I don't think I like the Mesa Traditional/Stiletto Cab

[Soundlurker]

Guitarhack, the fizz may be due to some reflections. I don't remember if you tried recording in a big room just for comparison with the same settings and as similar mic position as possible, but it might be worth a shot.

 

[GuitarHack]

Ermz thanks for the other rig idea. I just think something has changed (or broken itself ).

Here's 2 clips I reamped back in Feb of last year through the Traditional Cab, 1 Rev and 1 6505. These don't have as massive a fizz problem that I am having now with the OS. They may not be 100% perfect but they are probably better than I am getting now. They are double-tracked, with some lead tracks on top in places. They are Raw, as-recorded.

Shadow, these samples were recorded in a tiny room (quite dead). I am now (have been for some time) using a room 3.5M X 4.6 M with angled (bay) windows on one end. I do have a some larger rooms (6M X 4.6M) to try but that would piss the missus off too much.

Here's the clips:

Rev
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ymiwbzzzmz5

6505
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ytndvtljzdm

 

[Soundlurker]

Is the room you are using now also dead?

 

[Savo]

Although I love mesa boogie amps I'm generally not a fan of their cabs. They're mostly either too woolly or too bassy for me. Almost all of my favorite tones are either Marshall or ENGL cabs.

Then behold......

 

[DevilJaw]

guitarhack,

i've experienced these same fizzy results with my setup as well, ive reamped with a firepod, 6505 and into a my line 6 spider valve(same size as traditional cab with v30) and i also have the mesa os cab to compare with.

your clip sounds a lot like my clips with just a 57, but i find that you can get away from the fizz considerably when find the right mics to work against each other.

but here is probably a very important factor if not the most, yeah you can kind of guess at your phase alignment, but ive learned for huge tones espcially hi gain tones that we love so much, is that getting a perfect phase alignment is crucial with the right mics, when i mean perfect i mean actaully zooming in on your tracks in your daw and checking with a microscope and seeing if they are the same. getting multiple mics working together, like your 57+57, 57+421 is what you need sometimes, single mics doesnt seem to cut it for taming fizz(not always, just when the amp/cab is considerably fizzy), when using multiple mics, the goal with higain tones is to use one core mic for the bulk of the tone, then the 2nd mic can either reinforce or cancel out stuff, so you can essentially mask the fizz by canceling it out, much better than using an eq.

lets just say to get this right is a fucking pain in the ass, ive yelled and nearly back hand slapped people who knocked a positioned mic, because they just ruined 30 mins of setup for 1 mic.

have your tried the white noise technique?

 

[Ermz]

Phase aligning 2 mics on a cab can be a nightmare... I spent about 15 minutes trying it with an i5 and SM57 and got NOWHERE. Putting them at equal volumes canceled out all bass and lower mids - it was insane. I think next time round I'll try the method of running the mics through cans and adjusting one until they cancel each other out almost 100%, then phase flip one. Badabing, done.

 

[DevilJaw]

NO! NO! NO!, don't phase flip, that doesn't do crap for what your trying to achieve, phase aligning i think is the most important thing for hi gain tones, you can get nowhere if you don't know what to listen for. but having a tool for measurement, in this case white noise for the 2nd mic is good way to align them perfectly.

 

[Metaltastic]

By 'those amps' do you mean Triple Recs or Recs in general?

Sorry, I meant the three-channel Duals and Triples specifically

 

[GuitarHack]

guitarhack,

i've experienced these same fizzy results with my setup as well, ive reamped with a firepod, 6505 and into a my line 6 spider valve(same size as traditional cab with v30) and i also have the mesa os cab to compare with.

your clip sounds a lot like my clips with just a 57, but i find that you can get away from the fizz considerably when find the right mics to work against each other.

but here is probably a very important factor if not the most, yeah you can kind of guess at your phase alignment, but ive learned for huge tones espcially hi gain tones that we love so much, is that getting a perfect phase alignment is crucial with the right mics, when i mean perfect i mean actaully zooming in on your tracks in your daw and checking with a microscope and seeing if they are the same. getting multiple mics working together, like your 57+57, 57+421 is what you need sometimes, single mics doesnt seem to cut it for taming fizz(not always, just when the amp/cab is considerably fizzy), when using multiple mics, the goal with higain tones is to use one core mic for the bulk of the tone, then the 2nd mic can either reinforce or cancel out stuff, so you can essentially mask the fizz by canceling it out, much better than using an eq.

lets just say to get this right is a fucking pain in the ass, ive yelled and nearly back hand slapped people who knocked a positioned mic, because they just ruined 30 mins of setup for 1 mic.

have your tried the white noise technique?

Thanks dude. I will give the multi-mic a proper attempt. Thanks again for the tips. Appreciated.

Shadow, no this room is not as dead. There are curtains at one end and a few doors (so there are no totally flat parallel surfaces). There is some furniture against the parallel walls also. It is on the "bright" side I guess though overall.

Sorry Ermz, I will not ake any more space in your thread. .

 

[Soundlurker]

How about surrounding a small area around the cab with acoustic panels to see if it gets better?

 

[Ermz]

NO! NO! NO!, don't phase flip, that doesn't do crap for what your trying to achieve, phase aligning i think is the most important thing for hi gain tones, you can get nowhere if you don't know what to listen for. but having a tool for measurement, in this case white noise for the 2nd mic is good way to align them perfectly.

It's a technique suggested by some engineers. Have one mic phase flipped, find the point where the two cancel each other out almost entirely, then flip back. An easier method of getting the two in phase.

I agree phase coherency is crucial. If I were using the clapper board technique, I'd be more inclined to try something like running a click through the amp and using that to align the two.