How Much Do You Use Music Theory?

I did theory in college, like grade 5...

had to read music playing bass in the musicials for the performing arts groups... after that i'm left with basic music knowledge...

its a benefit to know... but i wouldn't have said necessary
 
I don't use it actively, can't read sheet music, don't know scales worth dick, view the fretboard in shapes, and don't play out of key.


I know a crapload of rhythm theory, harmonization, chord-building, and nothing else. I've never once wish I knew more, either.

This just about sums me up except there are times I wish I knew more ... such as Lydian ;)

However, NOT knowing more has never held me back in my playing or writing ... as far as I know

My old drummer who was a theory book unto himself used to tell me that I'd be scary if I actually knew what I was doing :lol:
 
That's all related to scales...

You're using theory without even knowing it, it's just nice to know what you're doing to make the music sound like, well music.

It's related to scales, but I still have no clue what I'm doing. I know what sounds like a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc, and when I hear it in my head, I know what to call it/where it's gonna be on the fretboard.

I absolutely loathe the notion that you have to "know what you're doing to make music sound like, well music," because it's a total house-of-cards argument.


Put it this way... some of the weakest clips I've heard on this forum are from people who highly tout the importance of music theory. Not taking pot shots at anyone in specific, but there is no correlation between knowing music theory and making good music.
 
I think everyone who is remotely into the playing or recording of instruments knows theory. Some folks dont know what a 5th is by name, but they probably could recognize it on the keys or guitar. Some folks have a better understanding, and some folks take it to the max.
People here do it all the time, they write the same repititive harmonic minor riff and then wank some diminished pattern for a return. They understand the formula and repeat it. So yea, I think everyone here has a concept of theory.
 
It's related to scales, but I still have no clue what I'm doing. I know what sounds like a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc, and when I hear it in my head, I know what to call it/where it's gonna be on the fretboard.

I absolutely loathe the notion that you have to "know what you're doing to make music sound like, well music," because it's a total house-of-cards argument.


Put it this way... some of the weakest clips I've heard on this forum are from people who highly tout the importance of music theory. Not taking pot shots at anyone in specific, but there is no correlation between knowing music theory and making good music.


Wouldn't it be nice to know what you're doing? Before I knew my scales, I was pretty much shooting in the dark. I learned to do it pretty well, mind you, but I felt much more comfortable and confident with what I was playing.

Plus, when jamming with fellow musicians, how would you tell them what key they're in?

I suppose there's nothing wrong without knowing any theory, but knowing something could do nothing but help.
 
Wouldn't it be nice to know what you're doing? Before I knew my scales, I was pretty much shooting in the dark. I learned to do it pretty well, mind you, but I felt much more comfortable and confident with what I was playing.

Plus, when jamming with fellow musicians, how would you tell them what key they're in?

I suppose there's nothing wrong without knowing any theory, but knowing something could do nothing but help.

I don't know if you realize it, but your statement implies that I don't know what I'm doing, which is hardly the case. Not everyone who doesn't know specific scales or modes is shooting in the dark - I know what sounds good in my head, and I know how to translate that onto the fretboard. I am never 'shooting in the dark' unless I really don't hear a melody, in which case I've got more to worry about than antiquated groupings of notes.

You find the root chord and go off that - base whatever shapes you're used to using to get the sound in your head off the root fret, and you're fine. I've never once ran into a problem with this - how often are you just 'free jamming' with musicians, anyways? Striking up a random chord progression and taking turns jerking off over it is not at all my idea of fun.

You're right, knowing it wouldn't hurt me, but it would waste a fair bit of time and effort.
 
I don't know if you realize it, but your statement implies that I don't know what I'm doing, which is hardly the case. Not everyone who doesn't know specific scales or modes is shooting in the dark - I know what sounds good in my head, and I know how to translate that onto the fretboard. I am never 'shooting in the dark' unless I really don't hear a melody, in which case I've got more to worry about than antiquated groupings of notes.

You find the root chord and go off that - base whatever shapes you're used to using to get the sound in your head off the root fret, and you're fine. I've never once ran into a problem with this - how often are you just 'free jamming' with musicians, anyways? Striking up a random chord progression and taking turns jerking off over it is not at all my idea of fun.

You're right, knowing it wouldn't hurt me, but it would waste a fair bit of time and effort.

I never jam like that, because of what you said, I was just giving an example. I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't know what you were doing either. Just saying it's good to know, and if you don't want to learn it, that's fine too.
 
I try to use it as little as possible, but i still end up thinking allot about what makes a specific part of a song sound like it does, in order to be able to continue on the same theme.
The thing that is most important when it comes to theory is song structure(For me that is.).. without a good song structure, you cant make a good song(You need to be able to create "the big picture".).

Mostly, i go on my gut feeling.. as its often what pleases the ear the most(As opposed to theory that pleases the mind.).
 
My advice.......
1.) learn the circle of fifths
2.) learn modal scales....once that's done, you can just move the root notes around.....(doesn't hurt to know the whole pentatonic scale here either....actually you should)
3.) learn triads, and scale tone triads, and inversions, this takes care of harmony and arps......again....just move the roots
4.) learn drop 2's and scale tone drop 2's, and inversions.....takes care of more harmony and arps......and again, you can just move the roots

Now really if you know the above, your pretty set, and it really doesn't take that long to write out a key's triads and apply them to scale tone roots, or learn 7 scale positions.

Then rest I'd just suggest on a need/want to know basis....eg, you want a different feeling for a solo or melody and you learn a harmonic or melodic minor scale.....but I really do think the above is somewhat of a necesity, but really those who even know parts of the above just instinktively fill in the gaps from personal taste or experience......I mean think about it, we have been exposoed to music from infancy.....my daughter instinctively knew how to dance to a beat (you know baby style....but on time) at the age of 6 months.

All the above will help you do is open doors for ideas.....and branch out your technique. And again, the above really doesn't take that long and is available online or in easy to read books....then if you learn the odd riff once and a while, you can see how others are applying the theory....= useful too

What you don't need:
- to know how to read music
- crazy chord progressions or crazy chords (unless you want to branch out)
- composition techniques (classical composotion follows a set of rules.....I don't like rules....if it sounds good, play it)
- transposition.......unless you plan on transposing that wicked guitar riff to your new hardcore tune to a trombone or something (kindof unlikely!)

But then again......I just say what you don't NEED because I don't think those are needed as a basis.....doesn't mean you can't have a thirst for knowledge.

Next, don't take it too seriously.....learn a piece of theory (as above), after that you'll probably get inspired, or come up with a wicked riff or idea.......stop practicing at this point and run with it....then when the well runs dry, learn the next piece and so-on.....it's not like you have a deadline or anything, fact is, if your asking the questions, your probably running dry and/or are curious so why not?

HTH
 
Hey All,

I'm new here but been a lurker for quite a while, my buddy 006 posts here a lot and he got me into reading here! Anyways, I saw this and though I could have something constructive to add.

I think a lot of people get a very wrong impression of what music theory is and does:

1) It does NOT limit you, there are only rules in classic composition such as baroque style etc., there ARE guidelines that if you follow them you will always sound like you know what the hell you are doing. But let me be clear, in modern music of any kind, contemporary classical, jazz, whatever else there's no rules, there are literally names for every single note you can play as an extension of a chord, it's just knowing how to target it so it sounds smooth and knowing how to resolve it so it works BEST, but anything truthfully goes. We'd never get anywhere if EVERYONE had to play by rules. Anyone who stops in the middle of a solo and says no I can't do that because theory wise it's wrong, clearly, does not know or understand music theory. It's just a foundation to build upon.

2) We all hate theory nazi's, I don't care what kind of music you like, no one likes to be told what they think sounds cool sounds like shit... but the reality is you can use ANY of the tones available, you've got scale degree 1,2,3,4,5,6 then of course the dim7 dom7 maj7, then you've got your 9, 11, 13 which can be modulated up or down by half steps, so there is literally a name for every single note, chromatic or diatonic and how it relates to the scale, NOTHING is off limits, however; to our ears which has been stated above, we have an inherent knowledge from listening to music for our entire lives so we have a "feeling" as to what sounds better, so many transitions will sound stronger or smoother or more dissonant etc., to our ears.

3) Don't ever let anyone tell you theory isn't useful, or it's scary, or it's hard, none of these are truths, I'm not exactly the smartest guy around, and I'm even picking up theory, I sucked at it, I mean horrifically bad when I first started, I could barely tell you what notes were in a given triad, I had no idea what the hell anything did, meant, or how it was related.

4) Theory will NOT hinder you creatively unless you LET it, if you think it's some black magic voodoo and you can't step outside the norms, yea it's going to hurt you, if you focus on proper voice leading, transitions and classical rules while your writing, metal, rock, blues, jazz or progressive stuff, yes it will hurt you. If you let your self become so focused on the analytical side of things rather than the making music, YES it will hurt you. However; the majority of the time it's a help, it makes it so you can say oh hey, I know already were in a major key so the strongest chords or a IV and V, or I'm in a minor key so the III is major, or I know that the Dorian mode of D is the same key signature as a C major scale. It's basically just a musical utility belt that allows you to have options and know what WILL work easily in a given situation and how you can best operate in that situation.

5) You don't need to be mindlessly running around playing shapes, patterns, and not knowing or understanding how your relating to any given key, note, chord, scale, resolution. I do this to this day, we all operate at different levels of theory, I'm getting BETTER about knowing what I'm playing, focusing on chord tones and stronger notes, resolutions and transitions, but the reality is I'm still VERY VERY weak in this department. The BEST guitar players I know, keep track of where they are, what notes they are on, how they relate to what they are playing over, and where they can go that will sound good and have something to say rather than letting their fingers do the work, they are thinking about it and literally composing on the fly. To me this seems nearly unobtainable and is incredibly advanced but a point at which I hope to be some day before I die... that being said it just seems impossible, but I know it can be done, because I can stop any of these guys during a solo, and they can tell me what note they were on, why they just played what they played, what they were going to play next, and how it all related to the chord or progression they were playing over.

It's all about how far you want to take it, and how much value it is to you, what is your goal as a musician, do you want to know enough to get by and communicate at a basic level, or do you want to hear something and know that your hearing a maj9th chord, or that someone is playing a double chromatic approach note to the maj7th, are you going to be a studio musician where your playing over the biggest pop songs in the world, or are you going to be an engineer. It's all about what skills you need to develop for the job you want to do, I say the more the better no one ever got hurt from knowing to much, just from over thinking, the more you know the more control you have over a situation. Just like when someone sits down to mix a song, if they only know how to hit the record button it's not going to get you very far right? With music we can do a lot with our ears, and there are countless great musicians that play just by what they hear, but it really kind of frees you up and takes you to an entirely new level when you really understand what your playing and why your playing it and how it's interacting with all the other chord tones, instruments, and singers etc.!

Hope that helps, great forum here by the way!

Dallas