How White Supremacists Are Using Black Metal to Promote Hate

[The Butt]

Oh look a deformed humanoid with a butt for a face, oh joy.

I will jizz on your pillows tonight.

 

[Funerary_Doom]

Accidentally deleted a post I made earlier when I was trying to edit it. There is a line though. Some NSBM bands are way more extreme within their lyrics than others. Bands like Aryan Terrorism and Der Strumer are way more extreme than Graveland. I can stomach Graveland because their lyrics are more nationalistic than racist. Nationalism doesn't bother me.

I'm Jamaican first generation with a damn accent and all, and I really think you just can't be too sensitive and be a fan of black metal. There's tons of hatred for women in it too. For some reason;however, I simply cannot stomach too much racism. It could be a double standard thing that race talk bothers me more than hate talk about women, but in actuality of a lot of the hate talk about women is just that--talk. Can't always say the same when they go off with the race shit.

 

[Dak]

I feel like you're trying to make several points and I don't quite see how they all connect, but I think the comparison to gore lyrics in death metal is a weak one. How many of those guys are actually going out and butchering people and fucking corpses. Probably none. Its fantasy lyrics for the most part. NS lyrics on the other hand tend to be really serious.

So it's only srs bsns if the writers are serious? Should this outlet be disallowed? Because, you know, if we can't see or hear it, it doesn't exist.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

So it's only srs bsns if the writers are serious? Should this outlet be disallowed? Because, you know, if we can't see or hear it, it doesn't exist.

I already said it should be allowed and that I support their freedom of speech.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I feel like you're trying to make several points and I don't quite see how they all connect, but I think the comparison to gore lyrics in death metal is a weak one. How many of those guys are actually going out and butchering people and fucking corpses. Probably none. Its fantasy lyrics for the most part. NS lyrics on the other hand tend to be really serious.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of gore/rape-themed death metal and *core bands are fat ugly misogynists though. Off the top of my head I don't know any NS bands that have committed crimes in the name of their ideology either (I'm sure there are a few but...)

 

[prozak]

Bands like Nyogthaeblisz who aren't outright NS but still spout anti-semitism annoy me because they conflate anti-monotheism with anti-semitism.

And worse, many anti-monotheists actually should own up to being anti-dualists and not much else.

Christianity is a choice. Being a (religious) Jew is a choice. They are ideologies, values and metaphysical beliefs that people can chose to accept or reject.

I'm not sure it matters, unless we're moralizing. If someone has a genetic defect that causes them to rape, should we excuse it when they go out and rape our daughters/wives/mothers/USBM bands?

 

[crimsonfloyd]

And worse, many anti-monotheists actually should own up to being anti-dualists and not much else.

Eh that's true for some mostly the athiests, but many are pagans with either dualist or panthiest/panpsychist belief systems.

I'm not sure it matters, unless we're moralizing. If someone has a genetic defect that causes them to rape, should we excuse it when they go out and rape our daughters/wives/mothers/USBM bands?

Personally I am opposed to racism on both moral and empirical grounds. If you've got a problem with the moral angle then I'd just point to the fact that racists tend to make a fallacious jump from a cultural construct (which is all race is) to a biological category (something race is not).

As for the bolded part, of course not, but I'm struggling to see what that has to do with race.

 

[Addo_Of_Nex]

And worse, many anti-monotheists actually should own up to being anti-dualists and not much else.

Pray tell, what is the fucking point behind this statement?

 

[Onder]

"This is a smear campaign with ad hominem attacks simply because the band is openly ANTI-JEW.”

Oh NWN forums.. I love that smell. I can taste it just from reading that sentence.

Also, I went to that page and a window popped up saying that I should give them money to keep jewish journalism alive, haha.

 

[Summerian]

Christianity is a choice. Being a (religious) Jew is a choice.

Can't get behind that. Most people religious have been indoctrinated since early childhood. It's brainwashing hiding behind it's our culture.
One should look at organized religion as a drug. The emotional high of belonging is apparently very high.
And the punishment (social consequences) for leaving the sect also very high.
Can't really say kids have a choice when mom and dad tells them God is real and anyone who says different is the devil (also real).

 

[Addo_Of_Nex]

Yeah, no.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Can't get behind that. Most people religious have been indoctrinated since early childhood. It's brainwashing hiding behind it's our culture.
One should look at organized religion as a drug. The emotional high of belonging is apparently very high.
And the punishment (social consequences) for leaving the sect also very high.
Can't really say kids have a choice when mom and dad tells them God is real and anyone who says different is the devil (also real).

With the exception of young kids and the mentally disabled I would argue every religious person makes a choice to be religious. Throughout their lives they are given numerous opportunities to renounce their faith and if they stay with their faith, that is a choice.

There's often a lot of social and psychological pressure to remain religious but that doesn't mean it's not a choice. Some people might make the choice to never seriously consider the possibility that God does not exist because they don't want to deal with the social and psychological consequences, but that in and of itself is a choice.

Running with your drug analogy, some addicts make a choice to change their life and do whatever it takes to get clean, while others decide to take the easy route and continue to feed their addiction. It's no different with religion.

 

[Summerian]

With the exception of young kids and the mentally disabled I would argue every religious person makes a choice to be religious. Throughout their lives they are given numerous opportunities to renounce their faith and if they stay with their faith, that is a choice.

There's often a lot of social and psychological pressure to remain religious but that doesn't mean it's not a choice. Some people might make the choice to never seriously consider the possibility that God does not exist because they don't want to deal with the social and psychological consequences, but that in and of itself is a choice.

Running with your drug analogy, some addicts make a choice to change their life and do whatever it takes to get clean, while others decide to take the easy route and continue to feed their addiction. It's no different with religion.

pft
Would you also argue that addicts make the same choice every day?
That they want squalor and pain? That's absurd. How about poverty? Are the poor perhaps really happy?
If they could end their addiction they of course would.
Understanding addiction is knowing that the choice part has been removed. Or else it wouldn't be addiction.
Also, people are biologically different. Different people may reach the point of addiction at different stages. Some just don't become addicts at all.
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/addiction/genetics/
It may be harder for people with certain genes to quit once they start. Or they may experience more severe withdrawal symptoms if they try to quit. Factors that make it harder to become addicted also may be genetic.
Real addiction changes the brain.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/addiction1.htm
the drug has essentially taken over the brain
http://www.helpguide.org/harvard/addiction_hijacks_brain.htm
The "you always have a choice" BS is just a liberal cop out.
Don't have to accept any social responsibility if the victim can be blamed.
http://www.bradfordhealth.com/articles/the-link-between-drug-addiction-and-sexual-addiction/
Like drug addicts, sex addicts become addicted to the feelings they experience when certain chemical changes occur in the brain.
Sex addiction is perhaps the best way to show what makes Xians stay put. That and Social conditioning.
We all wear clothes, even at hot summer days - Social conditioning. An atheist talking to a theist is like me walking up to you saying you should take your clothes off.
Or telling you you should take off all that gold your wearing because E = mc² and you wouldn't be carrying around a bunch of lead, would you?

Don't hate Xians, pity them.

 

[Ghilou]

The "you always have a choice" BS is just a liberal cop out.
Don't have to accept any social responsibility if the victim can be blamed.

Thank you Sir.
Now back on BM, I find it hard to dissociate the genre from extremist views. Burzum is actually more than just influential: he and a bunch of other individuals actually created the genre, imbuing it with white supremacist thesis from the very beginning.

I don't like bm much but I would actually avoid a show for this very reason.
That plus the fact I have been at shows with NS skinhead in the attendance and I did not enjoy it very much (I look like victim material)

 

[Onder]

Metal can be pro-Islam.

 

[Kara-Shehr]

lul

 

[prozak]

With the exception of young kids and the mentally disabled I would argue every religious person makes a choice to be religious.

I used to agree.

Now, I'm not sure most people make conscious choices in life at all. Many for good reason: gut instinct, culture and habit are better guides than they're capable of being for themselves.

I think religion is also culture. If you're born in the South, then god, guns and gravy is part of the identity you bear. It's who your people are, and what you want to be. Same for being a Muslim in the middle east, or being born Jewish (which is an ethnicity -- two actually, culture, and religion in one).

And worse, many anti-monotheists actually should own up to being anti-dualists and not much else.

Pray tell, what is the fucking point behind this statement?

That many who think they oppose monotheism are actually opposing dualism. Interesting discussion of adualism has begun in another thread.

Dualism -- this is oversimplifying -- is the idea of external control to the world. There's our reality, and then somewhere else in a place where totally different rules apply is the actual archetype of our world. Many call this neoPlatonism because it perverts the basic idea of Platonism, which is that consistent logic begets consistent forms and that idea precedes essence, in order to show us a "higher" way of living.

I find dualism to be pants-on-head retarded madness.

Adualism on the other hand suggests a divinity within this world. Our rules are the rules. But there's a way to move up the chain.

 

[B_Creamy]

I used to agree.

Now, I'm not sure most people make conscious choices in life at all. Many for good reason: gut instinct, culture and habit are better guides than they're capable of being for themselves.

I think religion is also culture. If you're born in the South, then god, guns and gravy is part of the identity you bear. It's who your people are, and what you want to be. Same for being a Muslim in the middle east, or being born Jewish (which is an ethnicity -- two actually, culture, and religion in one).

You have no concept of human agency if you don't think that what crimsonfloyd said was fundamentally true. Regardless of cultural or environmental factors everyone makes a choice.