How Much Do You Use Music Theory?

[[UEAK]Clowd]

I don't know guys, I think Habsburgs is on to something...

I know one too many guys who will be jamming on a solo or something and even when they come upon something that sounds AWESOME, they will go "nonono, this doesn't adhere to music theory rule #4439955844, so I'm not doing it."

however, that's not to say it's useless... it can be great as long as you don't let it constrain you.

 

[GarethSE]

I don't know guys, I think Habsburgs is on to something...

I know one too many guys who will be jamming on a solo or something and even when they come upon something that sounds AWESOME, they will go "nonono, this doesn't adhere to music theory rule #4439955844, so I'm not doing it."

however, that's not to say it's useless... it can be great as long as you don't let it constrain you.

FUCKING THIS.
Seriously, I have honestly met far too many talented individuals who have had their potential for exploring unique and wonderful musical places ruined by theory.

I shall leave thee with a quote from my old bassist. "Yeah, I think I finally cracked it! This jam I used theory to play the wrong notes to throw people off, rather than using the right ones!"
Way to miss the fucking point?

But still, I guess there's always gonna be dicks that miss the point, it's not necessarily something that's wrong with the music theory's existence per say

 

[coreysMonster]

The thing about theory is that it's a tool.
And just like any other tool, you can use too much of it, of course, but knowing how to use it won't take away from your playing.
Knowing your theory DOES NOT MEAN you will play like a robot.
Knowing your theory DOES NOT MEAN you can't be creative.

Saying learning your theory is a bad thing is like saying practicing too much is bad, because if you get to good you sound like a robot, which I've also heard tons of people say.


EDIT: an example, I wrote this riff yesterday that went

A-2-2-5-4-2-2-5-4-
E-0-0-3-2-0-0-2-1-

as the rythym part of a solo. Then I realised, I had no idea how to solo over this part, didn't know what scales or notes to use, and had to do it all by ear, almost note-by-note.

Were my knowledge of theory better, it'd gone alot more faster and fluently.

 

[Jind]

Whats that saying about music theory?

Learn all you can about music theory, memorize as many scales and chords as you can, tackle as many techniques as you can think of - and then forget all of it. While it's a wonderful thing to have at a bare minimum a working knowledge of music theory, and extremely helpful to have more than a basic knowledge of music theory, lacking it will not hold you back, it may slow you down, but your artistic nature will find it's own way to express itself.

Music theory certainly does speed things up - instead of hunting around for what sounds right, you know immediately what will work. Instead of chugging away on a chord progression always thinking that that chord you are using just does not work with the sound you are hearing in your head, some music knowledge would speed the process up. Music theory helps immensely the process of putting the sounds you hear in your head, the tunes you whistle while doing the dishes, the melodies you sing in the shower - down in solid form.

It's a tool just like any other piece of musical knowledge or gear - it will help you in your task, but it will not solve all of your creative problems as even the most knowledgeable person is not the most artistic - it takes passion more than knowledge to create music.

That's just my 2 cents.

 

[professorlamp]

EDIT: an example, I wrote this riff yesterday that went

A-2-2-5-4-2-2-5-4-
E-0-0-3-2-0-0-2-1-

as the rythym part of a solo. Then I realised, I had no idea how to solo over this part, didn't know what scales or notes to use, and had to do it all by ear, almost note-by-note.

Were my knowledge of theory better, it'd gone alot more faster and fluently.

thats just an e minor scale with a b9(b2) aswell, try and land on the b9 (F) when the rhythm section hits it, you'll sound convincing

 

[The Unavoidable]

One of the absolute worst posts I have ever seen on this forum...

+1, I almost had a shit-fit when I read that.

 

[coreysMonster]

thats just an e minor scale with a b9(b2) aswell, try and land on the b9 (F) when the rhythm section hits it, you'll sound convincing

See, theory works.

(also, thanks)

 

[Vandyn]

Truth about Music theory

1. Music theory is only about memorizing and learning notes, key signatures, chords, etc.

2. You don't need music theory, because if you learn too much, you won't be able to express yourself freely with music.

3. Theory is too much over analyzing, which isn't to make great music. Just sit down and write how you feel.

4. Music theory is too hard. In order to understand it, you need to be incredibly intelligent, attend a university, etc....

5. Learning theory will take away from your playing time, and overall experience as a musician.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

so i'm wasting my life on my music graduation.

 

[vikk]

i never bother learning theory, but wen i started writing seriously i regretted, it sucks wen you're stuck in a chord and you can't find for hell what's the next chord that would sound good

 

[RemoWilliams]

Actually, putting this in the "Production Tips" thread is a good idea. A producer having any varying knowledge of music theory can help a band he's producing in the studio when they get stuck in a rut writing wise or what not. I remember an interview from herehttp://www.metalchaos.co.uk/SABBAT%20INTERVIEW.htmwhere Andy Sneap was reflecting on older Sabbat songs and after learning a bit of music theory was wonder, "What the hell he was doing."
For me, I really get into it and see it as a puzzle of sorts, which is fun. I remember when I was going for a Music Performance degree, I would hear the guys at the local guitars stores say the things that were listed in Habsburgs post. But actually, hearing that early on probably help with my approach with it. I'm sure some can get stuck in totally using it for every single micro step. But I guess my approach to it is wide spread. I still jam on the guitar without any direction of what I'm doing. But, one of the best rewards is just jamming freely for a few minutes and then going back and seeing what you were doing. And then knowing the "possibilities" if you so choose to use them. Its can help in creating your own scale runs or combination or creating your own lead patterns or sweeps (or what ever your poison is). That way, your not stuck using the scale/sweep pattern your used too. You can construct your own flare instead of the same ol' Major7 shape you learned in the latest guitar mag. Also, it helps a ton with seeing how the bass can affect a chord progression, harmony, etc. instead of the bass just following the guitar to the "T".
Remember, its called Music Theory, not Music Law.

 

[Chris_P_Critter]

I've been playing for about 20 years, and I know nothing about music theory. I can't read musical notation...fuck - I have a hard enough time reading guitar tabs lol.

I don't think it's an absolute necessity to write good music, but it could never hurt.

 

[ze kink]

All the time basically. I'd like to know more too, so I'm learning it at school. Makes me spend so much less time wondering about why something sounds like it does, and how can I make it sound less shit.

Personally I've never ever met a person who'd be like "I can't play this thing, can't you see that it has a parallel fifth in there?". Also, isn't it true that it's much easier to break the rules if you actually know what the rules are? Though I have to say that calling music theory rules isn't something I consider accurate at all.

 

[Zack Uidl]

I don't think it's an absolute necessity to write good music, but it could never hurt.

Exactly. See, music theory is just a tool in which you can use to write music. I do not think about theory concepts all the time, however, it is a massive tool that can improve the effectiveness of your song-writing.

For example, if you have a chord progression that you like overall but are looking for a different chord. You can use theory to know exactly what chord you are hearing in your head and what you want to portray the specific sound you are looking for. Otherwise, you have to "guess and check."

You do not want to use music theory as your main source for compositional ideas, you want to use it as a tool that will allow you to be more effective and efficient with your writing.

 

[ze kink]

thats just an e minor scale with a b9(b2) aswell, try and land on the b9 (F) when the rhythm section hits it, you'll sound convincing

Why'd you call it a b9 though? Or e-minor with a b2 instead of the phrygian mode? Though yeah, there's the normal 2 in there as well.

 

[professorlamp]

honestly I dont know why its called a b9 , i just know its a b2, like a b13 is actually a b6th. You can call it a b2 if you want, (unless someone wiser wants to chime in and correct me). It's not really the phrygian, the phrygian is 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 and the minor is 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 , but what you have here, if you want to use the minor with the addb9 is 1 b2 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7. but personally I'd just play e minor or something along those lines and aim for the b9 whenever it occurs, or you could switch to F minor for that tiny bit of a bar, do what you wan't you dont have to abide

edit: the main reason I say b9 is because its been drilled in to me from jazz real books, I highly suggest picking one up if you want to get upto scratch with your chords/voicings/soloing

 

[Zack Uidl]

To clarify why something would be considered a 2 instead of a 9 (or the other way around)

When a chord is labeled as having a 2 in it, it does NOT have a 3rd.

When a chord is labeled as having a 9 in it, it DOES have a 3rd

For example:

D2 = 1-2-5 (D E A)
Dadd9 = 1-3-5-9 (D F# A E)

It is a way of making things more simple to understand

 

[professorlamp]

ahh ok, thought i had something wrong , that would explain why its a sus2 not a sus9 . thanks

 

[Zack Uidl]

no problem

 

[Paulie!]

Truth about Music theory

1. Music theory is only about memorizing and learning notes, key signatures, chords, etc.

2. You don't need music theory, because if you learn too much, you won't be able to express yourself freely with music.

3. Theory is too much over analyzing, which isn't to make great music. Just sit down and write how you feel.

4. Music theory is too hard. In order to understand it, you need to be incredibly intelligent, attend a university, etc....

5. Learning theory will take away from your playing time, and overall experience as a musician.

That is a great way of going about it.... if you like being THAT guy that doesn't know which fret an A note is on the 4th string... I hate playing with those guys.. not very fun at all..

Me: Dude were gonna end the chorus with a Major Seventh Chord..

Guy: ¯\(°_0)/¯ How do 7th Chord?

Yep, I hate that... (secondary note, I did major in music, so I loves my theory haha)

PS: I'm not saying that ALL people that don't know theory don't know which fret sounds an A note on the G string..

-Paul

 

[Masticore]

I dont know, you dont have to attend a university to understand theory, or advanced theory for that matter...

Theory is ever so important...example...Loomis is a mad shredder, but he doesnt do it blindly. He knows what scales are going to work over what progression and thus he can write a solo in any situation. Originally he played piano, and if you are great at piano that translates to ANY instrument. Tony Macalpine is another great example.

To be a true musician and artists, you need a solid understanding of what you are doing. Like the sig ive seen around here, any jazz guitarists can blow out 99% of metal guitarists, in terms of technique, and understanding.

In the end the ultimate goal is to understand so you can shatter the norm and standard! Analyzing your fave albums, riffs, solos, harmonies will lead you to a better understanding of whats going on underneath, and that can translate to your own writings!

While yes it is true becoming TO dependant on theory can ultimately hinder your overall creativity if you allow it to box you in, but if you realize thatit is a means to an end then, it will allow you to become more proficient at your craft.