respected guys around here came on and said "Hey, I'll mix your tracks for free if you give me this £10k I need to buy all the new gear I require and my next 3 months rent/utility bills"
I know we don't have to contribute, I just find it a bit odd that he's willing to not work while he ports over the code to Mac on a plug-in which he initially made for free. Get a job, buy a Macbook/Mac Mini/Hackintosh, port the code over, charge a small fee for it. Hell, even if it was £5, if it's as popular as it's made out to be, he'll make most of that back in no time.
Maybe he was too busy while he had a regular job, but now that he's unemployed, he can finally take the time to get a Mac, learn how Apple's Core Audio works, and give the community what they wanted for years? And all he's asking for is for an appropriate computer and some money to pay the bills while he's doing it -- probably while he's searching for a real job, too.
Actually he deliberately used Kickstarter because of this.
"Why Kickstarter
Good question... I have no physical rewards to offer, so I feel that my project is a little out of place here. I did consider launching a simple appeal on GVST.co.uk instead, but I wouldn't feel right if I took peoples' money, but didn't raise enough to deliver anything. Kickstarter allows me to do this on a pledge-based, all-or-nothing basis that I feel much more comfortable with. If there's enough support then this will happen, if not then nobody loses out. It also gives me a convenient platform to keep backers up-to-date with project news."
Mago
Austrian Blech Machine
Oh knob off. I've been making music and giving it away for years - literally since I was 14 - I'm 29 now. The TNBD project is the first one I've seen any money from. Don't lecture me (or anyone else) about their viewpoint.
I buy plenty of plugins. I've donated to LePou a couple of times. I don't need to feel guilty about anything. Asking for £3500 for a Macbook is a piss take imho.
Not lecturing at all man, just pointing out what I read in this thread.
Giving shit to someone who gave his stuff away for free for years is pretty fucked imho.
If you read the whole text you'd know that it isn't only for a macbook.
FrankTheSmith
Member
- Apr 20, 2013
- 494
- 9
- 18
I thought it was $3,500... But it's £3,500. That's almost 6,000 us dollars. That's a pretty fat chunk of change.
Dude has an interesting business model in that he gives his stuff away for free and relies on donations to make any money back.
I guess this particular situation shows one of the shortcomings of this model.
Unfortunately with this business model you do accept that people do not value the product as having a monetary value other than what they think it is worth.
I'm betting the vast majority of people (as in all GVST users, not just members of this board) do not donate to GVST, and I'd also guess that those who do donate smaller amounts than they'd pay for a plugin from an established company.
He claims that 2,000 people visit his site every day and that there are over 1,000 downloads of his products daily. So far 6 people have pledged money. I'd probably bet that he won't reach his target based on the general response here but maybe I'm wrong.
That is his choice to have this business model. If anything this will serve as a case study for it.
I should add that I have no computer programming experience and I don't know what timescales are like for porting VSTs. All I know is that even if he spends £500 on a Mac Mini leaving him with £3k it is not a lot of money to work on something for 4 months (his maximum predicted time scale) in the UK. It is less than you'd get working for minimum wage full time over the same period. If any computer programmers with real life experience (Drew?) can chime in and give a realistic time frame then I'd better understand what he's asking for.
The conflict in this is he wants to treat this like being paid for a job, but ultimately it is more akin to a donation because of how his business model works. He can't offer any backers anything exclusive so it doesn't work as an investment in the traditional sense either (as non-investors get the same access to the plugin).
I guess this particular situation shows one of the shortcomings of this model.
Unfortunately with this business model you do accept that people do not value the product as having a monetary value other than what they think it is worth.
I'm betting the vast majority of people (as in all GVST users, not just members of this board) do not donate to GVST, and I'd also guess that those who do donate smaller amounts than they'd pay for a plugin from an established company.
He claims that 2,000 people visit his site every day and that there are over 1,000 downloads of his products daily. So far 6 people have pledged money. I'd probably bet that he won't reach his target based on the general response here but maybe I'm wrong.
That is his choice to have this business model. If anything this will serve as a case study for it.
I should add that I have no computer programming experience and I don't know what timescales are like for porting VSTs. All I know is that even if he spends £500 on a Mac Mini leaving him with £3k it is not a lot of money to work on something for 4 months (his maximum predicted time scale) in the UK. It is less than you'd get working for minimum wage full time over the same period. If any computer programmers with real life experience (Drew?) can chime in and give a realistic time frame then I'd better understand what he's asking for.
The conflict in this is he wants to treat this like being paid for a job, but ultimately it is more akin to a donation because of how his business model works. He can't offer any backers anything exclusive so it doesn't work as an investment in the traditional sense either (as non-investors get the same access to the plugin).
xTomx
Member
What a bunch of entitled babies.
If you don't want to support it then don't, nobody cares about your unwarranted opinions.
If you don't want to support it then don't, nobody cares about your unwarranted opinions.
He's Dead, Jim
Member
It's an internet forum. Who the hell comes here to read diverse opinions? Christ, you guys with your reasonable and opposing viewpoints.
I think it is more interesting than people just whining though.
The free/donate business model is used by a couple of plugin makers but this is the first time I've seen someone using that model try to raise extra cash via a Kickstarter type project.
To me this whole thread highlights one of the main weaknesses of the free/donate business model - perceived value - both of the product and of the time of the person who creates it. But again as I said, I don't know how long it takes to code this stuff, so if someone who is a coder could explain it I think it would help people who don't do coding understand.
I wonder how different it would be if he used a traditional paid for business model and could offer something 'worthwhile'. For example, lets say each plugin was $50 usually, but if you backed his Mac conversions you'd be able to get them for $30 instead. That way he would be offering backers something exclusive. I don't think there would be the same response in this case.
The free/donate business model is used by a couple of plugin makers but this is the first time I've seen someone using that model try to raise extra cash via a Kickstarter type project.
To me this whole thread highlights one of the main weaknesses of the free/donate business model - perceived value - both of the product and of the time of the person who creates it. But again as I said, I don't know how long it takes to code this stuff, so if someone who is a coder could explain it I think it would help people who don't do coding understand.
I wonder how different it would be if he used a traditional paid for business model and could offer something 'worthwhile'. For example, lets say each plugin was $50 usually, but if you backed his Mac conversions you'd be able to get them for $30 instead. That way he would be offering backers something exclusive. I don't think there would be the same response in this case.
When it comes to Kickstarter, skepticism is certainly not unfounded... There are obvious cases of people just taking the money and running, and some verified ones even. It's sadly a get-rich-quick scheme for some people.
The problem here isn't that anyone would be offended by him asking 3,500 quid, but him making it look like it's just for the Mac. Before someone rushes to point it out, I'm sure it says in there somewhere that it's also for bills and whatnot, but that's beside the point. If you're asking for financial help, don't make it look like you're trying to pull out some extra if that's not what you're asking. It's easier to come across as sincere if he was just asking help for his financial troubles and general aid for future productions, which is fine; people do that on fundraisers, and often reach their goal. Hell, he could easily be asking much more than what he is. When the talk is focused on a product, it's different.
The Mac isn't going to magically disappear once he makes the Mac VST. Also as mentioned, it's a bit curious why while being unemployed, he would choose to pursue this goal. I'm not accusing him of anything, what I'm saying is you shouldn't get angry if people are being skeptical and would require an explanation before possibly pitching in. If things were clarified a bit further by him, it'd certainly help the general attitude.
The problem here isn't that anyone would be offended by him asking 3,500 quid, but him making it look like it's just for the Mac. Before someone rushes to point it out, I'm sure it says in there somewhere that it's also for bills and whatnot, but that's beside the point. If you're asking for financial help, don't make it look like you're trying to pull out some extra if that's not what you're asking. It's easier to come across as sincere if he was just asking help for his financial troubles and general aid for future productions, which is fine; people do that on fundraisers, and often reach their goal. Hell, he could easily be asking much more than what he is. When the talk is focused on a product, it's different.
The Mac isn't going to magically disappear once he makes the Mac VST. Also as mentioned, it's a bit curious why while being unemployed, he would choose to pursue this goal. I'm not accusing him of anything, what I'm saying is you shouldn't get angry if people are being skeptical and would require an explanation before possibly pitching in. If things were clarified a bit further by him, it'd certainly help the general attitude.
I think this is the key point that makes this a donation and not an investment or even pre-order when combined with his business model.
Backers don't get anything different to non backers if the project goes ahead. The incentives for backing are that A) they want to help him, and B) they want access to GVST plugins on Mac.
Since GVST plugins are free at the point of download non backers will get access to them for free once the project is completed. This means financially non backers get a better deal, should they choose to not donate (which I'm guessing is the norm).
Also, upon completion of the project he still has the Mac, and he can make further money through further donations to GVST from users of the plugins.
In this scenario, if he reaches his goal he stands only to win now and to possibly win more in the future.
What is missing is where the backers win VS the non backers. Since he doesn't charge for anything he can't give the backers anything in this scenario.
It would be a different situation if he did charge.
Say the plugins were $50, and he was going to do this project at $30 per plugin - then the backers would win VS the non backers. There would be incentive for the backers to back early, and the issue of him making further money from sales after the completion of the product wouldn't be as much of an issue because the backers have already had their reward. In this scenario, the Kickstarter project becomes a 'pre-order' whereas right now it is basically just 'donations'.
I'm not angry and I am a bit skeptical if I'm honest. But mostly I'm just interested in how this business model changes the value of the products.
Hi all. I'm Graham. I just thought I'd explain the motivation behind the Kickstarter from my point of view.
Programming and making music are hobbies of mine. I wrote the GVST plug-ins for my own use and decided to release them as freeware years ago. Mac versions don't exist now simply because I don't use or own a Mac.
Over the years I've had lots of messages from people asking me to create Mac versions of the plug-ins, and it's something that I'd enjoy doing. So, I put a price on that job and created the Kickstarter project to see if there's enough support to make it happen. It really is as simple as that. Whether the price is reasonable is always going to be a matter for debate, but if it's too much then it won't happen, so that's ok.
This isn't about buying me a Mac. If I simply wanted a Mac, then I'd buy a Mac. It's not about paying my bills either - I'll be fine. And it's not about making some quick money - I could make money more quickly as an employed developer. It's just a simple proposition.
I understand where most of the criticisms are coming from. It's not a perfect solution, I'm aware of that. But I'd like to dispel any idea that I'm some sort of conniving, money-grabbing chancer who really just wants a Mac.
P.S. Regarding the non-disappearing Mac, as I've just spotted that query: I'm expecting the Kickstarter funding to buy me a Mac, that is true. And it won't disappear after the project, but then neither would the plug-ins. I'd need the Mac going forward for diagnosing bugs and rebuilding the plugs whenever they change. I'm really not in this to get a Mac.
Shout if you want me to answer any of the other queries.
Programming and making music are hobbies of mine. I wrote the GVST plug-ins for my own use and decided to release them as freeware years ago. Mac versions don't exist now simply because I don't use or own a Mac.
Over the years I've had lots of messages from people asking me to create Mac versions of the plug-ins, and it's something that I'd enjoy doing. So, I put a price on that job and created the Kickstarter project to see if there's enough support to make it happen. It really is as simple as that. Whether the price is reasonable is always going to be a matter for debate, but if it's too much then it won't happen, so that's ok.
This isn't about buying me a Mac. If I simply wanted a Mac, then I'd buy a Mac. It's not about paying my bills either - I'll be fine. And it's not about making some quick money - I could make money more quickly as an employed developer. It's just a simple proposition.
I understand where most of the criticisms are coming from. It's not a perfect solution, I'm aware of that. But I'd like to dispel any idea that I'm some sort of conniving, money-grabbing chancer who really just wants a Mac.
P.S. Regarding the non-disappearing Mac, as I've just spotted that query: I'm expecting the Kickstarter funding to buy me a Mac, that is true. And it won't disappear after the project, but then neither would the plug-ins. I'd need the Mac going forward for diagnosing bugs and rebuilding the plugs whenever they change. I'm really not in this to get a Mac.
Shout if you want me to answer any of the other queries.
Hi jeid. The reason for opting for a MacBook is that I plan to travel a bit over the next few months, so I chose something portable that would enable me to work on this wherever I am. Otherwise the Mac Mini would be perfect and would have been my first choice. It's a fair question and I should have included the reasoning in the description. I'll have to add some FAQs to the page.
While I'm here, I'll break down the figures. If the Kickstarter finished successfully right now, I'd expect to see around £3,200 after Kickstarter take their cut plus payment processing fees. From that I'd buy a new 13" MacBook Air, which is £949, and a Windows 7 or 8 license so I can dual-boot it, which is £74. That leaves £2,177, which I'd spend on beer. No, I'd put that in my bank account and treat it as income. I know it's a lot of money, but as a couple of months' income it's not ridiculous.
It may not be the greatest proposition the world has ever seen, but I resent suggestions that it's underhand or unethical. (Although, I'm as cynical as the next man, so I'd probably assume the same).
I'm not trying to sell this idea to anybody here, just defend the reasoning behind it. My hope is that there are enough people out there that already wanted this to happen and can spare a few pounds. If not then so be it.
While I'm here, I'll break down the figures. If the Kickstarter finished successfully right now, I'd expect to see around £3,200 after Kickstarter take their cut plus payment processing fees. From that I'd buy a new 13" MacBook Air, which is £949, and a Windows 7 or 8 license so I can dual-boot it, which is £74. That leaves £2,177, which I'd spend on beer. No, I'd put that in my bank account and treat it as income. I know it's a lot of money, but as a couple of months' income it's not ridiculous.
It may not be the greatest proposition the world has ever seen, but I resent suggestions that it's underhand or unethical. (Although, I'm as cynical as the next man, so I'd probably assume the same).
I'm not trying to sell this idea to anybody here, just defend the reasoning behind it. My hope is that there are enough people out there that already wanted this to happen and can spare a few pounds. If not then so be it.
![[Prime]](/data/avatars/l/138/138439.jpg?1472440784){kind=avatar}
[Prime]
Member
- May 20, 2012
- 146
- 5
- 18
This is the biggest bunch of bullshit I've read in a while. If you don't like the dudes request don't donate or whatever.
Who are you guys to tell the man what and how to do anything? This is retarded!
If I was this guy I'd say f*ck this bullshit and just ignore these ridiculous comments.
Who are you guys to tell the man what and how to do anything? This is retarded!
If I was this guy I'd say f*ck this bullshit and just ignore these ridiculous comments.
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