Handling BIG mixes

[coreyb]

Hey guys, I'm doing a mix at the moment with about 35 tracks, nothing too bad except i'm using that many more plug-ins (heavy one's too) than normal, that my PC's suffering badly. CPU spikes every 15 minutes, with absolutely unworkable latency, lasting about 5 minutes...then straight back to normal. I've frozen plenty of tracks with no improvement, but i'm not here to ask for a cure.

Just asking: what do you do to work around necessarily big CPU heavy mixes?

Do you render 50% of the session at a time and work through each half at a time (as inefficient and probably unproductive as it could be)? Do you break it up into multiple project files for mixing? Let us know!

 

[Ermz]

I run a 'printing session' and print processing chains on all the major CPU hogs. Bass guitar, vocals, drums etc. all get 80 to 90% of their sound printed then and there. Then in the mix I just use an instance of equality, and maybe a compressor to tweak them into their final place.

Though I have to say if you're running into these problems with only 35 tracks, it may be time for a computer upgrade. I normally only start sweating when I get to 100 (which, in recent times, has been fairly often).

 

[coreyb]

Wow, so simple but never even thought of it, will definitely give that a dig.

Well I thought my i7, at 1.6 GHz and with 6gb ram would handle stuff like this, but I don't think the fact that it's a laptop helps matters
Guess it's probably time to start updating..

 

[Nimvi]

Hmm, your specs aren't that different from mine, but I too don't have any trouble until I'm running up to about a 100 tracks, unless I really go overboard on cpu-heavy VSTs.
Rendering the very heavy tracks is probably a good start (especially ampsims and analog simulators stack up really fast, and those usually are set and forget anyway), but I would also look into your bufferingsettings and maybe up them a bit. Maybe they are still set as low as possible from the recordingsession? Ofcourse upping the buffers introduces a bit of latency while mixing, but within limits that never really bothered me personally.

 

[-Noodles-]

My last mix was, like Ermz, well over 100 tracks. If the machine is struggling with 35 then there's something up with your i7. Are you running antivirus software, connected to internet etc. All decreases processing power.
Running from high performance / speed external drive will help too. Such as a FireWire 400 / 800. I've not used USB3 so can't comment.

Printing tracks is a great habit to get into. Especially if you ever get outboard because then it becomes necessary!

 

[coreyb]

I've taken every measure I can think of to remedy the dilemma: played with buffer settings, shut off wireless card, turned off antivirus, freezing tracks...mind you, I probably am going overboard with the heavy plug-ins (lots of synth layers; even on that level, i'll put any instance of Massive into "eco"mode). What do you think is within reason (ignore pun, i'm using reaper) for indulging in plugins? For some scope, I've got 4 guitar tracks each with POD farm, cab impulse/EQ buss, about 3 synths (which haven't been printed), Battery, light EQ and comps on pretty much everything, trigger VSTs on 6 drum tracks...is this blatantly overboard?

 

[Ermz]

Yes. All your drum samples, synths and guitar tones should be printed well before you ever start mixing.

Commit, move on, work in stages.

 

[Nimvi]

Yea, if you have done all those other things already, I'm pretty sure it has to be the heavy plugins that are causing this. I bet that once you render those synths, drums and podfarm tracks, things will run a lot smoother.
For a reference, I usually just run standard EQs and comps, and maybe a few reverbs/effects if I'm not sure about them yet live, and that works pretty well with my i7 with 8GB ram in windows 7 x64. Before I rendered my tracks, the drum and amp vsts would make stuff stutter heavily.

Offtopid: Merry christmas everyone!

 

[if6was9]

You shouldn't be running into problems with 35 tracks. Last mix I had big CPU issues with was 125+ tracks and after rendering a few of the key problem tracks I got the mix done. My machines nearly 5 years old and I use it for all my internet action too, also running a very old version of Reaper which I can only assume is less efficient than current ones.

 

[sawtooth]

Wow, so simple but never even thought of it, will definitely give that a dig.

Well I thought my i7, at 1.6 GHz and with 6gb ram would handle stuff like this, but I don't think the fact that it's a laptop helps matters
Guess it's probably time to start updating..

Isn't your i7 capable of overclocking? I have an i7 2700k that can go to 5ghz.

 

[Lon]

this is a simple thing of podfarm and synths (especially with long delay and release trails) eating up cpu power for breakfast, if you go by one simple rules "there is only audio in the tracks, never midi that needs to be processed" then you should not have a performance issue even with your low-end system

edit: go the Ermz route, commit, then mix, if you find un-fixable problems (or only fixable with a unjustified workload) you can always go back and print with different settings again...

 

[Heabow]

Just a quick question from a noob here...
I work on an iMac core 2 duo 3.06gHz / 4gHz RAM and sometimes my CPU is 'clipping' up to 70-80%. Would be worthy to increase the RAM up to 8gHz?
The most of the time I do like Ermz said. It helps a lot.

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

I'm on a Mac Pro 8 core and it craps out way to easily, but I found that it may have to do with the Cubase only fetching 3-4GB of ram, so if I use a heavy plugins or nebula or something it craps out on around 15-20 tracks... which is a bit ridiculous for such a powerhorse computer, I think Windows systems perform better on the audio side of things.

If you have Cubase, this is what I do. Let's say you have your drum tracks, bass, etc with the chain you want, assuming your using mostly plugins, print them, disable the tracks that have the plugins on, put them on a different folder and keep them there, so if you need to go back and re-print to fix something it's always there

 

[AceFireForce117]

Sorry for the noob question : what is "running a printing session" ? (sorry it's just i have to wobble between french and english and the terms are different so i get confused sometimes

@Heabow 8gb it could help but it wouldn't change THAT much. More efficient upgrade would be changing the cpu/motherboard. Then again i'm not a computer expert.

 

[sawtooth]

I'm on a Mac Pro 8 core and it craps out way to easily, but I found that it may have to do with the Cubase only fetching 3-4GB of ram, so if I use a heavy plugins or nebula or something it craps out on around 15-20 tracks... which is a bit ridiculous for such a powerhorse computer, I think Windows systems perform better on the audio side of things.

If you have Cubase, this is what I do. Let's say you have your drum tracks, bass, etc with the chain you want, assuming your using mostly plugins, print them, disable the tracks that have the plugins on, put them on a different folder and keep them there, so if you need to go back and re-print to fix something it's always there

Are you using the 64bit version of Cubase? Have to use that to use all your RAM, but any 32bit plugins you use won't use more than 4gb of RAM. Thankfully any samples I use have now been released in 64bit VST format.

Got my new i7 2700k with 16GB 1600mhz RAM a few days ago and I can use over 30 instances of Decapitator, which is incredible considering my old PC could use only two lol Not that I would want to use that many anyway...

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

Are you using the 64bit version of Cubase? Have to use that to use all your RAM, but any 32bit plugins you use won't use more than 4gb of RAM. Thankfully any samples I use have now been released in 64bit VST format.

Got my new i7 2700k with 16GB 1600mhz RAM a few days ago and I can use over 30 instances of Decapitator, which is incredible considering my old PC could use only two lol Not that I would want to use that many anyway...

It's the 32 bit but I was never given an option to install the 64bit version... I'm running Snow Leopard and Cubase 5. I've downloaded a little application that turns the 64bit kernel on the Snow Leopard ON, but it made absolutely no difference. I run about 6 instances of Decapitator and it craps out... It's quite ridiculous for the machine I have...

That's what I don't understand on Mac, there's no option for anything like in Windows you CHOOSE to install 64bit and CHOOSE to install 64bit anything within it... on Mac I get no choice whatsoever..

 

[arv_foh]

It's the 32 bit but I was never given an option to install the 64bit version... I'm running Snow Leopard and Cubase 5. I've downloaded a little application that turns the 64bit kernel on the Snow Leopard ON, but it made absolutely no difference. I run about 6 instances of Decapitator and it craps out... It's quite ridiculous for the machine I have...

That's what I don't understand on Mac, there's no option for anything like in Windows you CHOOSE to install 64bit and CHOOSE to install 64bit anything within it... on Mac I get no choice whatsoever..

that's because in OSX you get the 32 bit and 64 bit architecture, if the app supports it. right click the cubase app, click "get info" and make sure "open in 32 bit mode" is not checked

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

Is it that simple? So it installs both at the same time?! Jesus, I wasn't aware of that... What about plugins?! I was also never given a choice for 64bit or 32bit... obviously Waves are all 32bit but Soundtoys, SPL, Brainworx install 64bit AND 32bit on a Mac? So if I uncheck that, the whole Cubase architecture will get access to all my ram except for 32bit plugins right?

Cheers for that dude

 

[arv_foh]

Is it that simple? So it installs both at the same time?! Jesus, I wasn't aware of that... What about plugins?! I was also never given a choice for 64bit or 32bit... obviously Waves are all 32bit but Soundtoys, SPL, Brainworx install 64bit AND 32bit on a Mac? So if I uncheck that, the whole Cubase architecture will get access to all my ram except for 32bit plugins right?

Cheers for that dude

Yessir, and I believe plugins are the same way. I use Logic and it has a 64bit to 32bit plugin bridge, which works great. All my 64 bit supported plugins appear at 64 bits, and I never had to choose to install them that way.

 

[coreyb]

Yes. All your drum samples, synths and guitar tones should be printed well before you ever start mixing.

Commit, move on, work in stages.

"Commit" I think is the key word there...I guess i'm just used to the luxury of having every parameter for every aspect of every track readily available for tweaking.

Cheers for the tips everyone, merry xmas!