Hi! I'm a mac!

[James Murphy]

I once knew a PC user who could recognize sarcasm... ah, those were the days.

The one thing I can say about compatibility between Windows/Mac/Flavor of the Week and Linux is that I can jack all of the cores of those operating systems, run their programs under Linux, and get all of the same done. Sure, it's easier for Macs to access Unix-type programs (because of the built-in emulator in all of its idiot-proof glory... actually quite an accomplishment, I must say, taking the learning curve out of compiling) than the other way around, but I've gotten better speed using WINE in Linux for Windows programs than I have with Windows. There is something very wrong when a Windows 'simulator' does better than Windows proper, but it is not the first time - Bleem! was better than PlayStation, Skype kicks the shit out of 'traditional' phones, an Etch-A-Sketch simulates perfectly Apple ][c (and reboots faster, at that)... ah, it's good to be free.

I can see what you're saying about capital investment being necessary and proper, but... I'd think that a knowledge investment would be more useful than a monetary investment, because you can't buy smart and you can't sell stupid (as every college of business someday will learn) - and if you have on one hand some rich daddy's girl deciding that she wants to be Shakira one day, and going off and buy a Mac Pro, a Firepod, a ribbon mic, and a big table o' knobs... but on the other hand the guy who plays with numbers at school but can't get off the ground despite his knowledge because he has loans, rent, and meals to pay off, you've missed the point. I'm in school for hard science and math right now, serving my time for the day I'll get to play with particle accelerators that make little things go really boom really fast, and I'm at the same time tutoring for people who can afford a college education but by no means are capable of any real demands. For some people, money is not an object, and while I agree that cash up front keeps some trash out back, it's not always the best way of 'filtering' the people who want to be gods in a weekend.

Jeff

wha?

nuclear physics and semantics aside i want to adress what seems like a mild insinuation that anyone who invests money is trying to "buy their way" into the idustry.. i'm sure those people exist, but they don't get far and i was not speaking of anything of the sort... i am not made of money... i'm working my ass off to pay off my gear, and i'm not getting the work i get by showing off the size of hard drives

i really don't get your point..... all i've said is that if you want to enter a particular marketplace and do it properly you have to have the right tools... having the right knowledge, smarts, savvy... all of that is a given. and anyway, you can become a great producer without owning one piece of gear... and make tons of money if you are really, really good.... i was very clearly speaking of marketing oneself AND one's equipment as a package, which is what it seems like most folks on this forum are keen to do, judging by all the studios that are being built.

 

[Lopes]

*sigh*.. it was sarcasm Lopes...

As was mine.

 

[James Murphy]

OK.... Check it.... everything i've posted in this thread has been simply to reply to the insinuation that Mac users are marketing victims or any stupider on average than PC users... NOT to change anyone's mind about what platform to use. i do not care what you use.

ALSO, anything that i've said in a "snobby" way was ON PURPOSE for the sake of humour....

now RELAX and go play World of Warcraft on yer souped up PC wondermachines... i have a CD to mix on the Mac those darn cute television adverts forced me to buy.


sorry,lol... i meant to say relax and go make me a spreadsheet and a powerpoint presentation on why i'm wrong.



no no... just kidding, seriously..... juust kidding .... cross my heart. :danceboy:

 

[JBroll]

wha?

nuclear physics and semantics aside i want to adress what seems like a mild insinuation that anyone who invests money is trying to "buy their way" into the idustry.. i'm sure those people exist, but they don't get far and i was not speaking of anything of the sort... i am not made of money... i'm working my ass off to pay off my gear, and i'm not getting the work i get by showing off the size of hard drives

i really don't get your point..... all i've said is that if you want to enter a particular marketplace and do it properly you have to have the right tools... having the right knowledge, smarts, savvy... all of that is a given. and anyway, you can become a great producer without owning one piece of gear... and make tons of money if you are really, really good.... i was very clearly speaking of marketing oneself AND one's equipment as a package, which is what it seems like most folks on this forum are keen to do, judging by all the studios that are being built.

I'm not insinuating that one can buy his way into the industry and do well, I'm saying that in response to

Free is great, but no one ever said becoming an audio pro was going to be cheap, much less free. there is, as with any other profession, a certain amount of capital investment just to be viable, regardless of what platform you use. this is not only simply the way it is, it's also the way it should be.

(namely, 'capital investment' and 'the way it should be' possibly implying a message against being an audio pro for free) in this day and age knowing how to use what is available to get a good result should be the entry fee, not having expensive shinies. If I'm going to get a record mixed, I don't care if there are ten thousand knobs on every wall or if the engineer sacrifices a baby lamb to bring the bass up in the mix - if the producer has the knowledge, free or expensive toys won't matter. My point was that I agree about there being a 'fee for admission', so to speak, to keep a high quality standard, but 'free' should not speak against credibility or usability as the level of competence, and not the price tag, is what's being advertised.

When I'm tempted to buy a nice expensive new piece of shiny, I always think for a second about the 'Diamond Dave' videos and all of the gear surrounding a crackpot who makes Jar-Jar Binks sound like a therapist, and wonder why price seems to be assumed to correspond to quality. I realize that a lot of things just can't be gotten for free, or with knowledge alone, but apart from basic materials (I've built stompboxes and a preamp-like thing for under $20 thanks to Mouser Electronics and Radio Shack, I'm all but giving up on buying toys instead of making them) I don't see why a 'capital investment' should be much about money.

Oh, and the innards picture... if I 'took apart' a Mac and saw that, I wouldn't be convinced that I had taken it apart enough. I can make any computer-like thing look as messy as the box on the right, and I can hide all of the cables and things in little aluminum boxes and look like the one on the left - thanks to Intel coming along and making a Mac something I'd consider, a PC is a Mac, even if the latter appears more as a 'safety scissors' type of the former.

Jeff

 

[Ermz]

We should do a tally of how many times this exact thread has appeared on the forum, and how many times everyone has blown the entire thing out of proportion.

I personally just hate the Mac ads. That sort of pompous attitude to marketing which needs to denigrate another platform in order to prove its own worth isn't doing much for the average Mac user's reputation.

On Windows' end I hate Vista... because it's a piece of shit. I actually hate Windows as well. It's all just bloatware shit that you need to spend a few hours tweaking to disable all the 'user-friendly' bullshit M$ have bundled with it. It just so happens that all the software and games I use are written more or less exclusively for Windows, so I'm stuck with using it. Shit happens.

Short of that, I don't care. It's a computer, whichever way you look at it. I've had terrible experiences with Macs, but hey that's just me. I use a PC because that's more efficient and pleasing to me. Others use Macs for the same reasons. Whatever floats your boat, sheesh.

But if there's gonna be any pictures comparing the insides of a Mac and PC, the PC should probably be built by someone who takes pride in it, and has a relatively modern machine, hence:

 

[JBroll]

That's a tasty machine, and exactly why I prefer to build my own PCs than bastardize a Mac to make it the way I want it.

What got somewhat amusing was that rather than denigrating machines, and then denigrating machine users, we seemed to denigrate the denigration of machines, and then denigrate the machines and the users alike, and then fail to remember what exactly it was we were denigrating. I'm not to into the whole beating-a-dead-horse-with-another-dead-horse thing any more than you are, but this one took some amusing turns.

...but goddamn, that's a tasty machine.

Jeff

 

[James Murphy]

I'm not insinuating that one can buy his way into the industry and do well, I'm saying that in response to



(namely, 'capital investment' and 'the way it should be' possibly implying a message against being an audio pro for free) in this day and age knowing how to use what is available to get a good result should be the entry fee, not having expensive shinies. If I'm going to get a record mixed, I don't care if there are ten thousand knobs on every wall or if the engineer sacrifices a baby lamb to bring the bass up in the mix - if the producer has the knowledge, free or expensive toys won't matter. My point was that I agree about there being a 'fee for admission', so to speak, to keep a high quality standard, but 'free' should not speak against credibility or usability as the level of competence, and not the price tag, is what's being advertised.

When I'm tempted to buy a nice expensive new piece of shiny, I always think for a second about the 'Diamond Dave' videos and all of the gear surrounding a crackpot who makes Jar-Jar Binks sound like a therapist, and wonder why price seems to be assumed to correspond to quality. I realize that a lot of things just can't be gotten for free, or with knowledge alone, but apart from basic materials (I've built stompboxes and a preamp-like thing for under $20 thanks to Mouser Electronics and Radio Shack, I'm all but giving up on buying toys instead of making them) I don't see why a 'capital investment' should be much about money.

Oh, and the innards picture... if I 'took apart' a Mac and saw that, I wouldn't be convinced that I had taken it apart enough. I can make any computer-like thing look as messy as the box on the right, and I can hide all of the cables and things in little aluminum boxes and look like the one on the left - thanks to Intel coming along and making a Mac something I'd consider, a PC is a Mac, even if the latter appears more as a 'safety scissors' type of the former.

Jeff

jesus man.. you just want to argue so bad that you'll take any avenue to continue it.... YOU ARE STILL ACCUSING ME OF SAYING YOU have TO HAVE EXPENSIVE GEAR TO MAKE IT IN MUSIC AND I DID NOT.. .. YOU DO have to have a significant investment in order to be a studio that bigger labels will use because they will expect you to be compatible with anyone else they may decide to send a project to after you or deliever in a format they epxect with features they expect to be in tact intact in the sessions... i have found this out very pointedly recently...you are the one that keeps mentioning "shinies" and are latched on to the concept that is important to anyone other than the label paying the studio, which is what i was talking about. i also CLEARLY said that to make it as a producer/engineer only YOU NEEDN"T HAVE A SINGLE PIECE OF GEAR TO YOUR NAME.... how can you simply lay into me and not even acknlowlege that i've already said this... lol.... it's too much for one night, i'm dyin' ovah heyah


so just stop with this and address what i actually said.... and i have already clarified anything that could possibly have been unclear.... including the fact that my POSTS are just goofing around... i know full well that this was a messed up PC pic with all the wires, for instance ... it was an attempt to be funny that was clearly lost on you... man, i am really.... really tired of this one now....lol.. you guys kill me... i mean i even put up a pic of a G3 being used as a beer tap for Xst's sake!

do what you want.. build what you want.... just make music (or build computers)....

i deeply, deeply apologize... sincerly.. from the heart ya'll... for daring to say that i didn't pick macs due to a marketing campaign, for having the stones to insinuate the dirty lie that to work as a pro studio owner you have to have pro gear, for displaying the unmitigated gall to make jokes at the expense of Microsoft/PCs in a thread that started out with a joke at the expense of MacOS/Apple computers... how dare i?



jeezus titty-fuckin' Xst

 

[LSD-Studio]

you guys are funny.....

I use both, cause for me they're working machines and like james said about tools...i use the tool that suits the work best..
sometimes a pc sometimes a my mac .....
and yes i prefer working on a mac and all my 40gigs of porn are on a pc....


so I'm a traitor in both worlds......I don't care.....

i rather use tools than argue about them...

 

[Mulder]

don't need another Linear Phase EQ, already have 2. love 'em both.

Your bad. This thingie is above Weiss, Massenburg & stuff. Not my words.

Anyway, I'm off to train the stooduntz to work behind Pyramix. That's a piece of professional software that smart people use to make SACD's. Runs on WinXP. Broadcast & classical world. Like BBC. Like ORTF.

Murf, the first Mac I bought was a IIci. Cost me a fortune. Ran Session 8 on it. The last one was a MDDdual 867. Cost me a fortune in downtime, cos OSX.2.8 wasn't quite optimized yet, everything I needed ran in carbon.

Ofcourse it looked great, and had a fan-tas-tic coolingfan inside. Wich made an enormous (and infamous) amount of noise. Apple tried to keep up with the megahertz 'mythe' by overclocking all their cpu's before bowing to Intel. The G5's with watercooling inside will last about three years, then it will break. Admitted by Apple. A CPU that needs 700 watts for normal work is even worse than a Pentium 4. Doesn't matter how nice you wrap your alubrushed case around it. If it sucks, it sucks.

Your quad is from a slightly newer generation, IBM managed to shrink the CPUdie at last, but never made it to the promised three gigahertz.

And ofcourse we're not talking about Dell or Compaq when comparing Apples and Computers, but brands like these. Stuff that runs the internet. It even costs more, but that's because it's prostuff.

Apple released their 'Xserve' once.. It was a joke compared to real servers. Only good thing about it was that they gave the software away, but it performed so poor that -again-, nobody cared.

Anyway, now they can put Intel in it, but I wonder if it'll help them to be taken seriously. Cos the hot air doesn't only comes out the back of their products.

 

[James Murphy]

Your bad. This thingie is above Weiss, Massenburg & stuff. Not my words.

Anyway, I'm off to train the stooduntz to work behind Pyramix. That's a piece of professional software that smart people use to make SACD's. Runs on WinXP. Broadcast & classical world. Like BBC. Like ORTF.

Murf, the first Mac I bought was a IIci. Cost me a fortune. Ran Session 8 on it. The last one was a MDDdual 867. Cost me a fortune in downtime, cos OSX.2.8 wasn't quite optimized yet, everything I needed ran in carbon.

Ofcourse it looked great, and had a fan-tas-tic coolingfan inside. Wich made an enormous (and infamous) amount of noise. Apple tried to keep up with the megahertz 'mythe' by overclocking all their cpu's before bowing to Intel. The G5's with watercooling inside will last about three years, then it will break. Admitted by Apple. A CPU that needs 700 watts for normal work is even worse than a Pentium 4. Doesn't matter how nice you wrap your alubrushed case around it. If it sucks, it sucks.

Your quad is from a slightly newer generation, IBM managed to shrink the CPUdie at last, but never made it to the promised three gigahertz.

And ofcourse we're not talking about Dell or Compaq when comparing Apples and Computers, but brands like these. Stuff that runs the internet. It even costs more, but that's because it's prostuff.

Apple released their 'Xserve' once.. It was a joke compared to real servers. Only good thing about it was that they gave the software away, but it performed so poor that -again-, nobody cared.

Anyway, now they can put Intel in it, but I wonder if it'll help them to be taken seriously. Cos the hot air doesn't only comes out the back of their products.

you got me there.. i don't have any software to author already-dead-at-the-starting-gate formats like SACD (even though i own several titles and have an SACD compatible player and would buy more if the SACD and DVD-A sections at all the stores i shop at would stop shrinking and disappearing).... and all that "smart bad stuff" you said after that about macs makes my brain hurt... so i'm just gunna quit using macs and get a "pro" PC... i'm all over it... just as soon as my Mac dies, which thanks to your input i'm certain will happen any time now.

you guys seem to forget that my main point in speaking up in this thread was to make the point that i wasn't a victim of a mareketing technique to buy macs... i actually bought the first one because it ran the software that i wanted and i've been using them since, alongside PC's for the last several years as well.

but who am i to argue with conservatory professors and budding nuclear physicists about whether Macs are good computers or not, regardless of my experience? i'm just a lowly working producer.

clearly i'm wrong about liking my Macs just fine.



... and you guys have the stones to talk about the smugness of Mac users.... good grief.

 

[Mulder]

you got me there.. i don't have any aoftware to author already dead at the starting gate formats like SACD (even though i won several titles and have an SACD compatible player).... and all that "smart bad stuff" you said after that about macs makes my brain hurt... so i'm just gunna quit using macs and get a "pro" PC... i'm all over it... just as soon as my Mac dies, which thanks to your input i'm certain will happen any time now.

Bow to me, lowly fruitfornucator!

and you all seem to forget that my ONLY point in speaking up in this thread was to speak up that i wasn't a victim of a mareketing technique to buy macs... i bought the first one because it ran the software that i wanted and i've been using them since, alongside PC's for the last several years as well.

Nah, you were ranting your ass off.

but who am i to argue with conservatory professors and budding nuclear physicists about wether Macs are good computers are not, regardless of my experience? i'm just a lowly working producer.

Your Waves LinEQ -just guessing- seems to be a lofi ripoff of the Algo Red EQ (the guys just told me, I'll slap them if they're wrong). Waves bought a licence to use it, along with the Algo noisereductionstuff.

Mr. Richardson was so nice to share some GML84 eqsettings he uses over his guitargroups with us. If you put in a Waves lineq, or a Sony, you don't get the sound. The Algo red eq eats up your whole cpu, and needs a latency of about three seconds to do its magic. But what comes out is the difference between masturbation and intercourse.

... and you guys have the stones to talk about the smugness of Mac users.... lol.

Right back at ya!

 

[James Murphy]

how's this for a rant.... CR doesn't use a plug in for those eq settings he uses the actual hardware GML eq.... and using any plug-in that has 3 seconds of latency and costs that much (i checked the link, it's about 1200 english pounds) which is pretty close to $2000 seems silly since you could just buy the real deal and deal with much less latency compensation management with the much lower amount of time needed to route signal out to a hardware eq and back in to the system. And the hardware unit, as pretty much all top end GML gear, will always work fine, not matter what computer you use... and will never need a paid upgrade.... that alone makes the extra grand to get that unit worth it to me.

thanks, despite that LinEQ and LinMB are anything but "lo-fi", and that i never use LinEq for guitars anyway, your argument has helped me make up my mind... i'm going to buy the GML hardware.

rant over



ps.... normally i wouldn't bother because i would assume it was obvious, but with this forum's track record of failing to recognize sarcasm i feel i need to point this out..... when i said i would switch to PC "just as soon as my Mac dies, which thanks to your input i'm certain will happen any time now.", i was being saracastic. if anyone reading this right now is surprised upon doing so, and didn't catch the sarcasm when i wrote it in the post... well...

 

[Mulder]

how's this for a rant.... CR doesn't use a plug in for those eq settings he uses the actual hardware GML eq....

My wrong, it was a GML8200. I knew it was outboard though.

and using any plug in that causes 3 seconds of latency and costs that much (i checked the link, it's about 1200 english pounds) which is pretty close to $2000.. i'd rather just buy the real deal and deal with much less latency compensation management with the much lower amount of time needed to route signal out to a hardware eq and back in to the system.

Ok, but it really sounds better. It's a damn fine eq. And there are some capable DAW's outthere that render this eq just fine. Put it on every track of your production... And 'latency compensation management' sounds like you need an extra computer to do that trick. The fact that Digi was so slow with implementing it doesn't mean it's hard to do.. It's just shifting tracks.. As long as you're in mixdown who cares.

and the hardware unit, as pretty much all top end GML gear, will always work...

LOL!!! Last time I worked in Wisseloord I had a nice chat with the THREE technicians they employed to keep the SSL's up and running! Nah, I prefer a cpu above a desk. Can't afford it for one, although the (good) SSL's come in pretty cheap nowadays. Still like the in-the-box method better. Save everything, render your tracks, stuff like that.

and will never need a paid upgrade.... that alone makes the extra grand to get that unit worth it to me.

If it breaks down they'll fix it for free. Yeah right.

thanks, despite that LinEQ and LinMB are anything but "lofi", and that i never use LinEq for guitars anyway, your argument has helped me make up my mind... i'm gong to buy the GML.

At least try the demo. Look at Samplitude or Sequoia. They host (and freeze) the Red eq just fine. For much less than the outboardbox you get better quality on every track.

And btw, one of the reasons it sounds so good is because the eq upsamples the signal, makes it 'SACD'quality so to say.

 

[James Murphy]

i prefer ITB, as well.... and and i know all about the breakdown prone SSL.. but we were not discussing a console, we were discussing one outoard 2-channel EQ.

and yeah, my PT rig has no problem handling heavy latency compensation, i'd rather just have the EQ, which i'm sure will need far far less repair over years, properly taken care of, than any plug in will need upgrades.

 

[greyskull]

I'm sadly a pc user whos a mac user at heart, just still saving...
I have to say that imho in the world of running pro tools, macs just whoop pcs,
way way more stable, better at handling plugins and the thing doesnt look like its about to cry when the cpu gets to 70%plus it just smiles and says,
"yeah what else have you got?" fewer drop outs etc
but then again thats my experiance, others may disagree,
This is i must hasten to add is based upon professional experience with both in a pro studio.

But at the end of the day, what works for some might not for others, the computer is but a tool. and i choose you Mac. i can turn it on and it will work.
fantastic.

i can count on one finger the ammount of times a mac has gone down on me (oooh err) in a session.

I think as usual this particular line of discussion has come to the inevitable result,
carnage.

 

[Nitronium Blood]

Have not you guys seen 'Pirates Of The Sillicon Valley'?

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs totally get it on. Trust me.

 

[GeertSamuel]

MAC-user isn't something you are..but being a MAC-user is a lifestyle..

Since I was 12 I've worked on a Mac, have had 1 PC and it failed on me!! Now 10 years later I have owned a G3, Imac, G4 and now a G5...all 2nd hand, and they ALL worked perfectly when I got the upgrade to a newer mac, I actually still have the G3 and it still kicks any PC i've got running here on the office (design company)...

 

[Mutant]

running pro tools
...
better at handling plugins and the thing doesnt look like its about to cry when the cpu gets to 70%
...
fewer drop outs etc

How about:

600 tracks with SSL Channel strip on every track(buffer of 1024)and not a prob. 30% CPU left.

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showpost.php?p=56643&postcount=13

 

[Mutant]

And no i'm not trying to say Reaper is better than Pro Tools (yet).

 

[greyskull]

hmmmmmmm
still getting a mac