How many of you don't tell your client that you re-amped their guitars?

[Ermz]

Whilst my views aren't quite as extreme as drew's, I do believe in a happy middle ground.

I don't hold the all answers, and to believe so when entering every session would be preposterously egomaniacal (Firefox says that's not a word?).

I'm always open to the idea that a band member could bring in an amp I've never heard or tested and have it totally blow my mind, or completely lend itself to the band's sound. You don't grow unless you experiment, change, adapt. The impulsive 'I know best' behavior is probably a big contributor towards why most modern metal sounds so stagnant and sterile.

Contrary to what you might read on here, I'm not a gear nut. I don't jerk it to the sounds of an LA-2A flat-lining its needle on a lead vocal track. It's all just a means to an end. If a band come in with exceptionally poor equipment, of course the sensible thing to do is suggest alternatives. If they come in with equipment that is perfectly fine, or capable in some way, then there is no harm in trying it.

 

[John_C]

egomaniacal (Firefox says that's not a word?).

well i say it's a pretty awesome word, who cares what firefox says! I guess egotistical would be the standard word

 

[drew_drummer]

Not my real views; just being a cock.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

I just wish clients would bring in decent amps. When the band brings in a JSX, I've got no problem working with it. It's when they insist on a line 6 Spider when I've got numerous tube heads lying around that things get stupid.

What's cool though is, bands rarely insist on using their cabinets. In fact, I can't think of one example in 11 years. Guitar players are generally a lazy bunch & usually go with the "path of least resistance" when it comes to moving gear into the studio. That's my observation, anyway. YMMV.

Where this becomes advantageous is not having to convince the guitar player to use V30's or another suitable speaker..... and the speaker does indeed make a huge difference.

-0z-

 

[ElektricEyez]

Most engineers who are passionate about what they do (I would say 99% of everyone here) get an opportunity to work with many different amps, cabinets and speakers. After awhile you start seeing different amps, and drumsets, bass guitars, and you start to learn what to expect from the equipment and you start to get an idea of what you will be fighting in the mix vs what compliments the mix. I have bills, they are paying me to do them a service, therefore I don't force my opinion down anyone's throat. Instead I simply point out my point of view using what I have learned from experience. You also begin to develop an ear that most people don't have. Sure the line6 has a beefy low end, but at what sacrifice? Where's the mids? How about them nasty brittle highs that they simply don't hear? You mic up a line 6 and everyone in the room gets excited because of the beefy low end. What they don't know at that point is that once the bass comes in, you've gotta tame that woofyness that the love so much which is going to dissapear. What's left? Scooped mids, and brittle highs, and your last resort EQ and multiband compression madness, to try to sculpt a decent out of the mix?

Sure you can act cocky, most bands pick up on that, and will tell their next engineer how he was cocky and hard to work with. My perspective is to show them what they aren't quite hearing and let them decide, albiet with my biased opinion. MOST band members really don't mind and just let me do my thang, but there is always a pickle in the bunch, somewhere down the line, you WILL deal with someone who is stubborn about their point of view. Not knowing your professional experience has taught you that down the you will be struggling to get a decent tone out of the mix, whether its drums guitars or bass or whatever. Think about it, your squeezing 2 half-stacks, and a bass stack, a 1000 watt PA, and a drumset all into 2 speakers 6 1/2 inches tall, You've GOT to have vision for this and know what works and what doesn't. Sometimes your forced to work with what you've got, but Re-amping allows for us to change things later when something doesn't work. Drum sampling allows for us to get a better sound for the mix.

People skills play into this just as much as technical skills. Either you love it or hate it, or make them love you or hate you! How you go about it is up to you. But I agree with Glenn, most of the time they come in with crappy gear because this industry is so danm expensive they can't afford the good stuff, which is why studios have stacks of amps, and nice drumsets, and mics etc. I always use the term studio sound and live sound are 2 different animals. That way they don't take it as you telling them that their gear sucks. It's just not the right tool for the job that's all.

 

[lolzgreg]

I've never told a band their gear sucks. Generally what happens is that they see a wall of amps and just realize that I've got the amplification section covered. I guess my view on this is so solid because I've never had a band argue. They say, "I want this tone." I say, plug into this and play. Then they drool on the floor and I have to mop it up.

 

[greyskull]

dont get me wrong, i will always try out whatever the guitarist has, but if it sucks; and no ammount of tweaking will get it sounding cool; we're using my shit.
Got a dual rec, a 5150, a jcm800, a fender bandmaster and an ac30 here. pretty much all ya need

 

[El_Gato]

dont get me wrong, i will always try out whatever the guitarist has, but if it sucks; and no ammount of tweaking will get it sounding cool; we're using my shit.
Got a dual rec, a 5150, a jcm800, a fender bandmaster and an ac30 here. pretty much all ya need

yes, if the gear is good enough as it keeps the global character/sound of the band. Happens the same with drums (mainly snare) as guitar, drums and vocals are giving most of the tone of a recording.

It's rare to find a band like this here so I'd be using my gear most of the time :Smug:

The blind test Lasse does is a great idea for those guitar players that are not trusting you! thanks

If they still keep on recording their shit, then let them dial the tone for tracking, I'd reamp later without telling them (DI. one to amp, one direct).

They STILL recognize thats not their overgained, overmiddy, oversaturated fizzy sound? here comes the discussion about my job and experience and the state of trust when they record with me.

They STILL!!!! want their shit? didn't happend to me yet but I'd post the mixes here and cross my fingers for them to trust you all at least.

I'd rather not tell them I'd reamping in any case if possible.

 

[chewyfhtts]

depends on the circumstances too. if you've got the time to fuck around with sounds then go for it. tell the band you're re-amping in search of a better tone, if u don't get it, then you can always revert back to what you know is right. if you've got deadlines, then screw that shit. tell the band that unless they wanna pay for more studio time, they'll be getting a tone the way you know works.

 

[::XeS::]

If some band member is earless say him "yes I've used your awesome amp" also if it's not real. It's an extreme case but it works.

 

[kaomao]

over here it's the opposite, people ask me to reamp because they want the best possible sound out of me!
I'm lucky about this, I know many musicians want the same shitty sound they use when they rehearse or play live.
Recording is a different story, you need a balanced tone with mids, not the typical engl "mudball" sound.

 

[Jordon]

Kinda surprises me that engineers and producers on this board think so badly of the bands they record...you know, the bands that ultimately give them a job.

I felt somewhat insulted at first, being a musician before an engineer, but then I realized everyone in my band knows what they're doing, takes care of their gear, knows what a good tone is, and has top-of-the-line equipment to boot. Around Chicago, I've come across more engineers that don't know what they hell they're doing when micing up guitar cabs and drumkits than the alternative. They end up asking me "how do you usually do it?"
'

 

[El_Gato]

Kinda surprises me that engineers and producers on this board think so badly of the bands they record...you know, the bands that ultimately give them a job.

I felt somewhat insulted at first, being a musician before an engineer, but then I realized everyone in my band knows what they're doing, takes care of their gear, knows what a good tone is, and has top-of-the-line equipment to boot. Around Chicago, I've come across more engineers that don't know what they hell they're doing when micing up guitar cabs and drumkits than the alternative. They end up asking me "how do you usually do it?"
'

˙uʍop ǝpısdn pǝuɹnʇ plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ


just kidding, lucky you

 

[Jordon]

˙uʍop ǝpısdn pǝuɹnʇ plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ


just kidding, lucky you

Well, we all believe that if we really want to play music for a living, we sure as hell better at least know how to use our own equipment.

 

[::XeS::]

We don't think bad of all the bands of course. But if you are a good engineer/producer you have to use the best thing for the sound. If a guitarist comes into the studio and he pretends to use a metalzone pedal...what do you have to do?
If the band want to play through a shitty amp and when you mix the song, the guitars have a shitty sound...what do you have to do?
2 weeks ago a guitarist said me that my schecter's action was too high and he can't play with it. He has a Dean with the action so low that if you play a string at 15 fret it doesn't vibrate....so, who is the stupid? And I hate when some 17 years old guys wanna teach you about your job, like they have years of experience........and they know nothing.

 

[GarethSE]

Well, we all believe that if we really want to play music for a living, we sure as hell better at least know how to use our own equipment.

Well then your band is the fucking exception to the rule.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Generally what happens is that they see a wall of amps and just realize that I've got the amplification section covered. I guess my view on this is so solid because I've never had a band argue

This is more the case as of late. I really haven't had to argue with anyone in the last five or six years..... Mostly because my amp collection got better!

 

[KidMoe]

Far be it from me to say, since I only fool around with this on my own, but it seems that quite a few people here have the wrong idea of what it means to be a professional. If you aim to be a professional in any area of business, lying to your clients is not an option. Anyone who goes behind their client's back to re-amp guitars without telling them should be ashamed of themselves. Suggesting it is one thing, and it's perfectly acceptable, but to actually do it against the wishes of the person paying for the service is beyond the limits of acceptability.

I doubt that anyone here would take kindly to it if the bagger at the grocery store replaced everything you bought with granola bars and Metamucil because he thought it would be better for you than what you picked out for yourself, but that's the same arrogant attitude being represented.

If you don't like what's being asked of you, by all means refuse to do it, but don't think that you have license to do whatever the hell you want because you are a mystical sound guru. It's the kind of activity that, if a client wanted to get back at you, they could spread around and kill business. You don't want to be known as the producer who tells their clients to fuck off because their opinions don't matter.

 

[greyskull]

i understand your point of view; and i have yet to have to re-amp behind peoples back; because generally theres no need.

Like i say i will always try out whatever the client brings in (within reason - if its a line6 combo or a valvestate.... i might pass)
Heres my take on it; if that cd or those tracks are going out with my name on it; its going to sound good. I will do anything to make sure that they leave the studio sounding good.

 

[Erik Monsonis]

My opinion:

You don't negotiate with your doctor when he prescribes you meds, right?

The AE is like being a band-doctor, and what you prescribe them is what they need. If they don't want the treatment, they'll suffer from the consequences, and then will blame the doctor because the pain is still there.

So I tell them in the first place I am actually going to reamp their guitars to a good sound. If they don't agree, they can look for another mix engineer, because I'm not willing to compromise my product.