I find Black Sabbath albums "Black Sabbath" and "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" to be BARELY metal albums

[CiG]

bahahhaha read what you quoted. Are you still half asleep?

And again .... are Dio, Maiden, Priest etc power metal bands?

Obviously not and I never said they were nor implied that. What I'm saying is OP seems incapable of understanding that the culmination of a genre won't sound the same as its origins, and USPM is an early form of power metal that doesn't sound all that similar to the more flowery Euro bands.

Leaving Manowar aside, you also have Ample Destruction out in '84 that is a certified classic of USPM.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Who cares if Walls of Jericho isn't purely power metal? The power metal it does contain is pretty damn power-y. Certainly one of the closest albums in 1985, at least (though I'd argue Europe's S/T and maybe Queensryche's The Warning were closer). Metallica doesn't have a pure thrash metal album but no one says their first four albums aren't thrash.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Obviously not and I never said they were nor implied that. What I'm saying is OP seems incapable of understanding that the culmination of a genre won't sound the same as its origins, and USPM is an early form of power metal that doesn't sound all that similar to the more flowery Euro bands.

Leaving Manowar aside, you also have Ample Destruction out in '84 that is a certified classic of USPM.

Clearly the guy is taking about power metal as we know it today, ala the flowery stuff. I thought that was clear form his first post. Im not sure he even knows what USPM is. And i agree Ample Destruction is definitely one of the first USPM albums, but plenty of people would disagree. I've had people here argue with when i said that album was USPM.

You asked me what the difference between creating a genre of music and influence a subgerne is. But yet when i named bands that are clearly some of the biggest influences on the genre of USPM, you deny it? You're zig-zagging.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Piece of Mind and Powerslave are more power metal than Ample Destruction. More overt harmony, more anthemic choruses and epic themes. Ample Destruction is sonically and stylistically closest to Metal Church's S/T if anything.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Who cares if Walls of Jericho isn't purely power metal? The power metal it does contain is pretty damn power-y. Certainly one of the closest albums in 1985, at least (though I'd argue Europe's S/T and maybe Queensryche's The Warning were closer). Metallica doesn't have a pure thrash metal album but no one says their first four albums aren't thrash.

So Walls of Jericho has more power metal than Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets have thrash?

also "powerful" heavy metal(as if we can only apply that to power metal bands lmao) does not automatically mean it's power metal. That would be like saying all bands that play fast are speed metal bands. Manowar are not a power metal band. Im surprised that this i actually up for debate on heavy metal forum.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

tbh my copy has the Helloween EP attached, so I never really remembered exactly which songs belonged to which. Looking it over I'll retract regarding Jericho and admit you're right, but say that the Helloween EP is more power metal (about ~3.5 out of 5 songs) than Ride the Lightning is thrash (4 out of 8 songs).

I mostly agree if you're talking about just the classic Ross the Boss era albums, but there are a few songs that more or less can pass as it.

 

[CiG]

Clearly the guy is taking about power metal as we know it today, ala the flowery stuff. I thought that was clear form his first post.

I didn't, this was his first post: "Power metal has zero musical influence from early BS."

He didn't really specify anything, which is why my next response was: "What power metal are you referring to exactly? I hear Sabbath influence on say, Manowar's debut. Or does that not count? The problem here is when you start citing albums as examples when those albums were primarily influenced by earlier albums in the genre that had more Sabbath influence in them, but by the time it becomes the kind of power metal most people would recognize as such, the filtering process has happened."

I don't give a shit if he doesn't know what USPM is, that's on him. If you make absolute statements like "Halloween is the first power metal band and Keeper of the Seven Keys pt. 1 is the first power metal album" someone somewhere is going to point out that power metal was already brewing in America many years prior. He should have been more specific if he meant the flowery stuff only, or he should have taken the time to educate himself on USPM.

You asked me what the difference between creating a genre of music and influence a subgerne is. But yet when i named bands that are clearly some of the biggest influences on the genre of USPM, you deny it? You're zig-zagging.

They influenced the creators of power metal, that doesn't mean they're power metal, at least not by my standards on how genres and subgenres work. Similarly I wouldn't say blues bands are heavy metal because they influenced Black Sabbath who created the genre.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

but say that the Helloween EP is more power metal

ok you definitely lost me here, that's my favorite Helloween release and has less power metal than Walls Of Jericho if i remember correctly.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

They influenced the creators of power metal, that doesn't mean they're power metal, at least not by my standards on how genres and subgenres work. Similarly I wouldn't say blues bands are heavy metal because they influenced Black Sabbath who created the genre.

yes i know they're not power metal, that is my point. Just because a band is largely influential to a subgenre(which is not equivalent to basically birthing an entire genre of music) does not automatically mean they belong do that said subgenre. Anyone with a working set of ears can tell Manowar are not a power metal band.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

USPM is a bit of niche, internet-nerd term to be fair. I wouldn't expect the average guy to know it nor to necessarily have a clear idea of the relation between USPM and Euro power. My dad is a big fan of the big Euro power bands, and during a chat one time, he was pretty surprised that anyone would consider Queensryche, Fates Warning, Jag Panzer, etc to be power metal (though when I made him play Queensyche's Before the Storm and Helloween's You Always Walk Alone back to back I managed to convince him a little).

The USPM delineation is almost a millennial/zoomer thing that screws with metal boomer's minds, and if we're being strict about it, it's not even necessarily the most historical view. I mean, Helloween was almost certainly more influenced by Accept than by Manowar, for example, and early USPM bands were often influenced by Accept as well.

 

[Allfader]

Poor lad that thinks metal is all about production (apparent heaviness) and not about the musical aspects that makes it stand on its own (songwriting = rhythm, melody, harmony).

 

[Slammed]

Poor people who spend hours on hours arguing about genres and sub genres instead of just listening to music and enjoying it.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

poor people who enjoy garbage like this ...

 

[Slammed]

That would be me. Woohoo!

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

That would be me. Woohoo!

you white dog you ...

 

[Slammed]

Na I can't watch that, it's not power metal.
Back to the Black Dog.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

it's not power metal.

psshhhh, says who??? That's clearly Australian heavy/power metal.

 

[Slammed]

Clearly.

 

[CiG]

AUPM.

 

[Slammed]

Yes it is and it's AUAM where you are.