Harsh attack on drums

[Jack Pirate]

I've been facing a dilemma when mixing drums because of how the attack sticks out. I'm able to get a good mix, the drums are cutting through nicely and then I compare to some pro mixes and my drums transients sound very harsh in comparison. I tried removing the harsh frequencies with EQ but then the whole drum sound becomes too dark and it doesn't cut through as before. Is there anything that I can do at this stage to make the transients smoother? I tried using saturation but that didn't help much either, it barely smoothed the transients and added a lot of stuff that I didn't need in the sound.

Thanks a lot!


CLIP: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ithjpfi37pmayaw/clip.wav

 

[Skinny Viking]

depends on the overall sound you're going for and the context of the mix but I'd suggest starting with your compression settings

 

[colonel kurtz]

clips?

 

[Lon]

saturation

 

[Skinny Viking]

^ "I tried using saturation but that didn't help much either, it barely smoothed the transients and added a lot of stuff that I didn't need in the sound."

 

[amarshism]

Make your attack time faster or shave off some attack with a transient designer.

 

[colonel kurtz]

honestly it's not often people complain of too harsh an attack on the skins

were the tracks clipped on the way in by any chance?

 

[Jack Pirate]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I have tried the transient designer thing with no success. When I shave off just a little of the attack the drums get lost in the mix and there's no impact to the hits anymore.

honestly it's not often people complain of too harsh an attack on the skins

were the tracks clipped on the way in by any chance?

No, they were not clipped at all. The source is good, the problem is definitely in the mix.

 

[Skinny Viking]

maybe your monitors are fucking with you. Have you tried listening on some good headphones or in the car or whatever to see if it has the same quality thats bothering you?

 

[Jack Pirate]

Maybe it is indeed my monitors, my mixes always have this harsh thing going on. It makes me wonder though, because other mixes actually sound good in my monitors, so my first thought is that my mix is the problem. I will listen to it in different systems and see what happens.

 

[mva801]

If other mixes sound awesome, then the problem is your mix. Post clips mang. Hard to help without hearing it.

How are you trying to eq out the offending frequencies? Small dips with a high Q will do a lot to tame things... maybe you're going overboard with that?

 

[Jack Pirate]

If other mixes sound awesome, then the problem is your mix. Post clips mang. Hard to help without hearing it.

How are you trying to eq out the offending frequencies? Small dips with a high Q will do a lot to tame things... maybe you're going overboard with that?

I will try to post a clip, have to figure it out.

Regarding the EQ, I'm doing exactly what you described but a mild dip isn't doing the job, I have to go like -6 or -7db with a high Q to get it smoother, but then the sound becomes dark and dull in comparison to the rest of the mix.

An interesting thing: I noticed that there's a certain sweet spot in the room that my mixes sound awesome, but all pro mixes that I used as reference sound good from anywhere in the same room. It's very puzzling to me.

 

[Joelegend]

Are they real drums? Do the drums sound harsh solo'd or together with other instruments? Maybe it's the other things wich makes the rest harsh? Maybe your overheads are to loud? Did you do a nasty high-shelve boost there? You compare to commercial mixes? Don't forget they went through an extra mastering stage. I am no pro myself, but just finished a new song we recorded, had some issues with harshness also, and still abit compared to pro stuff. But the bassguitar was actually screwing things up for me and made the mix painfull. After doing some big cuts in the bassguitar - in solo mode there was barely a difference - the whole mix got alot less painfull tho. Dunno if i am right tho, but do frequenties stack up?? Cause i sometimes noticed a not so bright guitarsound, might suddenly get alot brighter in combination with overheads... just saying...

 

[egan.]

The way I've gotten harsh toms is by trying to EQ in an attack that wasn't there.

 

[Jack Pirate]

Let me clarify a little bit the scenario...

At first I got a mix that had a pleasant attack, but then I compared it to a few pro mixes and realized that the whole thing was way too dark and muffled. So I started over aiming for a brighter overall sound. I achieved it, but now for the drums to cut through the mix properly they have to be quite bright too, and that makes the attack very harsh sounding. It's a dilemma, I don't know how to achieve the attack that I want without making the mix harsh.

 

[EOC]

Let me clarify a little bit the scenario...

At first I got a mix that had a pleasant attack, but then I compared it to a few pro mixes and realized that the whole thing was way too dark and muffled. So I started over aiming for a brighter overall sound. I achieved it, but now for the drums to cut through the mix properly they have to be quite bright too, and that makes the attack very harsh sounding. It's a dilemma, I don't know how to achieve the attack that I want without making the mix harsh.

Sometimes when we compare to comercial/pro mixes and we go like "shit! my mix should be way brighter" our first reaction is to grab the eq and start cranking those shelfs or reach out for the presence region. If you are mixing ITB and use not so good eq plugs then obviously the harshnes is gonna show up.

IMHO what we should do in those cases is think and hear more. Instead of desperately cranking up the highs we should try to really hear what element of the pro mix is brighter. Sometimes you end up finding out that is not that your mix is muffled but that your cymbals are just low!!!
But well, that depends on every case, sometimes it is your guitars, or the vocals,etc.

Now, more importanly, are the pro mixes really brighter? or maybe it could be that the bass is more controlled, better balanced and free of mud?
Sometimes if you want somethig to sound brighter, instead of pushing up the highs you should turn down the lows!

Another point would be that one should be VERY carefull when treating highs. We tend to over do it, specially after the comon "my mix is shit compared to sneap work" crisis. Just do it veeery gently, not every instrument in the same freq. If kick click, snare jizz, vocal Ssss and cybalms are fighting for the highs you will end up always tring to put some more: "ok now my vocal is brighter! but i lost the click of the kick, so you turn it up, but now i cant hear the bass pluck! and so on...

If aaaall of that isnt the case (we will never know till you put up some clips) then just snap some nebula ssl console emulation in mix bus and drum bus, some tape program and be good to go! Does wonders with this kind of problems

EDIT: sory for my crappy english

 

[C_F_H_13]

Let me clarify a little bit the scenario...

At first I got a mix that had a pleasant attack, but then I compared it to a few pro mixes and realized that the whole thing was way too dark and muffled. So I started over aiming for a brighter overall sound. I achieved it, but now for the drums to cut through the mix properly they have to be quite bright too, and that makes the attack very harsh sounding. It's a dilemma, I don't know how to achieve the attack that I want without making the mix harsh.

A lot of people made good suggestions, but here's a fairly simple one that I find helps a lot with drums.

Sometimes if you have to make things overly bright/harsh to cut through, it's not a lack of top end, but actually a lack of low end/weight. Or conversely, it's not that your drums are too dull, but that guitars are too bright. Maybe just as an experiment you should try a reasonable cut at 2-4k on your guitars and see if it clears some room.

Sounds to me like it just might be some clashing in the 1k-6k range, or a lack of 100hz or so in your shells.

 

[Jack Pirate]

A lot of people made good suggestions, but here's a fairly simple one that I find helps a lot with drums.

Sometimes if you have to make things overly bright/harsh to cut through, it's not a lack of top end, but actually a lack of low end/weight. Or conversely, it's not that your drums are too dull, but that guitars are too bright. Maybe just as an experiment you should try a reasonable cut at 2-4k on your guitars and see if it clears some room.

Sounds to me like it just might be some clashing in the 1k-6k range, or a lack of 100hz or so in your shells.

You raised a very good point when you said "it's not that your drums are too dull, but that guitars are too bright". It could very well be the case, but how would I know? The mixes that I use for reference give me an idea of an overall sound, but since I can't solo the tracks it can be misleading to try to perceive if a specific instrument is brighter/darker than the same one in my mix. Basically what I'm trying to say is that I don't have a reference to know if my guitars or drums are too bright, my ears alone are not a good reference at this point.

 

[EOC]

You raised a very good point when you said "it's not that your drums are too dull, but that guitars are too bright". It could very well be the case, but how would I know? The mixes that I use for reference give me an idea of an overall sound, but since I can't solo the tracks it can be misleading to try to perceive if a specific instrument is brighter/darker than the same one in my mix. Basically what I'm trying to say is that I don't have a reference to know if my guitars or drums are too bright, my ears alone are not a good reference at this point.

You should be able to compare individual instruments even though you dont have stems or individual tracks. Guitars, since they are dominant in this style of music should be pretty easy to make a general stament such as "in this mix the guitars are brighter, darker, etc "
If you cant, then invest some time in practising exactly that: grab 5 different pro songs and start focusing in one element and compare them. You will be sourprised by how different they are. Eventually it will become automatic, and as soon as you hear and compare a mix you will realize if your kick lacks low end, if guitars are to fizzy, etc.

 

[xFkx]

without clips this thread is pretty pointless