how can i make my guitars sound WIDE using amp sims
- Thread starter XxSicRokerxX
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ApeScaleConflict
Member
I don't really even want to put out effort to explain how retarded "playing slightly off on purpose" would be.
That's just like taking a shit on the dinner table at your grandmas place cuz it's neat.
However doing just two tracks and doing a certain grunge vibe off playing can sound sweet.
Oooor in cheesy rock with only two tracks of guitar. BUT doubling the frikkin gtrs should ALWAYS be as close as possible.
That's just like taking a shit on the dinner table at your grandmas place cuz it's neat.
However doing just two tracks and doing a certain grunge vibe off playing can sound sweet.
Oooor in cheesy rock with only two tracks of guitar. BUT doubling the frikkin gtrs should ALWAYS be as close as possible.
Virgil.
¯\(°_o)/¯
Also another important tip: If it's too hard recording the same riff (meaning you can't play it the same way twice), you should either record or play something easier, or practice it until you get it down perfect and completely in-time. This will make dual-tracking/quad-tracking a LOT easier. The tighter you play, the less muddy it sounds. There are no shortcuts.
P-E
Munchkin
.
Chris Lucas
I DON'T BELIEVE IN MAGIC
+1 to actually physically double tracking.
But in a pinch you can take the copied track and slide the waveform by a few ms. That will widen out the sound. It will completely collapse in mono, but it will make the sound wider and sort of fake the "double-tracked" sound. Also if you EQ the plugins a bit differently or use a different amp sim it will help. Or even detune it a bit.
I have done this to make rehearsal recordings (with only one guitarist) and such sound a little better. Or when mixing, and move a lead-ish rhythm part to the center and use the other rhythm guitar track on the other side. Or use a different repeat of the riff.
So you can fake it and make it fairly convincing. Doesn't sound nearly as good or as easy as double tracking.
Interestingly, the tighter you are, the better the sound, but no human can play it exactly the same way twice. Which just makes it that much more awesome!
But in a pinch you can take the copied track and slide the waveform by a few ms. That will widen out the sound. It will completely collapse in mono, but it will make the sound wider and sort of fake the "double-tracked" sound. Also if you EQ the plugins a bit differently or use a different amp sim it will help. Or even detune it a bit.
I have done this to make rehearsal recordings (with only one guitarist) and such sound a little better. Or when mixing, and move a lead-ish rhythm part to the center and use the other rhythm guitar track on the other side. Or use a different repeat of the riff.
So you can fake it and make it fairly convincing. Doesn't sound nearly as good or as easy as double tracking.
Interestingly, the tighter you are, the better the sound, but no human can play it exactly the same way twice. Which just makes it that much more awesome!
olif8
Minge
Virgil.
¯\(°_o)/¯
You're right to a degree about it widening the track, but it won't "make it fairly convincing". It will still sound like one track, dead center, but just spread wider. It won't sound double tracked and won't sit well in a mix at all if using this method on rhythm guitars. It sounds bad.
However, doing this for a single take guitar solo/lead that you want a bit wider does sound pretty good. And if you got $60, you can get Waves Doubler that works pretty well I've heard. (but it doesn't sound good for rhythm)
Remember, you have to make "room" for everything in a mix. If you have everything in the middle nothing is going to sit well in the mix and it's going to sound very muddy and jumbled.
There's no hard fast rule to it, but generally speaking:
- guitars are usually panned far L/R (I usually do 100/100 if dual tracking, and 100/100 & 80/80 if quad tracking)
- bass guitar is centered
- kick drum centered
- snare slightly R (maybe 10% R)
- rest of the drum kit panned as if you were looking at the kit (from an audience viewpoint) to get a natural feel
- leads usually centered or slightly panned if double tracked for a "wider" feel
- vocals centered or panned a bit for background vox/harmonies
Also adding a reverb buss for various tracks will give it a more live or 'wide' feel depending on how much you add.
stillwell schwa cmx does the doubler thing great, but again not good for rythmn... pretty pointless me chiming in really.......You're right to a degree about it widening the track, but it won't "make it fairly convincing". It will still sound like one track, dead center, but just spread wider. It won't sound double tracked and won't sit well in a mix at all.
However, doing this for a single take guitar solo/lead that you want a bit wider does sound pretty good. And if you got $60, you can get Waves Doubler that works pretty well I've heard. (but it doesn't sound good for rhythm)
Virgil.
¯\(°_o)/¯
Nah, not pointless.... at least the dude has some ideas on how to treat rhythms and leads and options for programs to help.
(Hey guys, new here!...).
So I know about recording two seperate travail (L,R), or two for each side...but what about center? On top of the L & R, or double L & R, no records double or even single rhythm tracks down the middle/center??
(I do realise if your doing 2 per track L, R, ad cent. That'd be 6, is that a little "uneccessary"?).
So I know about recording two seperate travail (L,R), or two for each side...but what about center? On top of the L & R, or double L & R, no records double or even single rhythm tracks down the middle/center??
(I do realise if your doing 2 per track L, R, ad cent. That'd be 6, is that a little "uneccessary"?).
Virgil.
¯\(°_o)/¯
Instead of continuing this debate, I say the new guys will just have to learn by trial and error. Go ahead, try and pan one rhythm track duplicated.... or try dual tracking and keeping them centered.... then try mixing it and just see how shitty and lifeless your mix sounds.
I still consider myself a complete n00b, and even I get this concept. I don't know why it's that hard to understand. Do test mixes, throw up clips in the "Rate my mix" section, and adjust based on feedback and what sounds good to you and your music. There's no exact formula for mixing... it's all about what sounds good in context of the music and everything else going on. Sure, centering a guitar track may sound good by itself, but it's going to sound lifeless in a mix if you add drums and bass underneath, and vox and leads on top.
I still consider myself a complete n00b, and even I get this concept. I don't know why it's that hard to understand. Do test mixes, throw up clips in the "Rate my mix" section, and adjust based on feedback and what sounds good to you and your music. There's no exact formula for mixing... it's all about what sounds good in context of the music and everything else going on. Sure, centering a guitar track may sound good by itself, but it's going to sound lifeless in a mix if you add drums and bass underneath, and vox and leads on top.
I didn't mean to "duplicate" anything.
I meant, to individually record the lefts, rights,and center(s).
With that being said, i know DUPLICATED centers are useless. But as seperately recordedtracks is having a center track(s) useless?
Because I get the whole thing about not duplicating tracks. As I've read the thread, but just just found it interesting that everyone is talking about left and right. But not mentioning much (or anything) about center (rhythm) tracks.
I meant, to individually record the lefts, rights,and center(s).
With that being said, i know DUPLICATED centers are useless. But as seperately recordedtracks is having a center track(s) useless?
Because I get the whole thing about not duplicating tracks. As I've read the thread, but just just found it interesting that everyone is talking about left and right. But not mentioning much (or anything) about center (rhythm) tracks.
Virgil.
¯\(°_o)/¯
Usually rhythm guitar tracks don't exist in the center. AGAIN, you have to have room for bass, drums, vox, and leads. The only case I've heard rhythm guitar tracks in the dead center is in a mono mix or like on classical guitar recordings where there's only one instrument and one take of everything. Even dual tracking (2 different takes, not duplicates) and keeping it centered won't sound good usually. But again, it all depends on what kind of music you're playing and how it fits. Experiment and use your ears as to what sounds good. It's not that hard, nor does it take more than 2 minutes, to record 2 takes, keep them centered and realize it sounds like crap in a mix. Widen them out until you're happy with the result.
But I honestly don't see WHY you would want to have 2 separate tracks sitting on top of each other. I think it would sound muddy and would squash everything else.
The bass guitar is the center rhythm track. lol
Say you have 2 takes panned 95 left/95 right, it has that 'wide' feel, but it also sounds very focused and centered in a way as it covers the whole spectrum, but at the same time it opens up the center for everything else.
But I honestly don't see WHY you would want to have 2 separate tracks sitting on top of each other. I think it would sound muddy and would squash everything else.
The bass guitar is the center rhythm track. lol
Say you have 2 takes panned 95 left/95 right, it has that 'wide' feel, but it also sounds very focused and centered in a way as it covers the whole spectrum, but at the same time it opens up the center for everything else.
Well, maybe not 2 lol. Just one. But anyways, I see your point. And yeah, it makes sense.
Record individual tracks (rhythms) on the left/right.
And leave the center for "the rest of the band" lol. Aka, drums, bass, and vocals.
Usually I do my recordings with either 1 left, 1 right, and 1center. Or, one center and two lefts /rights.
Record individual tracks (rhythms) on the left/right.
And leave the center for "the rest of the band" lol. Aka, drums, bass, and vocals.
Usually I do my recordings with either 1 left, 1 right, and 1center. Or, one center and two lefts /rights.
Trevoire520
Member
Virgil.
¯\(°_o)/¯
OneDaySky
Clint
crillemannen
Member
DanLights
Santa Hat Forever
Guitardrummer's (creative name there) question is perfectly valid IMO, and I'm sure more than one producer uses a third (or fifth) rhythm track low in volume up the centre. I've never done it personally though.
