I am on the same boat... I can't stand anything Jorn has done (except Burn The Sun...)
But my solidarity only goes so far... if it was a DVD by one of my favorite bands I'd have to think about it...
Hate to be the one to post this... (Jorn related)
- Thread starter mëtålspëd
- Start date
I am on the same boat... I can't stand anything Jorn has done (except Burn The Sun...)
But my solidarity only goes so far... if it was a DVD by one of my favorite bands I'd have to think about it...
booB
Señor Member
Generally my ratings only go to a perfect 10, but there are occasionally a FEW albums that make the 11/10 list!
And you preface that section of your review list with, "These go to eleven!"
The Jorn I am talking about was when he performed with Ark, so it was pre any of this shit, so no judgements can be based on Ark or their music because of this ordeal. Secondly, I give you that Nevermore bailed out twice, but they had their reasons and you can't blame them for wanting to be on a well-known tour, whether it happened or not, the opportunity was there for them too. Thirdly, Pain of Salvation hasn't bailed out on any shows because of the visa issues(so in other words, they never stiffed their fans), just decided they didn't want to perform in the states anymore(I've seen them twice and want to see them dozens more times, but at least I got my 2 times in). Other bands have bailed out, but they don't get criticized like Nevermore did, so quit crying like little babies, it is all business and not all business deals go down as planned, things change, and better or other opportunities come about and it is up to them to make their own decisions on what is better for them, not us, because we all have our opinions and views and can see things differently than they do. Now, about this Jorn issue, it is complete bullshit, but there are assholes out there and once their ego gets inflated there is no taking it back.
By the way, it is a top 3, but those 2 nevermore and 2 POS cds are taken as a package for me, and I just can't decide so they get bundled up together, so yes, just make it my progressive top 3 then. They are not in any particular order though, plus I was drunk when I made that post, so please forgive my stupidity.
By the way, it is a top 3, but those 2 nevermore and 2 POS cds are taken as a package for me, and I just can't decide so they get bundled up together, so yes, just make it my progressive top 3 then. They are not in any particular order though, plus I was drunk when I made that post, so please forgive my stupidity.
Sir Exar Kun
Member
My only beef with Jorn is that he has fallen into the very safe, comfortable realm of 70's influenced hard rock. The last few albums have been enjoyable, but definitely lack the flair that Ark, Beyond Twilight, and "Worldchanger" all presented.
And comparing Nils and Jorn..... Pure apples and oranges. I know lots of people who cannot stand the high range singers like Nils. While no one can imitate King Diamond quite like Nils, no one imitates David Coverdale like Jorn. Different strokes for different folks, I guess!
NP - Star One "Live on Earth"
And comparing Nils and Jorn..... Pure apples and oranges. I know lots of people who cannot stand the high range singers like Nils. While no one can imitate King Diamond quite like Nils, no one imitates David Coverdale like Jorn. Different strokes for different folks, I guess!
NP - Star One "Live on Earth"
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Exactly. His work with Ark was exceptional. His recent output, has been paint-by-numbers AOR.
Although I think there are few who can match Nils in a live setting, I'd agree again. Two completely different vocalists. Both exceptional.
Zod
No Username
Member
Sorry, no.
Neveragain bailed out twice because they are the kind of band who will not honor an agreement--saying they were leaving for another tour is just an illogical excuse for their bad behavior. It is akin to someone blaming a stabbing victim for being in the wrong location at the wrong time of night--they were stabbed because some bastard felt like stabbing them, not because they were putting gas in a car at 11pm.
Pain of Slavation will not come back to the states because they are a bunch of whiny children who don't want to play over here, despite having many fans (burdened with poor taste) wanting to see them live. It is akin to you not giving a lollipop to your kid because, well, you just don't wanna.
I will never buy another Volbeat album because of what they did to us (Glenn) this year.
If you think that what your "favorites" did was ok, that is cool. Some of us just can't forgive the shit, is all.
Hal9000
Dark Lord
Every band has to do shit they don't want to eventually, you know they are humans as well. What some bands or artists do is unexusable, like what Jorn is doing, but I don't think Nevermore dropping out affected anybody monetary wise except for themselves. Another band was given their spot, where they made their money, and Glenn still made his money, and I would like to think that Glenn didn't lose any money from them bailing out. As for Pain of Salvation, I don't blame him for disliking our American culture, because I do too and I think it is a shame people want to stand up for bullshit and defend it until the end of time. If I was to travel to another country, just for work or pleasure for a short period of time, I wouldn't want to have all my personal shit on file, even though I know we are covering our asses because of shit that has happened, but only under certain circumstances the unnecessary seems necessary, but this is not what the topic is about. And for Volbeat, I am not a fan and don't care to see them, but what happened seemed to be a clusterfuck of miscommunication between management, bandmembers, etc., so I am not going to write off a band because of something like that. If I like them I will still like them, but maybe I won't go see them live, but I will still purchase their music if I enjoy it. Music is for our enjoyment, but it is a business as well and sometimes shit doesn't always go as planned. I am sure you have cancelled a date, a business appointment or lunch, a meeting, called in sick to work, and what have you, so aren't they allowed to do the same damned thing you do, because it is their job. We all have our reservations and our own values, so shouldn't they as well, so if they don't want to play here, then so be it, and most of these bands don't make much profit at all, so if a better opportunity coms along to maybe actually make some profit to feed their families, I think i would go with the better opportunity.
Harvester
The Promoter
Let me set the record straight as the worst thing in the world would be for false rumors to get back to the bands that are attributed to me.
1. I will always hold Pain of Salvation in the highest of regards no matter how much I disagree with Daniel's granola vision. This is the one band that accepted the challenge of a "fans pick the setlist" and stuck to it exactly. No cheating. Mad props to them for that. The door is always open for them. Zod can go pretend to be Scheepers in the hall for an extra set.
2. Nevermore and I had an agreement in place twice. They were confirmed and announced. After the fact, they were offered the chance to jump on major tours and reach thousands of new fans. Did I get screwed? Absolutely. Do I blame them. No.
3. Volbeat hurt. I won't lie. I was looking forward to them more than any band on the roster. I took a chance on them and brought a high profile to what then was an unknown band in the States. I promoted them for months. I do feel that this was the worst screwing possible because of the circumstances involved. I got screwed over again for essentially the same reason as Nevermore. What pissed me off even more was that no one wanted to take responsiblity for me getting fucked. As much as I'd like to kick each of the band members in the balls in Atlanta in a few months, I plan on enjoying the show from the back.
4. Jorn did not steal from me. The bands are given the opportunity to purchase the shoot VERY cheap in exchange for allowing me to put up a couple of cuts on my dvd (if they don't want to allow me to do it for free). Jorn was honest from the start and said he did not want the shoot. No problem. He would not be on the dvd. However, once he saw how pro everything was (including the studio), I worked a deal with him for the footage. I would simply give him the footage to take with him. If he liked it, he could pay for it then and allow me to use it on the dvd. I do not know what the facts between what happened between him and his label. Time goes by. A lot of time goes by. I run into the deadline for the PP USA dvd and ask Jorn if I can use his footage. He said no. More time goes by and all of a sudden news of his dvd is released. I had no idea. None. He did pay the studio for the footage at the same rate as everyone else once the dvd release was confirmed. The studio got their money, Jorn got his dvd for cheap, and I got dick.
1. I will always hold Pain of Salvation in the highest of regards no matter how much I disagree with Daniel's granola vision. This is the one band that accepted the challenge of a "fans pick the setlist" and stuck to it exactly. No cheating. Mad props to them for that. The door is always open for them. Zod can go pretend to be Scheepers in the hall for an extra set.
2. Nevermore and I had an agreement in place twice. They were confirmed and announced. After the fact, they were offered the chance to jump on major tours and reach thousands of new fans. Did I get screwed? Absolutely. Do I blame them. No.
3. Volbeat hurt. I won't lie. I was looking forward to them more than any band on the roster. I took a chance on them and brought a high profile to what then was an unknown band in the States. I promoted them for months. I do feel that this was the worst screwing possible because of the circumstances involved. I got screwed over again for essentially the same reason as Nevermore. What pissed me off even more was that no one wanted to take responsiblity for me getting fucked. As much as I'd like to kick each of the band members in the balls in Atlanta in a few months, I plan on enjoying the show from the back.
4. Jorn did not steal from me. The bands are given the opportunity to purchase the shoot VERY cheap in exchange for allowing me to put up a couple of cuts on my dvd (if they don't want to allow me to do it for free). Jorn was honest from the start and said he did not want the shoot. No problem. He would not be on the dvd. However, once he saw how pro everything was (including the studio), I worked a deal with him for the footage. I would simply give him the footage to take with him. If he liked it, he could pay for it then and allow me to use it on the dvd. I do not know what the facts between what happened between him and his label. Time goes by. A lot of time goes by. I run into the deadline for the PP USA dvd and ask Jorn if I can use his footage. He said no. More time goes by and all of a sudden news of his dvd is released. I had no idea. None. He did pay the studio for the footage at the same rate as everyone else once the dvd release was confirmed. The studio got their money, Jorn got his dvd for cheap, and I got dick.
VenomGA
At War With Stan
- Jul 28, 2005
- 4,221
- 40
- 48
Sir Exar Kun
Member
This is rapidly becoming a textbook example of how the internet has (and is) changing the face of the industry. Fifteen or twenty years ago no one would have been aware of 99% of this thread. This sort of information was unavailable to the average fan, unless some sort of a storyline was picked up in Rolling Stone or on Z-Rock.
Nowadays, and with this festival in particular, there is so much information out in the public that everyday fans see a side of the industry that maybe they don't really want to see. Fans want to look up to their idols, and when they see an aspect of them that expresses a certain common trait with the everyday working man, it can be a bit of a downer. In that same vein, Glen has achieved a super-hero like status around here (much of it deserved, some of it overhyped) for his works. Without question, he has achieved near-miracles with some of his line-ups. However, it amazes me how quickly fans will jump off an artist's bandwagon should they perceive that artist as having injured (monetarily or emotionally) another of their heroes.
Not to start the downloading argument, but it amazes me that folks in this thread are advocating illegally downloading Jorn's video out of spite. I'd say its the old "two wrongs don't make a right" axiom, but as Glen points out, Jorn was not legally in the "wrong"!
Glen, Jorn, and all the artists in this thread are altogether humans, with human emotions, and the propensity to make errors, just like every reader of this board. Every reader on this board has made a mistake that hurt someone at one point or another, but odds are they got over it and bygones were bygones. Same goes for these artists; everyone just needs to let it go and enjoy the music for music's sake!!!
Nowadays, and with this festival in particular, there is so much information out in the public that everyday fans see a side of the industry that maybe they don't really want to see. Fans want to look up to their idols, and when they see an aspect of them that expresses a certain common trait with the everyday working man, it can be a bit of a downer. In that same vein, Glen has achieved a super-hero like status around here (much of it deserved, some of it overhyped) for his works. Without question, he has achieved near-miracles with some of his line-ups. However, it amazes me how quickly fans will jump off an artist's bandwagon should they perceive that artist as having injured (monetarily or emotionally) another of their heroes.
Not to start the downloading argument, but it amazes me that folks in this thread are advocating illegally downloading Jorn's video out of spite. I'd say its the old "two wrongs don't make a right" axiom, but as Glen points out, Jorn was not legally in the "wrong"!
Glen, Jorn, and all the artists in this thread are altogether humans, with human emotions, and the propensity to make errors, just like every reader of this board. Every reader on this board has made a mistake that hurt someone at one point or another, but odds are they got over it and bygones were bygones. Same goes for these artists; everyone just needs to let it go and enjoy the music for music's sake!!!
Harvester
The Promoter
However, it amazes me how quickly fans will jump off an artist's bandwagon should they perceive that artist as having injured (monetarily or emotionally) another of their heroes.
Fan loyalty is why ProgPower USA is a success. I'm thankful for that beyond words. So while I have to be politically correct for the most part on here and at the show, there are certain times where I'm tickled pink that the fans get to say what I cannot.
No Username
Member
Sometimes things just seem so black and white. You make a commitment to something, you follow through on that commitment. If neveragain could not set up a deal where they missed a couple of dates to fulfill their PPUSA commitment, then they are lazy at best and scumbags at worst. You see lots of tours in our world where lineups change. If you have a better opportunity, go for it...AFTER YOU TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS AT HAND.
I had a very real example of this: When I was in Retail Management, I was having a store built in south Broward county. Then Hurricane Andrew hit, and the GC took his entire crew off my site to work in Homestead for more money. A couple of years later, this same guy came to me with a bid on a store in North Broward, with a pretty good price for the job. I told him to "get fuck out of my office," and went with a guy who charged more--but at least he had never run out on me.
I can agree that taking a couple days off to fulfill other requirements makes sense, I mean look at Pain of Salvation. Daniel was on tour with the flower kings in europe, right after a show jumped on a plane, got right off the plane, and arrived at the venue in time to perform and performed flawlessly. But, you don't know the full circumstances for Nevermore, as you are not in nevermore and you weren't in dealings with them in a professional level and are just a fan(or not a fan), so who are you to criticize them for what they did, because i bet if you were in their shoes you would of done the same thing. On top of that, from what it sounds like, the GC left to go help somewhere else that needed more help and it held presedence of the current work he was on. Yes, he should of stuck with his current commitment, but from the sounds of it because it was a hurricane, they needed emergency help, if so, how can you be so hard on the guy. Nevermore didn't get paid, they never started a job, and all they did was get offered a better job that could further their career and fanbase, in turn letting them make more money so they can keep on going in their career, because their is nothing like the music business and it is a dog eat dog world out there, so you have to what you have to do sometimes.
Gunstar9
Skeletor Goes to Mars
- Jan 30, 2005
- 457
- 0
- 16
Being a local promoter, I understand the Neveragain situation a bit better. I've had local bands dip out of shows here at the last minute to play shows up in Atlanta that they think will be better for them. One of those bands got really screwed and came back home with less than $30 and hardly a crowd at the show they played.
Needless to say there are bands that will and won't be booked at shows again for whatever reasons. It's a shame that we probably will never see Nevermore at a PPUSA or that Pain of Salvation was missed at previous PPUSAs by their fans. Catching Nevermore on tour isn't difficult for the die hard fans. Tour packages and festivals are different though... we just keep our fingers crossed and see who we can see when we can see them (or book them, in the case of a promoter).
Purveyor Of Evil
Heavy Metal, INC.
This is a tough decision for me if I should buy this DVD or not because I loved JORN's set at Progpower and I want to tell my friends, "Hey, man, I was there for that fucking show." But, it also burns my ass that Glenn got fucked royally and he's the one who gives me Progpower year after year to fucking enjoy.
