How many of you don't tell your client that you re-amped their guitars?

[ElektricEyez]

See-ing as some guitarists are really anal about using their gear (cuz they bought it and insist that it's their personal tone), do some of you actually let them record what they 'think' sounds good using their gear, then re-amp later and keep hush hush about it, or do you tell them that you re-amped it using a different amp to get a better tone?

Just curious

 

[Lasse Lammert]

I'm usually trying to find some common ground during recording...
means I'm doing tons of blind tests with the client and then the client and me will pick whatever sounds best.
if someone is so convinced that his gear sounds awesome he'll be fine with a blind test...I'll have him set up his sound and I'll set my amps to how I think it'd souns best for the music...
so far in 100% of the cases the client has decided to go with what I recommended in the first place and also admitted that I probably know best...
blindtests is where it's at!
that way we've found out what amp/box combination to use, I'll then more often than not reamp again through that gear before mixing just to do the fine tuning (mic positioning etc), but I'll use the sound we agreed on as the basic sound to go from...just refining it a bit.

The above method only applies in those "knowitall-with-powerball" cases though...most of the time my clients have confidence in me and know that I know best, so they just let me do my job. (I have to admit though, that I'm sometimes turning down clients when I sense problems coming up...sometimes when they're asking for a quote I know already that they'll be a PITA (usually bands with NO experience but a real big ego)..in that case I won't even take the job....it's my name on the CD in the end, and I don't let anyone fuck with my name

 

[slashvanyoung]

Yeah, people who insist on using their own gear will usually get you in trouble all the way along the way, not only when it comes to this.

If somebody insists on using his own amp just for the sake of it, chances are he won't be able to play to a click, won't know his parts and he won't be able to play tight enough for doubling... But yeah he WILL expect you to fix all of this and be the loudest in the mix ofc.

There MUST be a stochastic correlation!

 

[Forceps]

The band I'm recording now said to me: "we like our own gear and sound, but you're stuff will probably sound much better, so if you're all right with it, we use your amps 'n stuff."
I was completely suprised by that, didn't even bring up the subject of which gear to use at all, and the band only heard a few demo samples of my own guitar playing. I don't have to do anything behind their back, because they told me: do what's best for the end result. If you have to add samples to the drums: do it! If you wanna reamp the guitar: do it!
So that makes things a lot easier for me

 

[paladin shredder]

I usually tell them what reamping is, and I show them how it works. Afterward, they usually say something like,"omg, thats crazy! how'd you learn this stuff?"

During tracking, I usually try out their gear first. If I hear a problem or we can't get a usable tone, then I make a suggestion of what to change. As long as you can explain what you want to change to make it sound better and be honest with them, they will appreciate it.

 

[006]

It really goes in 2 or 3 different directions depending entirely on the attitude of the client. I've had clients that didn't care, they just wanted me to do my thing. I've had clients where I've had to blind test them but they are cool about it and every time they picked the sound I got and wanted to use. I've also had clients where I have had to either lie or just plain not say anything about it at all to avoid his feelings being hurt. With this, though, comes the person humiliating themselves without knowing it. Such as saying how much his amp sounds way better than anything I showed him of mine, the guitar tone slays, etc. If he only knew... haha. That has happened a few times in the past, and only one of those times did I get so tired of hearing this dude talk so much smack that I finally told him on the last day of mixing. The rest of the band laughed at him, he was very humbled. It didn't get ugly though he took it well and even laughed about himself talking shit for the past 3 sessions.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

If the subject comes up, I'll set up a reamp & walk them out into the room with the amp blasting away. Once they can hear themselves playing through the amp, sounding like they're still hooked into the amp I don't get any grief.

Usually, the eyes will light up & I'll get something like, "wow, that's fucking cool."

Now, I did do a record once where the guitar player re-tracked all the bass lines & we never bothered to tell the bassist.

 

[ElektricEyez]

Usually I have no problem getting a client to let me do the choosing, turning the EQ knobs on the amp, and even sometimes making them play through an entirely different guitar. Even the most stubborn clients I have been able to work with and spend the time it takes to dial in a tone change amps and guitar cabinets etc. The biggest obstacle I run into is ALWAYS I make them turn the gain down, I'm VERY stingy with the gain in their eyes, but I can usually get around convincing them to go with my

I guess the reason I asked was because I was wondering if anyone out there sets up the dry track and just mic's up an amp real quick, and let the stubborn guitarists (hey I'm one of those stubborn guitarists) choose as much gain as they want instead of going through the whole dance of blind tests, and talking them into turning down the gain, and how this is recording vs live sound and how a cabinet of 4 12's sounds much different than a car stereo with 6 1/2inch speakers, and then once the session is over, just turn around get the tone your after by re-amping and not really say much about it.

But I guess there really is no easy way around it and part of the job is to be diplomatic and deal with the ego's of people. Usually it's just the guitarists though, and usually it's just one stubborn guitarists HAHHAHA. Not that I ever to impart my tone on their CD, I try to get their sound as much as possible but you know as engineers what you need and what is going to work and what isn't going to work and most of the time the client doesn't understand that the first time they step into a studio with an engineer who knows what he's after.

 

[Chryst Krispies]

In the past, I would "test" engineers by saying I wanted to use a crate halfstack for rhythm tones, and then I'd analyze their response. If they were into it, I'd peace out and go find another engineer. The guys that call bullshit right away and pointed to a real amp are the ones I'd go with. If the band your working with has confidence in your abilities but wants to use their own shit gear...I don't know what to tell you, be more selective with clients and get another job on the side to make up for lost revenue. Don't put your name on stuff that sounds like Tad produced it.

If you reamp just come out with it. If it sounds better and they still want to use the shit sounding one, just take their cash and keep your name away from anything associated.

 

[Line666]

In the past, I would "test" engineers by saying I wanted to use a crate halfstack for rhythm tones, and then I'd analyze their response. If they were into it, I'd peace out and go find another engineer. The guys that call bullshit right away and pointed to a real amp are the ones I'd go with. If the band your working with has confidence in your abilities but wants to use their own shit gear...I don't know what to tell you, be more selective with clients and get another job on the side to make up for lost revenue. Don't put your name on stuff that sounds like Tad produced it.

If you reamp just come out with it. If it sounds better and they still want to use the shit sounding one, just take their cash and keep your name away from anything associated.

Nice test, I had the honor of playing on a Crate halfstack for a brief period the other day and I must say I think it was undoubtedly the shittest tone I have ever heard, I could not dial in anything that did not sound like wet dog farts.

 

[greyskull]

Yeah, people who insist on using their own gear will usually get you in trouble all the way along the way, not only when it comes to this.

If somebody insists on using his own amp just for the sake of it, chances are he won't be able to play to a click, won't know his parts and he won't be able to play tight enough for doubling... But yeah he WILL expect you to fix all of this and be the loudest in the mix ofc.

There MUST be a stochastic correlation!

this is SO true.
I always tell clients.
But I have replayed parts without telling people before.

 

[SoClose]

In the past, I would "test" engineers by saying I wanted to use a crate halfstack for rhythm tones, and then I'd analyze their response. If they were into it, I'd peace out and go find another engineer. The guys that call bullshit right away and pointed to a real amp are the ones I'd go with. If the band your working with has confidence in your abilities but wants to use their own shit gear...I don't know what to tell you, be more selective with clients and get another job on the side to make up for lost revenue. Don't put your name on stuff that sounds like Tad produced it.

If you reamp just come out with it. If it sounds better and they still want to use the shit sounding one, just take their cash and keep your name away from anything associated.

must not have been talking about a blue voodoo then :Smokin:

 

[lolzgreg]

I don't let bands use their own amps. Mine are better, always. Most people who record with me know me; they're aware I know what the fuck is going on. If the band doesn't trust me, I don't think I can work with them. I've never had an issue.

 

[Ermz]

Lots of ego flying around in here. No wonder there's such a disparity between musicians and engineers.

 

[lolzgreg]

Lots of ego flying around in here. No wonder there's such a disparity between musicians and engineers.

I'm a musician AND an engineer. I was a musician 5 years before I was an engineer, and my constant research has led me to where I am today.

I can see that comment pointing at me, in a very nonchalant manner. Regardless if it is or not, the last four amps I've seen in my studio are:

a. Marshall DSL 50- My Windsor beat it out
b. Mesa Single Recto- My Dual beat it out
c. Engl Powerball- Great amp for live, not in front of the microphone, 5150 got the spot
d. Fender Hot Rod Deluxe- The band loved it, but they ended up loving my Peavey Penta's clean even better.

My point is this, IF YOU MAKE A POINT TO show that you are a connoisseur of guitar amplification, you're going to have an arsenal at your fingertips.

When is the last time you had someone come into your studio with a great sounding amp that had new tubes, wasn't falling apart and was optimized to perform at its fullest potential? For me, never. I see that it could happen one day, from a seasoned fellow with a lot of loot.

If I can't trust myself to be able to provide superior guitar amplification to my customers (who don't spend 2 hours a day researching new products and ways to make their amplifiers sound insane under a microphone), why should they trust me to record them? There has to be some reason to justify recording with me over another fellow or pro studio...

When is the last time you saw an amplifier manufacturer's website (OTHER THAN KRANK) that had legitimately awesome clips of their gear that really represented what it sounds like? But I digress...

As an engineer, you need to be confident, and even a bit cocky. If you don't seem sure of yourself, you're never going to win over the hearts of your customers:

"Dude, do you think you can reamp some beastly guitars for our album?"

"I guess, my tones are alright..."

"You guess?"

Okay let's try that again:

"Dude, do you think you can muster up some rippin' guitar tones for our full length?"

"Guaranteed to br00tally rape your current and two ex-girlfriends, or your money back."

EDIT: Also, no band has ever argued with me when I said, "Let's use my amps for recording, I really spend a lot of time refining them to be the best they can be and I know them well." When I say, "trust me," I never get an argument. Is there a reason why? I don't know, ask my customers. All of them have chosen to do repeat business with me and all of them couldn't be happier with their recordings.

If Derek Jeter hits all of his home-runs with a maple bat, why would you force him to use an oak one?

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

must not have been talking about a blue voodoo then :Smokin:

Not to go to off topic, but the BV sucks.

 

[chewyfhtts]

i always tell my clients that i'm re-amping. if i need to of course. although ive never really worked with musicians that think they know everything when it comes to tone. maybe ive been lucky, or maybe i just work with people who understand that re-amping is a good thing

 

[lolzgreg]

Not to go to off topic, but the BV sucks.

I wouldn't say that it sucks. It's just not "great."

 

[drew_drummer]

I can see that comment pointing at me, in a very nonchalant manner.

Actually, I'd already thought the same thing that Ermz said, a bunch of posts before I even got to yours and even Ermz!!

It certainly says something though, that you'd feel it was aimed at you.

FWIW; I think if you can't get a decent sound out of a bands equipment and have to resort to forcing your idea of what a good amp/tone is on to them, then you're probably just a typical metal engineer, with no fucking talent.

Engineering and recording is about finding a good sound within a set of parameters NOT set by you. If you have to contrive the situation so that you can do your job, then I say you fucking suck.

/flamesuit on

 

[John_C]

Actually, I'd already thought the same thing that Ermz said, a bunch of posts before I even got to yours and even Ermz!!

It certainly says something though, that you'd feel it was aimed at you.

FWIW; I think if you can't get a decent sound out of a bands equipment and have to resort to forcing your idea of what a good amp/tone is on to them, then you're probably just a typical metal engineer, with no fucking talent.

Engineering and recording is about finding a good sound within a set of parameters NOT set by you. If you have to contrive the situation so that you can do your job, then I say you fucking suck.

/flamesuit on

Andy must suck, all that using his own amps loads of the time

acoustic treatment also seems like a pretty contrived situation, along with insisting drummers tune their drums or even more contrived tuning them yourself. What if the singer says that "his sound" requires him to sing into a $40 sm58 copy, but he wants it to sound kinda like devin townsend in the mix. Would it be contriving the situation to persuade the guy to try out the LDC or sm7?

edit: i just don't have the internet balls for proper flaming do i