Having a band member as an all-in-one audio engineer

[elsenator]

I have some personal experience with this. These are my comments:

Pros:
- It gives you total control. You know the band, you know the sound, you can do the magic, even from record to record.
- If you do stuff properly, your band members will believe in you, and this is really nice.
- You save a shitload of money!
- You can do everything in your own time. This is actually also a con, since this often leads to laziness for the entire band. But overall, it's nice to be able to do everything when you all feel like it.
- Less people have to be involved, so it's very easy to do a cool sounding 3-track demo, whenever you feel like it. Still very time consuming, but if you know your stuff, you can make a very decent sounding demo in no time, with very few people needed for the process.
- When you've been through the process a few times, all members of the band know what to do, and when to do it, because you do things the same way every time. This saves time in the long run I believe.
- IF you manage to get the other members of the band to buy a decent audio interface, you can teach them to record the DI tracks back in their homes. Now you are only required to help them set up a project for it, and 2 weeks later, you have the completed DI track, and you didn't even have to get involved. This only works if they have the proper discipline and knowledge of what is required for a "guitar take" to be usable. They also need basic knowledge of how a DAW works.

Cons:
- You tend to do things the same way each time. This leaves little room for "new sound" to enter the band
- You, and you alone, are to blame if things are messed up. This is a heavy burden for one band member to bear. And believe me, something WILL go wrong along the way.
- It's extremely time consuming! It might not seem so bad when you think about it, but at some point you probably will go to bed thinking "daaaamn, I need some time off from this".
- You need to be there every step along the way. Nothing gets done without you being there to grab the steering wheel. This is stressful in the long run.
- It often, not intentionally, puts the rest of the band on the back seat during recording. Half the time you open your mouth they don't understand what you're saying (tech stuff).
- There will be questions from the band members where you can only answer "because that's what I believe to be the best". This is not cool, but sometimes intuition can't be explained. To the band members this is rather off-putting because it seems like you don't know what you're doing even though you probably are.
- It's expensive, mainly for yourself. You need the right equipment. Using a lousy audio interface, shitty mics and cheap amps won't give you a good result. EVERY SINGLE PART OF YOUR CHAIN REFLECTS ON THE FINAL PRODUCT, even the guitar pick! Don't underestimate this.
- It gives you less room to experiment, since you often have lousy recording facilities and less equipment to experiment with (cabs, amps, mics and so on).

 

[Scott Horner]

I have some personal experience with this. These are my comments:

Pros:
- It gives you total control. You know the band, you know the sound, you can do the magic, even from record to record.
- If you do stuff properly, your band members will believe in you, and this is really nice.
- You save a shitload of money!
- You can do everything in your own time. This is actually also a con, since this often leads to laziness for the entire band. But overall, it's nice to be able to do everything when you all feel like it.
- Less people have to be involved, so it's very easy to do a cool sounding 3-track demo, whenever you feel like it. Still very time consuming, but if you know your stuff, you can make a very decent sounding demo in no time, with very few people needed for the process.
- When you've been through the process a few times, all members of the band know what to do, and when to do it, because you do things the same way every time. This saves time in the long run I believe.
- IF you manage to get the other members of the band to buy a decent audio interface, you can teach them to record the DI tracks back in their homes. Now you are only required to help them set up a project for it, and 2 weeks later, you have the completed DI track, and you didn't even have to get involved. This only works if they have the proper discipline and knowledge of what is required for a "guitar take" to be usable. They also need basic knowledge of how a DAW works.

Cons:
- You tend to do things the same way each time. This leaves little room for "new sound" to enter the band
- You, and you alone, are to blame if things are messed up. This is a heavy burden for one band member to bear. And believe me, something WILL go wrong along the way.
- It's extremely time consuming! It might not seem so bad when you think about it, but at some point you probably will go to bed thinking "daaaamn, I need some time off from this".
- You need to be there every step along the way. Nothing gets done without you being there to grab the steering wheel. This is stressful in the long run.
- It often, not intentionally, puts the rest of the band on the back seat during recording. Half the time you open your mouth they don't understand what you're saying (tech stuff).
- There will be questions from the band members where you can only answer "because that's what I believe to be the best". This is not cool, but sometimes intuition can't be explained. To the band members this is rather off-putting because it seems like you don't know what you're doing even though you probably are.
- It's expensive, mainly for yourself. You need the right equipment. Using a lousy audio interface, shitty mics and cheap amps won't give you a good result. EVERY SINGLE PART OF YOUR CHAIN REFLECTS ON THE FINAL PRODUCT, even the guitar pick! Don't underestimate this.
- It gives you less room to experiment, since you often have lousy recording facilities and less equipment to experiment with (cabs, amps, mics and so on).

These are pretty much my thoughts exactly. Especially the cons. And the only thing they will focus on is the stuff that goes wrong that they can blame you for.

I was just doing shitty demos for my old band when all I had was FL Studio and the other guitar player expected everything to be done with the push of a button, not understanding that every single drum hit and velocity change had to be done by hand. Or not understanding that you won't get a cranked amp sound with amp sims. It was the most frustrating thing ever. I just hope that your band mates are not as dense and actually understand the work, time and money you will be putting into it. When they are hanging out drinking and not practicing their instruments you will be stuck working on songs. Good luck.

 

[Mago]

Gonna jump in here too, cause I think I've got a pretty nice variation of this thing going on with my band.

We 2 guitarplayers got into recording together, but at some point down the road I focused more on mixing stuff and the other guy focused on building pedals and amps and stuff.
Pretty cool because we have both the knowledge to record, knowing what is a good take and editing...altho I have a bit better recording equipment than him at home.

So even if I do (/did for our debut album, dunno yet how we're gonna do follow ups and stuff) a lot of work for our band it's cool to have someone else to be able to count on with a lot of things.
Also considering mixing and writing issues. My GF/singer of the band is also a real good help because she's good a good ear for mixes and isn't shy to tell me when something sucks (both mixing and music).
I'm not really sure if I could have done so much alone, without support from my band/friends...so it's really a though one.
But I also did all the graphic related stuff too...logo, artwork, cd case, booklet, online stuff...was fun but a bit too much after all think I will give that one out of hand for future stuff

Most of the pro's and con's have allready been named.
The biggest con for me with doing stuff yourself is that I got a bit lazy at times, and stuff took longer then it would have if had to have pay for the recording time.
So sometimes I just worked stuff out during recording, or did 2 weeks of recording and then 1 month off...
Next time we're having a bigger project I'm definitly going to have everything figured out beforehand and let the guys and girl book studiotime with me...makes stuff go a lot faster.

I don't mind that it takes a lot of time, cause I like to do it.

Hardest thing for sure is to stay objective, but as I said, Im lucky to have a few pairs of ears to tell that.

 

[Damage, Inc.]

I agree with most of the posts so far. You have more control over what's going on, but mixing is really its own art form, and you have to put a ton of time into learning how to do it properly. I'm mixing my band's release that's coming out later this month. It has been a great learning experience, but I don't plan on doing it again.

 

[solphilcox]

done this with pretty much every band i've ever been in, the whole reason i got into production was out of necessity to record high school band demos on zero budget (with local studios where im from being both shit and expensive), and gradually became just as big a deal as actually playing in the bands themselves.

just finished up engineering and producing my band's latest EP, the first we did last summer. it has been a taxing experience, it's so much easier to lose vision on a project when it's your own music, so i've just been calling up other engineer buddies to lend impartial ears when i've needed them. it worked out okay in the end, and i hope to continue doing it!

 

[noktem520]

Last summer, I recorded my bands first ep in the studio I was working in, on my off hours. Worst experience in the world.
The experience can briefly be described as: they wanted a "No mids" mix. No matter how many times I tried to explain that was the stupidest thing they could be asking for, they stuck with it.
The solution was: tell them to go home, mix the tracks to my leisure and make it sound good, and NEVER admit the way I mixed the tracks (with mids of course). LOL

I'm not sure I helped anyone..but yeah.

.

 

[Backe]

just did my bands album, and it's hell i can tell you. since you're so self-conscious about everything. it definitely helps during songwriting though, being able to trying out your ideas and making demos. the gear i possess is far worse than that of your average pro studio, and even having done so much work for other "up and coming" bands it's really hard to make stuff sound legit even though the performances are good and the songwriting is tits. tracking vocals through three different preamps due to relocations and making them work together, making the drums recorded with Mackie preamps in a small, poorly treated room sound ace (where the music does not allow for much sample replacement with i.e. superior drummer or even own samples off the kit), just seems like no matter how much i eq them they still sound dull, when i raise the high-end they hurt my ears, and the boxyness just run through the entire midrange. guitars and bass are all vst so they sound more production worthy, but making them sounding good with the drums as a whole is just a nightmare aswell. this is where the art part comes in. if i was in a tech metal band i'd probably do everything myself, program the drums, record and chop up my guitar parts to perfection and so on. but when you're playing in the bigger leauges, you can mix stuff to hell and back, but even if your levels, high-end and bass response and well.. everything is matched to a pro recording of your choice, it will still lack _that_. DAWs only go so far. i could definitely do some sort of combo, having a third-party producer in a classy studio and doing everything by the books with high-end gear and mics, then do the finishing touches myself. it's like a porno, where the guy bones the girl for 30 mins, but still do the "finishing touches" himself.

 

[TwoGOneSee]

It all comes down to what gives you a music boner: playing or producing. Because for at least a period of time while you ramp up and learn about all the mixing/production side of things, you won't be able to work on your playing nearly as aggressively. It's simple time management. For me, I really enjoy the production side of things and seem to be totally happy spending my free time doing that as opposed to keeping my chops up etc... It's all personal preference. If you want to learn a lot about this stuff and try shit out, there are few better ways (that I have found at least) besides recording your band or your friends bands for free or on the cheap. As someone in this thread before said, "it's how I got into the game." If your goal is to be the best vocalist in "the scene", then spend your time practicing vocals.

But I will say, when recording your own band, you need to be really disciplined about separating the "song writing" and tracking processes. Otherwise you will be in a world of hurt when you're all ready to push a song to the mastering stage and guitarist tells you for the 50th time that he wants to change YET ANOTHER lead part. Once tracking begins, song writing is OVER. end of story.

 

[HCL]

It works really well for us. Turnover time is a lot slower but the songs benefit massively from it.

 

[006]

To me it's pretty easy to do that (the OP's question). You simply have to look at it two ways. One way is that you are in the band, of course. The other is that you are the engineer. Being a band member you are responsible for things related to that position. Being the engineer you are responsible for the sound of the mix (and master unless you send it out for that). Two totally different things. A mix should sound good no matter what. A shitty snare sound is going to sound shitty regardless of you being in the band or not. A weak guitar tone will be weak no matter what, etc., you get the idea.

In fact, when I record my own personal stuff there are things about it that I wish I could achieve with all my clients. I can never get my client's masters as loud as I can get for my own stuff. I can never get PODfarm to sound as good with any of my clients compared to how it sounds for me and my playing. Stuff like that. I think part of that is, because it's my own personal shit, I have spent more time dicking with the sound of everything over such a long time, which usually a client's project doesn't allow as large of a window of time to work on. In my opinion, if you are in the band you are engineering, it should be the best production in your portfolio up to that date considering you have more invested in it than any other client/project you have done before it.

 

[amarshism]

I don't think I'd ever mix. At least not until I became a more well rounded mixer. That's why I palmed off to CJs more than capable hands. Next stop, putney.

 

[aortizjr]

I'm seriously considering devoting a lot more time to refining my engineering skills [if I could call them that] for the purpose of being the sole engineer on my band's music.

The first thing that comes to mind is the massive amount of money that can be saved and I don't mind doing the work at all.

There are lots of pros and cons. But I think you are mistaking a few things.

If you are doing it for budget reasons, or time reasons, you are seriously mistaken. You are already talking about amps and such to get the tones you want. Then take the time you have been researching and learning the engineering side of things, and convert that into rehearsal and practice time.

Now if you love it, you love it, so engineer.

But consider the mics, preamps, treatment, space, monitors, cables, legit software, etc. For pro quality you can blow through tons of money before you know it. And it takes years to get good at this and lots of practice. Otherwise it is just a lot of frustration, pressure and delays.

Of course some guys are freakishly talented. But do you want to find that out with your whole bands expectations or your expectations. Not to mention your writing and practicing will have to take a back-seat to some extent.

The best way to save time and money for a pro recording is to practice your ass off and work with someone that knows what they are doing and has a proven track record. Seriously, DIY is not the answer unless you are already good at it, have the gear, and the rooms.

Now for demos or something, that is another story entirely.

 

[adigitalme]

I would recommend teaching one of your band mates to at least track and possibly edit sufficiently. This is a time consuming process but one that will make the workload a lot easier to handle. Another thing to consider is that some people simply will not value the time and effort you put into something if they didn't throw down some money for it. One idea i've had recently is to talk about who pays how much for what when it comes to things like merch and other essentials, considering you may have done A LOT of work for free.

 

[KHE]

one very very important point accoriding my experience:
if you are tracking your bandmates, make sure they pay you a hourly rate! even if its a very low rate, it will force the bandmembers to practise the stuff enough. otherwise, chances are high that the musicias gets very lazy (after 3 ultra-non-productive hours of tracking: "sorry, i think today is not my day, and i think i should rehears this part a little more. see you in 2 weeks, then we do it again...") avoid this as much as possible, it will massiv cut down your motivation, which you need so much of to do all by yourself.

oh yes, and set yourself and your bandmates fucking timelines. part by part of the whole album-making-process. even if you will shift timelines arround, its very important that you have small specific goals to reach (psychological, motivation ect.).

and don`t underestimate the time, efforts and paitence you will need to do this (especially if you are not experienced with AE). keep your motivation up, don`t let it turn you down if things not work how you would like to see it. take a couple of days off the project if you start feeling exhausted.

burn bright, but don`t burn out...

 

[Clark Kent]

World's best audio engineers are all former bass players. F.ex. Chris Lord Alge, Jack Joseph Puig, Andy Wallace... the list goes on and on. In my experience synth players and vocalists are the worse mixers simply because they listen to high frequencies. Drummers are also good mixers IMO and guitarists usually do a good job if they give bass, kick and snare some space in a mix. I think it's all about the frequencies you are used to listening to and bass players listen to energy and that's why they are superior IMO. No I'm not a bass player. That's just the way it Pensado said it is so I trust that it's somewhat true.

 

[B36arin]

I've never had as much fun working on anything as when I produced my band's EP. Sure, I got at odds with one or two of the band members once or twice, but we all respect each other enough to understand that it's nothing personal. I'd hesitate to let anyone else produce our stuff, because I love doing it, I get better control of the arrangements and I am much more proud of the end product when I've done it myself.

 

[fatalforce]

I feel that this is the way things are going. Bands record their songs and have someone else mix/master. it sounds like a cost effective way to get a good product (that is if the band can record well, has good equipment, etc.). Drums will be the most difficult but I feel that you can get good DIs by yourself and maybe vocals

 

[amarshism]

I thought cla was a drummer?

 

[bryan_kilco]

I'll be in charge of this for about the 3rd time now.....We recently lost our bassist who took charge of an 8 song album, which never got completed due to the never ending search for a vocalist and having vocal tryouts. Now, we'll need to have to re track at least all the guitars and bass, and most likely drums too. I have more knowledge now and it makes me excited to take this position and see how well I can get my mix sounding.

At the same time, it drives me absolutely insane. It's all I can think about.....worrying and wondering about all the little shit we need to get (cables, stands, replace any broken mics, etc) and exactly how to go about everything and be organized.