Homophobia

[monoxide_child]

i wanna this to be a thread about homoPHOBIA, not a debate about what causes homosexuality or what causes gender identity disorder, i don't want to talk about transgenderism and the "false advertizing" aspect of it

i want to talk about homophobia
basically i want someone else to fully expain it to me
if 2 definively masculine-looking guys in wife-beaters with goatees decide to play "tonsil hockey", in the middle of McDonald's, how the hell is this really any MORE innapropriate than a hetero couple doing the exact same thing?
yeah, it would be wrong, but really it's only wrong in the way it would be wrong for a hetero couple to do the same thing

and again, i don't want to go into cross-dressing, transgendered people, gender identity disorder, etc, these are things that should be a whole different thread if you want to talk about them

 

[razoredge]

this is a bad topic, many of those other things you mentioned in the last paragraph were in a thread last year and trust me it totally sucked. Some people just cant accept another point of the view.... they are heterophobes..... lol

the word homophobia to me is nothing more than a diminutive weapon used againt those unwilling to accept IN YER FACE homosexual activity. Nothing more, nothing less. Phobia = irrational persistant fear. No one is a feared of homos = bogus term. I guess it makes the term itself a phobia because its a totally irrational name to call people... used by people that are afraid of straight people firm in their beliefs of what is appropriate behavior.

 

[BloodSword]

Well, if 2 masculine-looking guys are "gettin close" in a McDonalds, I gaurantee I'll never go in their and order food. And if their wife-beaters, I will go in, get them and take them outside and say, "now beat on me fuckhead." To me, that's a poor example that you give. Probably why I gave a stupid answer. But, if that scenario occurred, I would have no choice(being wife beaters) but to rip off their heads and shit down their necks.

 

[monoxide_child]

Well, if 2 masculine-looking guys are "gettin close" in a McDonalds, I gaurantee I'll never go in their and order food. And if their wife-beaters, I will go in, get them and take them outside and say, "now beat on me fuckhead." To me, that's a poor example that you give. Probably why I gave a stupid answer. But, if that scenario occurred, I would have no choice(being wife beaters) but to rip off their heads and shit down their necks.

i meant the term "wife beater" as a type of shirt, the white tanktop shirts that the wife beating guys wear on "cops"

what i meant to say was, if 2 guys that were both unmistakeably male, (as opposed to one being a drag queen) were seen french kissing in McDonald's, how would that be MORE innapropriate than a hetero couple doing the same thing?
i was actually trying to ask a question here

 

[razoredge]

go obsurb and see if you can find the answer, that is for yourself. The answer for any other person would depend on their various thresholds.

 

[Ocelot2010]

People these days aren't used to seeing two people of the same sex making out because it's not very common. Wheras people are more used to seeing heteros making out because it's far more common, because it's always been more socially acceptable.

 

[BloodSword]

i meant the term "wife beater" as a type of shirt, the white tanktop shirts that the wife beating guys wear on "cops"

what i meant to say was, if 2 guys that were both unmistakeably male, (as opposed to one being a drag queen) were seen french kissing in McDonald's, how would that be MORE innapropriate than a hetero couple doing the same thing?
i was actually trying to ask a question here

I never heard the term "wife beater" applied to a shirt before. They wear these things on "cops."? Anyway, in trying to respond to your question, It seems that according to "societal" values, 2 guys locked in a wet French kiss in a McDonalds is more than innapropriate. It's just not considered "normal" behaviour. For me, as a man, I would find that repugnant, in that, I can respect what others do behind "closed" doors, but don't do it in public. A hetero couple doing the "kiss" is more acceptable, more the norm. I believe it's human nature, and some don't buy into homosexuality. It's certainly not for me. I can't even imagine that scenario. People should have the right to express themselves, but should use disgression and not have such a cavalier attitude about it. What would our children think, seems like the more appropriate question.

 

[Vimana]

Homo = man. Phobia = Fear of.

 

[Vossyrus]

Two men kissing at a McDonalds is no different from a hetero couple doing the same. It's hypocritical to think otherwise. Whether or not "society" views such acts as acceptable or not is irrelevant. How many people have a problem with seeing a straight couple kissing in public? How about an Asian couple? Probably none in either case...but two gay men, and suddenly it's a problem. Telling me that you're put off by seeing that is no different from telling me you won't go to McDonalds because the cashier isn't white. Prejduiced or racist, it's the same principle. We live in a world that is still very homophobic, and there's no reason for it.

Homophobia is partial to many people because they're ignorant and cannot see past their own narrowmindedness. It's no so much a fear but an unreasonable dislike and lack of understanding towards those that are homosexual. Men in particular are homophobic, and usually only have an issue with gay men.

 

[razoredge]

Two men kissing at a McDonalds is no different from a hetero couple doing the same. It's hypocritical to think otherwise. Whether or not "society" views such acts as acceptable or not is irrelevant. How many people have a problem with seeing a straight couple kissing in public? How about an Asian couple? Probably none in either case...but two gay men, and suddenly it's a problem. Telling me that you're put off by seeing that is no different from telling me you won't go to McDonalds because the cashier isn't white. Prejduiced or racist, it's the same principle. We live in a world that is still very homophobic, and there's no reason for it.

Homophobia is partial to many people because they're ignorant and cannot see past their own narrowmindedness. It's no so much a fear but an unreasonable dislike and lack of understanding towards those that are homosexual. Men in particular are homophobic, and usually only have an issue with gay men.

Sorry you are totally wrong, misinformed, ignorant and narrow minded. In the first place people have a right to feel however they want about it or anything else. A natural reaction to a grotesque situation is an inherent right... no differnt than people that dont get involved with doctoring,health care or emergency rescue... it gives them the creeps. For example I dont hunt, I couldnt kill a four legger and certainly not cut it up and bleed it out. I have friends that do hunt and do all that stuff, but guess what they dont do it around me... nor can they force me to spectate. The thing is hunting is a natural inherent function along with eating. Two men swapping spit isnt natural, doing it in public has an alternate agenda. Chances of seeing normal couples acting sexually aggessive in public are slim, however this is not the case with little gay boys, they always seem to have something to prove.

Once again, no one is afraid of homos or threatened by them or any of the other panzy assed methods used to somehow make normal straight people feel guilt for being grossed out by freakish behavior... and that is TOTALLY relevent and the reality you are just going ot have to deal with. Homophobia is a bogus term, however "queer" is not because that is exactly how most straight people feel inside upon observing same sex, sex acts.... yet out of decency we have dropped the term and adopted the term "gay" which only 30 years ago meant something totally different and was in common use under its origional defination.

So the terms homophobe, racist and bigot are what they are, irrelevent distractions meant to impose guilt on normal well grounded people having natural inherent reactions to that which grosses them out or impedes on territory. Try all one wants such terms deflect off me.
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Bloodsword - Im surprised you never heard that term wife beater shirt, its been around for a few decades that I recall. Another bogus term because I wear sleeveless shirts as often as I can in the summer and Im certainly no woman beater.

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

Chances of seeing normal couples acting sexually aggessive in public are slim, however this is not the case with little gay boys, they always seem to have something to prove.

I don't know where you live, but where I live this would be classified as a crock of shit. I've seen a lot of couples (and I for one have done it too) getting pretty touchy in public.

doing it in public has an alternate agenda.

How exactly is it a different agenda?

[ Two men swapping spit isnt natural

How is it not natural?

, however this is not the case with little gay boys, they always seem to have something to prove.

This is just their natural reaction to a society that's reluctant to tolerate such behavior. What exactly is wrong with it?

As for the rest of your post, I believe you got a lot of good opinions. However, even If I do admit that I get put off by such behavior I do agree with Vossyrus' that there is a lot of homophobia in this world. Razor, don't you realize that gay people have gotten a lot of shit just because of who they are?

 

[Vossyrus]

Sorry you are totally wrong, misinformed, ignorant and narrow minded. In the first place people have a right to feel however they want about it or anything else. A natural reaction to a grotesque situation is an inherent right... no differnt than people that dont get involved with doctoring,health care or emergency rescue... it gives them the creeps. For example I dont hunt, I couldnt kill a four legger and certainly not cut it up and bleed it out. I have friends that do hunt and do all that stuff, but guess what they dont do it around me... nor can they force me to spectate. The thing is hunting is a natural inherent function along with eating.

Yes, you have a right to your opinion just as homophobe or racist does, and good for you!

Two men swapping spit isnt natural, doing it in public has an alternate agenda.

Please explain how two men "swapping spit" is unnatural? How about two men holding hands, is that unnatural too? Have you are would you ever hold hands with another guy? Would the simple act of doing so be disgusting or would it be the exact same thing as holding hands with a girl?

Chances of seeing normal couples acting sexually aggessive in public are slim, however this is not the case with little gay boys, they always seem to have something to prove.

You have got to be joking, I see this all the time with hetero couples. And not to mention there are far less homosexual couples in comparison, so I don't see how your comment would be logical unless you actually live in a gay community.

And the only thing that homosexuals are out to prove is that they are no different from heterosexuals, and that they should have the same, equal rights! Which in a lot of places, they unfortunately don't or can't have because of people like you. Homosexuals don't want "special treatment" or to be treated differently and that is the whole point.

Once again, no one is afraid of homos or threatened by them or any of the other panzy assed methods used to somehow make normal straight people feel guilt for being grossed out by freakish behavior... and that is TOTALLY relevent and the reality you are just going ot have to deal with. Homophobia is a bogus term, however "queer" is not because that is exactly how most straight people feel inside upon observing same sex, sex acts.... yet out of decency we have dropped the term and adopted the term "gay" which only 30 years ago meant something totally different and was in common use under its origional defination.

So the terms homophobe, racist and bigot are what they are, irrelevent distractions meant to impose guilt on normal well grounded people having natural inherent reactions to that which grosses them out or impedes on territory. Try all one wants such terms deflect off me.

And I've already given a pretty basic definition to what homophobia is, but even so some people do fear homosexuality in a sense because they ignorantly believe and fear that if society becomes more accepting to homosexuality, than the rate of homosexuality will increase - which is false! It's only "true" to those who believe homosexuality is a recent phenomenon, and a result of choice - in which case, these people are uneducated and ignorant.

 

[BloodSword]

Two men kissing at a McDonalds is no different from a hetero couple doing the same. It's hypocritical to think otherwise. Whether or not "society" views such acts as acceptable or not is irrelevant. How many people have a problem with seeing a straight couple kissing in public? How about an Asian couple? Probably none in either case...but two gay men, and suddenly it's a problem. Telling me that you're put off by seeing that is no different from telling me you won't goMcDonalds because the cashier isn't white. Prejduiced or racist, it's the same principle. We live in a world that is still very homophobic, and there's no reason for it.

Homophobia is partial to many people because they're ignorant and cannot see past their own narrowmindedness. It's no so much a fear but an unreasonable dislike and lack of understanding towards those that are homosexual. Men in particular are homophobic, and usually only have an issue with gay men.

Is this comment directed generally, or at me? Unfortunately, for you "society"is not accepting of this, is what I'm trying to convey. Your sniping at people, for the views they have about what is appropriate or acceptable,and saying for the "gay" society, we don't have to respond to basically ignorant people. I don't think your a gigantic idiot but, implying that I would not go into a McDonalds if the cashier was not white and trying to distinguish a parallel, to me being a rascist, as it were, is absolutely presumptious and arrogant on your part. Where do you people come from? When ever I come on UM, I always ask myself that question, in reading some of these posts. In a fair view, you have no reason to snipe at me, if you can't take the sniping back at you. Don't judge me. I've done very well with people in all walks of life, because I try and understand what someone is saying. I pay attention to what deserves my attention. Look, if your not part of the solution, then your part of the problem. If you are so all-knowing then provide an answer for me. What about our children? If you read this far, I'm "old as dirt", so my goals and aspirations are for children and helping them to attain education for life, not just from books but,from the "street" as well. Many lessons have I learned to impart to them. And this will help them grow into intelligent humans. So, ask yourself, if your with an impressionable child or 2,whether they are your children or not, and you come upon the "manly men of McDonalds" and they ask you, "why are those 2 guys doing that? What will you say to them? Please, in answering, don't skirt the issue.

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

So, ask yourself, if your with an impressionable child or 2,whether they are your children or not, and you come upon the "manly men of McDonalds" and they ask you, "why are those 2 guys doing that? What will you say to them? Please, in answering, don't skirt the issue.

You're part of the problem by being a bigot and teaching your children how to be intolerant and hateful towards other people. Are you really so damn stupid that you don't understand Vossyrus' point about racism? Are you not able to see that by being intolerant towards gay people it is all the same as racism? (intolerance towards people of other colors).

To be honest I don't even know why you draw the children card to this discussion, that's just a scapegoat if anything. Explaining to children about why two men are kissing is just as difficult as talking to them about drug abuse, sex, rape, poverty and crime. Jesus christ, there's lots of unspeakable acts we humans do everyday and kids see them on every corner, but for some reason or another you seem to care more about how should you explain to them why are two guys holding hands. Why do you feel compelled to use kids as an excuse to shun people that have different viewpoints from yours?

 

[razoredge]

good lord ! I agree with Bloodsword... "where do you people come from?" only I would say "where are you people coming from?" Yet I know... young, idealistic, brainwashed by the bleeding heart society. Its easily identifiable by the side stepping and distractions that are indulged... like the name calling game, bigot, racist, homophobe... all attempts at imposing guilt... AS I ALREADY SAID. All while conviently ignoring the overall picture of these complicated issues, trying to simplify it as the vast majority of people are the fucked up ones.

Either you get the fact that their are natural reactions to unnatural occurances or you dont, pretty simple stuff. Perhaps it takes more years of honest observation and evaluation to understand. Perhaps you have a vested interest in but one set of final results...... whos to say. I was only explaining why this happens and answering the origional question of the topic, homophobia does not exist, it is just a verbal leverage machine, and a poorly engineered one at that.

One observation/conclusion I have only come to realize in recent years is that those who are fucked up go out of their way to make everyone else appear to be the fucked up people. For example, its very common amounst those with some kind of mental trama/drama to tell everyone that pisses them off or doesnt cater to their needs that they are the sick ones. Same thing occurs around other human traits such as jelousy, greed and arrogance.

It all just requires looking at things in their entirity, with a sound mind that is clear of any outside influences and their distractions. One should not question others for their answers but find them on their own, a harder process than the easy cop out of adapting the latest rage in pop culture social thinking. These are but trends that always fail to accomplish their goals of erasing the history of mankind.

Best of luck with your dilemmas.

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

One observation/conclusion I have only come to realize in recent years is that those who are fucked up go out of their way to make everyone else appear to be the fucked up people. For example, its very common amounst those with some kind of mental trama/drama to tell everyone that pisses them off or doesnt cater to their needs that they are the sick ones. Same thing occurs around other human traits such as jelousy, greed and arrogance.

You're quite a piece of work. If you are going to get into a discussion and you find yourself on the fence, i'd suggest you at least try to come with some sort of rebuttal instead of going around what's being said to you.

[All while conviently ignoring the overall picture of these complicated issues, trying to simplify it as the vast majority of people are the fucked up ones.

So those who have gay tendencies are fucked up?

[Either you get the fact that their are natural reactions to unnatural occurances or you dont, pretty simple stuff.

Don't father me, that's not going to fly. I'm going to make it even easier for you. Stop saying the aforementioned behavior is unnatural when it's perfectly natural. Last time I checked homosexual behavior does happen in the animal kingdom (that is related to nature, right? ) and quite often I might add, so questioning its natural state it's stretching a bit too far.

Either you get the fact that their are natural reactions to unnatural occurances or you dont, pretty simple stuff. Perhaps it takes more years of honest observation and evaluation to understand.

What does years have to do with anything? it just takes brains and a little common sense to see that what you just said it is quite farfetched and incorrect.

[It all just requires looking at things in their entirity, with a sound mind that is clear of any outside influences and their distractions. One should not question others for their answers but find them on their own, a harder process than the easy cop out of adapting the latest rage in pop culture social thinking. These are but trends that always fail to accomplish their goals of erasing the history of mankind.

So we're all braiwashed by society? yeah, try harder next time

Ps: It would do you some good that you at least tried answering what you're being told.

 

[razoredge]

Yo, dont attack me, personal attacks are against any forum policy aside from a sign immaturity. I have no idea how you figure I found myself on any fucking fence. You are heading way off topic as well as way off the meaning of anything I have said. I said my piece, its very easy to understand. I dont need to answer anyones questions or "answer what I have been told", really where the fuck are you coming from? Any answers to those are right in my posts anyway. I simply said one only needs to observe things to figure them out.

Pedifilia is a natural occurance
Murder is a natural occurance
Stealing is a natural occurance
Fighting is a natural occurance
Beating woman and children is a natural occurance
Woman brow beating and bitch slapping men is a natural occurance
Nations trying to take over other nations is a natural occurance
Mental instability is a natural occurance
Horrific diseases are a natural occurance

SO ? No reason to be disgusted by any of this now is there...... perhaps we just need to come up with new terminology phobes to make everything A OK

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

Yo, dont attack me, personal attacks are against any forum policy aside from a sign immaturity.

What the fuck? when did I ever attack you?

You are heading way off topic as well as way off the meaning of anything I have said. I said my piece, its very easy to understand

Perhaps if you did answer instead of flipping out I would understand better what you are trying to say. The only thing I got clearly out of your post was that you believe homophobia does not exist, which I firmly believe is incorrect.

dont need to answer anyones questions or "answer what I have been told"

Last time I checked in order for an argument to reach closure and two people get some sort of understanding both have to debate, however, if you don't wish to comply I will kindly back off.

Carry on.

 

[BloodSword]

You're part of the problem by being a bigot and teaching your children how to be intolerant and hateful towards other people. Are you really so damn stupid that you don't understand Vossyrus' point about racism? Are you not able to see that by being intolerant towards gay people it is all the same as racism? (intolerance towards people of other colors).

To be honest I don't even know why you draw the children card to this discussion, that's just a scapegoat if anything. Explaining to children about why two men are kissing is just as difficult as talking to them about drug abuse, sex, rape, poverty and crime. Jesus christ, there's lots of unspeakable acts we humans do everyday and kids see them on every corner, but for some reason or another you seem to care more about how should you explain to them why are two guys holding hands. Why do you feel compelled to use kids as an excuse to shun people that have different viewpoints from yours?

Debating anything with young, presumptious people serves no purpose. You're too busy pointing fingers at others, and assuming your way is the only conclusion. Accusing me of playing the "children card" imparts to me, that you better get your head out of your ass. Implying I used this as a "scapegoat is an incredulous statement. Furthermore, to assume I "care more about two guys holding hands" than to explain of the daily horrors that are prevalent within our society is beyond pompous and arrogant, it's just flat-out unbelievable. You have not seen the atrocities that I have seen in this life. I;m betting your barely out of your 20's maybe younger. You HAVEN"T LIVED long enough to debate or convince me, quite frankly, of anything. I respect the younger generation. As an older person, I know that I can learn from them. But you, and Vossyrus have a long way to go. Lastly, your a complete twat for calling me a bigot, based on an internet post. When my kids have asked me about homosexuality, male and female, I reply that people that behave this way is because they are "born" this way.Inside they don't feel in unison with their born bodies. And how difficult that must be in dealing with those emotions. They understand. They have a "concrete" foundation to go forward. They also know they can talk to me about anything. With your post, you've insulted me as a parent and teacher to my children. Use the "children card" Fuck you. Look at the bigger picture,man and stop being a nuthugger.

 

[razoredge]

You are too intent at picking apart posts and concentrating on tiny areas too grasp any full meaning from what is presented. Not worth any further time than what I already presented. Either you get it or you dont and you didnt. What you did do was post three posts attacking myself and Bloodsword, out of the clear blue and wallowed helplessly in a quagmire of inability to comprehend or permit what was written. Everyone is entitled to their reasonable position and I saw nothing brought up that was without reason. People react as they do and have for reasons and that is the fact that homosex is not natural and in your face acts of such disgusts most people, the burdon is theirs to bare. They are a minority and they have to deal with what ever reaction is sent their way. All the name calling and tears in the world is not going to change it.

Perhaps some would do well to learn what goes wrong in the womb during development that causes genitals of one sex and mental stimulants of the opposite, before they attack those whose process went unhampered. Thus giving them the ability to court and mate naturally.