How can I use vst's in DAW's like adobe audition without latency?

[<Arcane>]

Any help?

I want to use Revalver in adobe audition but when I use it as an effect while playing - to get an idea of what I play - I have latency in my tone. Or is there any other way to record just the dry signal with an effects processor like my Korg?

 

[Rune]

Better soundcard/drivers or like a good effects processor with onboard soundcard via USB would do the trick.

 

[<Arcane>]

Thx, but it has nothing to do with your soundcard as far as I know because the signal has to travel from the sound device, into Audition, get processed, out of Audition and back through the sound device. Even without an additional VST you get latency. So you need a really really fast computer.
And I don't know if it's possible to record the dry signal even with a onboard soundcard. How should that work?

Edit: Is it possible to record just the dry signal with a DI box?

Edit 2:

And how can I reduce thta annoying background noise while using a vst - without a noise gate?

 

[Froze]

I don't know about all the stuff you mentioned or why you need VSTs, but does anything that you use involve using ASIO? What I use to record and what I'd suggest to use with any DAW is ASIO4ALL driver which is available for free. As a recorder, I use Guitar Rig 4 with a sampling rate of 96khz, because I've noticed that increasing the sampling rate decreases latency (don't ask how, it just works). Later on I just import the track as 44khz wav to Cubase, which is the DAW that I use. I only use Guitar Rig to record and all the tones actually come from my amp.

My soundcard is Creative X-Fi, which most people probably consider crappy for any recording use, but it works for me. The reason I like it is that it came with a front panel which allows me to easily input my guitar amp to it with the basic 6,35mm guitar cable and it supports the 96khz sampling rate that I mentioned. I also got it cheap from my friend.

Anyway, this is the simple and cheap setup I've used for years to record numerous songs and never suffered from latency as far as I can remember. I'd be glad if I could be of some assistance, but you'd need to elaborate a bit more about what kind of stuff you're using atm and how.

 

[snowy]

Thx, but it has nothing to do with your soundcard as far as I know because the signal has to travel from the sound device, into Audition, get processed, out of Audition and back through the sound device. Even without an additional VST you get latency.

Doch. If the A/D D/A converters "suck" you get those latency problems.

So you need a really really fast computer.
And I don't know if it's possible to record the dry signal even with a onboard soundcard. How should that work?

Edit: Is it possible to record just the dry signal with a DI box?

Edit 2:

And how can I reduce thta annoying background noise while using a vst - without a noise gate?

Why would you want to use a DI box? What kind of background noise? Usually there shouldnt be any other noises than those that you hear if you're using your guitar with your "real" amp.

1.If you're having latency problems without using any vsts then I guess its due to your interface.
2.What about the buffer size in your DAW settings? Too high = latency




!
and that guy wasnt talking about your onboard soundcard, he was talking about some effect processor combined with a soundcard. Like audio interfaces and stuff like that.

 

[<Arcane>]

I don't know about all the stuff you mentioned or why you need VSTs, but does anything that you use involve using ASIO? What I use to record and what I'd suggest to use with any DAW is ASIO4ALL driver which is available for free. As a recorder, I use Guitar Rig 4 with a sampling rate of 96khz, because I've noticed that increasing the sampling rate decreases latency (don't ask how, it just works). Later on I just import the track as 44khz wav to Cubase, which is the DAW that I use. I only use Guitar Rig to record and all the tones actually come from my amp.

I wan't to use Revalver because you can get some really sick tones out of it. Audition works with ASIO. It's a good little helping tool but it isn't able to remove all of your latency. Even with a really small buffer size or sampling rate. I guess my Notebook is too slow for it.

Anyway, this is the simple and cheap setup I've used for years to record numerous songs and never suffered from latency as far as I can remember. I'd be glad if I could be of some assistance, but you'd need to elaborate a bit more about what kind of stuff you're using atm and how.

Normally I don't use VST's at all. At least not for live monitoring. The only thing I did in the past was alter effects afterwards but then it is mixed with my wet signal coming from my effects processor which I normally use for recrding.

Doch. If the A/D D/A converters "suck" you get those latency problems.

Sure, the sound device you use is also able to reduce latency but not the complete. That's not possible.

Why would you want to use a DI box? What kind of background noise? Usually there shouldnt be any other noises than those that you hear if you're using your guitar with your "real" amp.

It was an idea to use a DI box to record just the dry signal coming from my Korg. But I'm not sure if this is possible.
I mean that I get some really annyoing noise like... when you touch the plug from your guitar cable or when your plug is not completely in your guitar. But that only happens when I use any distorted effect. With clean effects I have no problems.

1.If you're having latency problems without using any vsts then I guess its due to your interface.
2.What about the buffer size in your DAW settings? Too high = latency

I don't have problems without vst's.
I reduced the buffer size to a minimum but still got some latency. It's barely noticable when you play without a backing track but you hear it when you play with one.

and that guy wasnt talking about your onboard soundcard, he was talking about some effect processor combined with a soundcard. Like audio interfaces and stuff like that.

I know.

 

[snowy]

well, if you dont have the problems while using vst the only thing I can imagine is a slow harddrive (you use a notebook right?) or old/bad cpu.

"Sure, the sound device you use is also able to reduce latency but not the complete. That's not possible."

I don't really get that. Complete? Of course there will be always be some latency, there s even latency when you just play guitar without any amp (guitar->ear)
And if your Korg has bad/slow converters you cant do anything about your problem without changing your interface.

That noises from your guitar cable - dunno, sounds like normal noises you get when you touch a cable which is plugged into some (distorted, overdriven) amp

The DI Box won't really help you. Tbh I really dont understand why you would need one for recording your dry signal.
You never record the dry signal and use your amp sim as a effect?

 

[charli]

get a good interface

 

[<Arcane>]

well, if you dont have the problems while using vst the only thing I can imagine is a slow harddrive (you use a notebook right?) or old/bad cpu.

"Sure, the sound device you use is also able to reduce latency but not the complete. That's not possible."

I don't really get that. Complete? Of course there will be always be some latency, there s even latency when you just play guitar without any amp (guitar->ear)
And if your Korg has bad/slow converters you cant do anything about your problem without changing your interface.

That noises from your guitar cable - dunno, sounds like normal noises you get when you touch a cable which is plugged into some (distorted, overdriven) amp

The DI Box won't really help you. Tbh I really dont understand why you would need one for recording your dry signal.
You never record the dry signal and use your amp sim as a effect?

I think you don't really understand my problem. I ONLY have problems while using vst's and NOT with my Korg. And I DON'T want to use my Korg for recording but ONLY vst's.
I ONLY want to use my Korg for recording if it is possible in any way to record just the dry signal while using it. This was one of my simple questions.
And as I said, I am not sure if I could record the dry signal with a DI because I all I know is that a DI box is for reducing noise, adjust impedance and balance signal.
And I mean that no sound device is able to set audible latency to 0.

 

[Froze]

The problem might be that your Notebook doesn't have a dedicated audio processor. Integrated sound devices are never a good idea for recording anything, on Notebook or otherwise. I suggest you get a proper external sound card.

 

[<Arcane>]

Why shouldn't integrated soundcards not good for recording?
I think I have to wait until I get myself a new computer or anybody can tell me how the record the dry signal from Korg.
Btw. when I use the stand-alone versions for Revalver or Guitar Rig, I don't have any problems with latnecy...

 

[Froze]

Why shouldn't integrated soundcards not good for recording?
I think I have to wait until I get myself a new computer or anybody can tell me how the record the dry signal from Korg.
Btw. when I use the stand-alone versions for Revalver or Guitar Rig, I don't have any problems with latnecy...

If you don't have an external audio processor, all audio signals will be processed by your CPU, which is already occupied by running your operating system and whatnot. That can create a lot of latency, especially if the integrated audio doesn't support ASIO or is otherwise badly optimized, because chipset manufacturers usually don't design their audio capabilities with high performance/quality recording in mind. They only care about the output signal. The audio signal has to be buffered into memory on the fly, which is a kind of balancing between low latency and less crackle. I'm not that familiar with all the newest integrated audio chips, because I don't use them, but at least a few years ago they were still pretty much a no go for anyone who wanted to record something with low latency.

 

[<Arcane>]

If you don't have an external audio processor, all audio signals will be processed by your CPU, which is already occupied by running your operating system and whatnot. That can create a lot of latency

And this is what I've said before, or am I wrong?

 

[Froze]

And this is what I've said before, or am I wrong?

I suppose so, but I don't know what to tell you really. You probably know your setup's capabilities better than anyone else and if there's latency no matter what your settings are, then you probably need to change your setup. If you intend on using VSTs as effects processors, then there's always going to be latency, because they're software running over an operating system which creates that latency. You'd have to consult the developer of that particular VST instrument as to why it is and is there anything that can be done.

If you really want to minimize latency, then you need to minimize the software and stick with hardware. I suggest you get an amp or some other external effects processor where you can create the tones and then hook it into a sound card with ASIO4ALL driver. That's what I would do.

 

[<Arcane>]

I suggest you get an amp or some other external effects processor where you can create the tones and then hook it into a sound card with ASIO4ALL driver. That's what I would do.

And this is what I want to do and what I'm asking for the whole time!!!
So again, if there's no really chance to reduce latency to 0, then I would like to record JUST the dry signal from my effects processor, because when I mix the wet signal from my Korg with any vst, it doesn't sound good at all. But I don't know if this is possible. That's my problem. And I don't want to spent any money into new recording stuff because I'm just a bedroom guitarist. I own real amps and stuff which can create some awesome tone but to record the tone from it, I need a good mic, some more cables and a mixer.
And the tone I can get out from Revalver vst is propably better than the tone from my Marshall JCM 2000 + different effect pedals

 

[Froze]

And this is what I want to do and what I'm asking for the whole time!!!
So again, if there's no really chance to reduce latency to 0, then I would like to record JUST the dry signal from my effects processor, because when I mix the wet signal from my Korg with any vst, it doesn't sound good at all. But I don't know if this is possible. That's my problem. And I don't want to spent any money into new recording stuff because I'm just a bedroom guitarist. I own real amps and stuff which can create some awesome tone but to record the tone from it, I need a good mic, some more cables and a mixer.
And the tone I can get out from Revalver vst is propably better than the tone from my Marshall JCM 2000 + different effect pedals

I'm not sure what you mean by dry and wet signals. Do you mean the clean channel by dry signal or what is it in this case? What about the "mixing" of the wet signal with VST then? And what is the Korg you're talking about? Some effects processor/distortion box?

 

[<Arcane>]

The dry signal is the clean signal (which you here when you just plug your guitar in your soundcard without any vst/effects processor), the wet signal the signal with all effects (distortion, delay, chorus,...). And it doesn't sound good when I mix the wet signal - the already distorted signal - with another distortion or sth. else coming from the vst. Korg (Korg PX4D) is an effects processor like Line6 Toneport.

 

[snowy]

Dude I dont wanna sound like a dick but I would save some money and spend it on a good interface (and "record like everybody else does") if your notebook can cope with all that stuff.

I didnt really understand your problem but now I saw a picture of your Korg and now I just realised that this thing is just some effect processor without any USB connection/interface. You plug your guitar into that korg and then you connect the korg to your internal soundcard's line input(?). No offence but that's not really a good way to record your stuff (especially regarding those problems you're experiencing), even if you're "just" a bedroom guitarist.
Anyway, the toneport is not an effect processor like your Korg, it's some usb audio interface and a big dongle for gearbox. Two different types of devices and your were better off with the toneport. I know you probably dont want to hear these "advices" but I still think you should spend some money on a "decent" interface (before checking if your notebook is suitable).

 

[<Arcane>]

" You plug your guitar into that korg and then you connect the korg to your internal soundcard's line input(?). "
Yes, theres no other way to connect it. But my Korg or any other interface has nothing to do with my latency problem because my aim is to NOT use any interface.

But maybe I should save some money for a new interface BUT: the tone I can get out off Revalver beats the shit out of every interface I've ever heard. So when I buy something new would mean I would buy something worse.

 

[snowy]

well, yes the Korg has nothing to do with your latency in any case (man that would be a shitty device if it would cause hearable latency ) but if you really dont want to get an interface I guess I should shut up now.

BUT, dude, the interface wont change your sound. If you just plug your guitar into the line inputs of your interface (toneport for example) you can record your dry guitar signal in your DAW while using revalver as an insert/effect plugin. I dont see how this would change your sound.