Altitudes
Stay Frosty
Bottom line - Drugs are harmful to the others who are exposed to the people who use them. As much as I would like to say legalize drugs, that would never work. I'm with Enemy on this.
Hey, whered my DMT thread go!
- Thread starter Brooks
- Start date
at seattle metal fest i saw people doing meth and snorting cocaine in between destruction's set. No one at that show was harmed. There is no direct correlation, just indirect. Not everyone addicted to cocaine and heroin will have to rob people to keep their addiction alive, given they are legal. If they have a good job and can afford doing them, there is no harm to OTHERS if after work they go home with crack bought from 711 and they smoke it.
And plus, people still do those drugs which are illegal right now. Making shit illegal has never worked and has always helped organized crimes. examples are the prohibition and the current situation. Moreover people still get mugged by people to satisfy their narcotic cravings. So making them illegal has solved nothing in the first place, and helped organized crime.
Furthermore, having drugs legal will create a new industry of growing marijuana, coca, and manufacturing acid. You add a fat excise tax on those and thus, you have a lot more money into your budget. Then you have people working in those industries who now make money and pay taxes and pump money in the economy by spending it.
Enemy242
Member
making it illegal makes it harder to get, no normal person is going to go man today i wanna do cocaine, let me go ask the nearest drug dealer where i can score a ball. if its legal then people can just go to the store and try it out. and with your thing about people at the show not hurting anyone, they aren't going to rob someone at a show but my school which is in the suburbs has had to institute new lockerhall lockdowns because of all the heroin and coke addicts stealing ipods and phones to pay for thier addiction and they don't always get caught and go to jail. and maybe you don't know how drugs are priced but dude, even someone with a good job would have a tough time fueling a heroin or coke addiction. having a full blown heroin or coke addiction would cost someone about 500 dollars a week and it would just get higher as their tollerance builds, especially with heroin because you can't just stop without having problems. i'm with you on the not penalizing people who have some weed or acid or something and aren't hurting people and are being responsible, but full drug legalization won't ever work dude.
1 once they are legal, prices will signifcantly change given the supply and demand laws of economics. Maybe they will be more expensive, maybe they will be cheaper.
2 price is a good barrier in the way of people starting doing them. I would make having heroin on sale illegal. I would also regulate its use by having people who use them in a list based on their social security number. Yes, there will still be people mugging people who won't get caught steeling, not law enforcement will be perfect, but again this happens today too, so no difference there. Making shit legal with enough legal deterrents will actually decrease the use of that substance rather than keeping it illegal and leaving its factual regulation to the dealers.
they are not THAT much harder to get. Any Seattlelite interested enough can go buy cocaine from The Ave or from a metal show. You can go downtown at night and ask people who don't look like businessmen or cops for coke, and if you try hard enough you will still find it. My point is that if you really want to do those drugs you can do it with those substances either legal or illegal. I think having them legal is more advantageous than having them illegal and handing the well paying business of drugs to organized crime. Ilicit drugs are the strength of gangs and the modern day mafia.
Altitudes
Stay Frosty
you will never know until you try them.
wait, when was the last time the government tried making a certain substance illegal and it totally failed? The prohibition is the perfect historical example of why making shit illegal has practically failed.
Enemy242
Member
1. the price wouldn't be able to go down enough to make it affordable, thats almost definately sure.
2. do you really want everyone who does something to be in a list? thats sort of a slippery slope into having people on lists of use for other things with their social security number which is a little bit privacy invasive. also the stealing thing that happens today is nothing compared to what a bunch of heroin addicts would be, seriously maybe you have never met a heroin addict or seen what they do but they are fucking ruthless and will stop at nothing to get their fix if they're addicted enough, you gotta understand that.
also in relation to the being able to find stuff i know that in big cities it is possible to find stuff on the street like in seattle maybe you can find crack walking on the streets, in sf you can find it the same way too, but if it was legal then that means all around the country people would be able to walk into a store and find cocaine sitting on a shelf and that would increase its use which really is not a good thing. you can't find drugs like that in every town and mostly can only find it easily in the big cities so the widespread use would increase, and even in sf you can't find certain things walking down the street like dmt or ketamine or 2cb or something like that.
you just have to realize your all or nothing approach will not only never happen, but if it did it would be a bad thing for the country. legalizing some things though would be awesome because they wouldn't harm people if used right and the taxes made from them could help reduce debt and get contributed to more drug and other types of education.
I understand your point, but i still think those could be used to filter out idiots from society. if people are stupid enough to do it, then they will go to fucking jail and their lives will be ruined. Having those drugs available will bring the stupid and ignorant to the surface and they will jump on the bandwagon and use them. Then they will be done after they are put in jail, and will die from not using it while in jail.
I don't think it is a slippery slope to have your social security number on drug user list. Not wanting your name on that list is another reason for people not to start doing heroin. Before you could buy heroin in my vision of having it legal, you would have to go through training and signing forms about warnings about healthrisks and addiction. Fewer people will start doing it then in that case.
Not like what we have now, where nobody gets addicted and commits crimes for it.
"Simply put, if you believe other than me you are wrong". Real good tactic, there - you're king of the playground.
If your tactic was going to work, it would have worked a few billion dollars and a few years ago. Whether you like drugs or not, our current war is only making the problem worse.
Jeff
Enemy242
Member
people do get addicted and cause crimes for it now and having it even more available would make it even worse. and i also don't agree with the drug war, spending tons of money trying to bust weed and other things that are less harmful coming in is an amazing waste of money and the taxes off making weed legal would be a huge benefit, but in my mind there is no way to justify making meth, coke, and heroin legal.
I was being sarcastic...
EDIT: The price is insanely inflated, as the demand is high enough to warrant it. Legalizing it would make prices plummet - killing off organized crime as well as reducing the amount of theft necessary to fund habits - so I don't think that argument would help. People don't avoid heroin and speed because they're illegal (especially the ones who smoke pot), they avoid them because they do fucked up shit to anyone who gets near them. END EDIT
Drugs and alcohol are no excuse for violent behavior - we have violence and theft from the sober and peace from junkies. If people can't handle themselves when on drugs then they should be prosecuted for their actual crimes.
Alcohol can do insane things to people, but we don't see it banned - and do you remember why?
The main point is that we're only making the real problems - gang wars, theft for drug funding, et cetera (not to mention tons of problems abroad from countries like Colombia and Afghanistan whose economies have a huge hit coming from cocaine and opium, respectively, and who would be unbelievably better off without drug lords running everything) - worse. I think that legalizing those 'hard drugs' would reduce a lot of problems, and make other problems much more manageable. If people are stumbling around or causing fights while drunk, we toss them in the drunk tank - do you really think nothing would be done for public nuisances on any other substance?
I guess I'm coming from a different perspective - I'm not sold on the whole interfering-with-others'-behavior-in-any-respect-not-directly-harmful-to-me aspect of government, so I'd rather handle problems like violence and theft on their own than try to blame problems on substances and pretend that criminalizing them will accomplish something. When we ban the hard drugs we bring about problems with organized crime both here and abroad, the best thing we can do is learn to deal with cokeheads and speed freaks the same way we deal with drunks - lock them up if they cause problems, try to get people to either keep control or be controlled if they're a threat to anyone. You can't leave something like alcohol legal with all of the hell it 'causes' and then hold concerns like that for other drugs. Doesn't fucking work that way.
Jeff
EDIT: The price is insanely inflated, as the demand is high enough to warrant it. Legalizing it would make prices plummet - killing off organized crime as well as reducing the amount of theft necessary to fund habits - so I don't think that argument would help. People don't avoid heroin and speed because they're illegal (especially the ones who smoke pot), they avoid them because they do fucked up shit to anyone who gets near them. END EDIT
Drugs and alcohol are no excuse for violent behavior - we have violence and theft from the sober and peace from junkies. If people can't handle themselves when on drugs then they should be prosecuted for their actual crimes.
Alcohol can do insane things to people, but we don't see it banned - and do you remember why?
The main point is that we're only making the real problems - gang wars, theft for drug funding, et cetera (not to mention tons of problems abroad from countries like Colombia and Afghanistan whose economies have a huge hit coming from cocaine and opium, respectively, and who would be unbelievably better off without drug lords running everything) - worse. I think that legalizing those 'hard drugs' would reduce a lot of problems, and make other problems much more manageable. If people are stumbling around or causing fights while drunk, we toss them in the drunk tank - do you really think nothing would be done for public nuisances on any other substance?
I guess I'm coming from a different perspective - I'm not sold on the whole interfering-with-others'-behavior-in-any-respect-not-directly-harmful-to-me aspect of government, so I'd rather handle problems like violence and theft on their own than try to blame problems on substances and pretend that criminalizing them will accomplish something. When we ban the hard drugs we bring about problems with organized crime both here and abroad, the best thing we can do is learn to deal with cokeheads and speed freaks the same way we deal with drunks - lock them up if they cause problems, try to get people to either keep control or be controlled if they're a threat to anyone. You can't leave something like alcohol legal with all of the hell it 'causes' and then hold concerns like that for other drugs. Doesn't fucking work that way.
Jeff
Enemy242
Member
with the nature of how coke and speed are though, there aren't going to be many responsible users, you'll be locking up almost everyone to keep them under control. the ammount of people that get crazy and addicted to alcohol and cause problems is probably nothing compared to the people who use speed and coke. just from looking at the effects of coke and speed you can already tell it would cause a problem, sure it would solve the organized crime problem and such but if there was so much cocaine just flying everywhere that a ton more people were doing it, the world would become a lot more fucked up. there may be frat boys that get drunk and rowdy but on the other hand a lot of adults, parents whatever drink wine and have no problems, but i guarantee you if both of them were doing coke or speed they'd both get as rowdy and crazy, i doubt there would be anyone that can control something like that.
The legal drugs are taxable drugs. Legalizing Marijuana would destroy the paper industries, the textile industries, the drug industries and just about any industry which makes its profit on ignorant non-thinking sheep people who could certainly use a healthy dose of marijuana-induced reality.
Great Britain decriminalized possession of small, personal amounts of marijuana, and street crime almost instantaneously dropped 50%. And that doesn't count possession.
BUT HEY, BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POINT OF THIS THREAD!
DMT is not a drug! It is a NATURALLY OCCURRING TRYPTAMINE found in plants and animals! There is no reason that thread should have been deleted! No one spoke of methods of synthesizing it artificially! No one spoke of places to buy it illegally! It was a discussion of A NATURAL COMPOUND. NOT A DRUG.
And I want my thread back, cause this one sucks.
Great Britain decriminalized possession of small, personal amounts of marijuana, and street crime almost instantaneously dropped 50%. And that doesn't count possession.
BUT HEY, BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POINT OF THIS THREAD!
DMT is not a drug! It is a NATURALLY OCCURRING TRYPTAMINE found in plants and animals! There is no reason that thread should have been deleted! No one spoke of methods of synthesizing it artificially! No one spoke of places to buy it illegally! It was a discussion of A NATURAL COMPOUND. NOT A DRUG.
And I want my thread back, cause this one sucks.
And this is the best part right here, that the government believes it has the right to tell us what we can and cannot ingest, let alone a substance our body already naturally creates.
Ohh, and using the argument that legalizing drugs will cause more addiction and crime is pure bullshit speculation and is unfounded. There is way to much nonsense in this thread being seemingly passed off as "facts." Do your homework children.
Helllllooooo bullshit. This is one of those times you should probably stop talking, as it is obvious you are clueless about the facts of this issue.
Chromatose
Squid pro quo
I saw a show on one of those sciency channels about how upon dying the pineal gland releases a massive load of DMT, and as such this accounts for "near death experiences."
science 1, jesus 0
science 1, jesus 0
I know plenty of people who have gone on them and they don't turn into raving lunatics who hunger for human flesh. I've seen far more fights start between drunk people than wired people.
Jeff
Will Bozarth
Everlasting Godstopper
Reminiscence
Oblique and Nebulous
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