I love bootleggers!

[General Zod]

So, once more, stop trying to always argue Aeonic Slumber's pov, stop always taking him for nothing more than a troll, and please LISTEN and LEARN to what he has to say.

So you'd like the entire board to extend to him a courtesy he doesn't see fit to extend the board? Is that the new rule of law around here? So long as you have industry insights you can belittle people as you see fit?

Internet forums are sub-cultures onto themselves. These sub-cultures have rules, both written and unwritten. Everyone from the promoter to the bands who post here, communicates within those rules. There are no exceptions. It's unreasonable to expect the board to bend to accommodate a single poster. That poster will eventually yield or leave (voluntarily or involuntarily).

By and large, I have no issue with Aeonic. We bumped heads a bit when he first started posting, but generally, I enjoy the content of his posts. His posts are well written and his perspective is driven more by practical knowledge than a fanboy mentality (something this board could use more of). That said, the way he frames his content can leave something to be desired. As Magius adeptly pointed out, you can make your point without being condescending and dismissive.

I genuinely hope Aeonic takes a step back, thinks about that and chooses to alter his approach a bit. If he does, I suspect he'll quickly become one of the more respected posters on the board. If he doesn't, he's likely to find this board an increasingly hostile place.

Zod

 

[Claus / Intromental]

So you'd like the entire board to extend to him a courtesy he doesn't see fit to extend the board? Is that the new rule of law around here? So long as you have industry insights you can belittle people as you see fit?

Internet forums are sub-cultures onto themselves. These sub-cultures have rules, both written and unwritten. Everyone from the promoter to the bands who post here, communicates within those rules. There are no exceptions. It's unreasonable to expect the board to bend to accommodate a single poster. That poster will eventually yield or leave (voluntarily or involuntarily).

By and large, I have no issue with Aeonic. We bumped heads a bit when he first started posting, but generally, I enjoy the content of his posts. His posts are well written and his perspective is driven more by practical knowledge than a fanboy mentality (something this board could use more of). That said, the way he frames his content can leave something to be desired. As Magius adeptly pointed out, you can make your point without being condescending and dismissive.

I genuinely hope Aeonic takes a step back, thinks about that and chooses to alter his approach a bit. If he does, I suspect he'll quickly become one of the more respected posters on the board. If he doesn't, he's likely to find this board an increasingly hostile place.

Zod

No! You're not reading my post correctly.

I'm saying: he apparently knows what he is talking about, and people show time and time again that they don't want to listen to him and instead write everything he says off as another "trolling post". Sure, he has a weird way of communicating with others, and he is very hostile. But it goes 2 ways, and waaaaayyyy too many times people piss him off by jumping at his throat when he is making a valid point.

c.

 

[General Zod]

No! You're not reading my post correctly.

I believe I understand what you're saying perfectly. I simply think you're putting the cart before the horse.

I'm saying: he apparently knows what he is talking about, and people show time and time again that they don't want to listen to him and instead write everything he says off as another "trolling post". Sure, he has a weird way of communicating with others, and he is very hostile.

I understand and agree. Here's where we differ. I think it's unrealistic to expect the board, as a whole, to take that first step. You can't call someone an idiot and then reasonably expect them to read past the point where you've called them an idiot and then absorb any wisdom you offer after that point.

But it goes 2 ways, and waaaaayyyy too many times people piss him off by jumping at his throat when he is making a valid point.

Yes, but that's the bed he's made. He set a precedent in previous threads. If he wants things to change, he's going to need to initiate that change, not the board. If he starts treating people with respect, that respect will be returned. Unfortunately, he's reached the point where he now may need to turn the cheek a few times, before things return to a level of mutual respect.

As I said, I think he's a quality poster and I appreciate his insights. I simply think he needs to do the mature thing, take a step back and rethink his approach.

Zod

 

[Harvester]

Very nice Zod.

 

[jaimek]

Just chiming in to remark that if I could have gotten a $5-10 soundboard copy of some of the shows I've seen, including some PP sets, I'd be all over that shit. I rarely watch video and have little interest in shelling out for music DVDs (I only own Rush in Rio and A Night To Remember), but I love a good clean live show on audio.

 

[TribunalRecords]

I've got to say - Aeonic Slumber is right on the money. Listen to what he says and learn, instead of writing him off as a troll - the guy knows what he is talking about.

So, before you all go "you don't know shit either then" on me, let me remind you that I've worked in this business for 13+ years and have arranged and done tons of tours around the world with my bands, gotten tons of record deals in place etc and I've firsthanded witnessed what Aeonic Slumber is talking about (i.e. venues charging you if you want to record through their soundboard, record contracts where labels own rights to your live albums, etc etc).

In a perfect world we'd be able to supply you, the fans, with a soundboard recording to purchase the day after a show, and trust me, it's something we've thoughts about doing and might eventually try out, but we're VERY realistic about it all, and we know very well we'll make no money out of it and we'll never get rid of the bootlegging industry either that way.

So, once more, stop trying to always argue Aeonic Slumber's pov, stop always taking him for nothing more than a troll, and please LISTEN and LEARN to what he has to say.

Thanxxx,
c.

i think it's funny that now that Claus has "chimed in" somehow it's more reputable a source (not putting you down Claus as i am already in tune with what you do) than Aeonic Slumber or myself would be.

we are in the industry (myself over 10 years now), as well, and seem to know a few things about how it works, but since we are not within the PP circle somehow our opinions are written off and tones determined "abrasive". i am not sure if the SA thread mentioned was the same thread i discussed my dislike for SA and was ridiculed for it.

it's a messageboard, tones are how YOU read them. i doubt anyone on here gets abrasive or upset in the long run. i know i don't lose sleep over it.

i will say this as a something i have always thoughts about this board (myself as a member) when someone made the statement that PP bands play for "thousands" of people a night when they tour. that is LAUGHABLE. i saw symphony x with about 300 people in charlotte (and that was pushing it). basically, it's the fact that most people are slightly out of touch as to how big some metal bands really are. i am not talking crap, but as an observer of this board just something that i noticed along the way.

PP is the biggest night most of these bands see in the US and that is a reality unless they are playing huge markets like NYC or LA.

the real world is these bands aren't that huge, but when you combine their worldwide appeal and fanbase it's huge, but again not massive in the US like they "appear" to be each year at PP.

bottom line: bootlegging is bad and the fact Geraldo or whatever his name is thinks he is going to make money off of that crap is hilarious. i agree, it's youtube material at best.



suggestion for next fest. post his face on a poster at the front entrance for all of us to see and we can do our part and slap him in the face and say "you know what you did!"

 

[PurpleCrayonWriter]

i think it's funny that now that Claus has "chimed in" somehow it's more reputable a source (not putting you down Claus as i am already in tune with what you do) than Aeonic Slumber or myself would be.

we are in the industry (myself over 10 years now), as well, and seem to know a few things about how it works, but since we are not within the PP circle somehow our opinions are written off and tones determined "abrasive". i am not sure if the SA thread mentioned was the same thread i discussed my dislike for SA and was ridiculed for it.

it's a messageboard, tones are how YOU read them. i doubt anyone on here gets abrasive or upset in the long run. i know i don't lose sleep over it.

i will say this as a something i have always thoughts about this board (myself as a member) when someone made the statement that PP bands play for "thousands" of people a night when they tour. that is LAUGHABLE. i saw symphony x with about 300 people in charlotte (and that was pushing it). basically, it's the fact that most people are slightly out of touch as to how big some metal bands really are. i am not talking crap, but as an observer of this board just something that i noticed along the way.

PP is the biggest night most of these bands see in the US and that is a reality unless they are playing huge markets like NYC or LA.

the real world is these bands aren't that huge, but when you combine their worldwide appeal and fanbase it's huge, but again not massive in the US like they "appear" to be each year at PP.

bottom line: bootlegging is bad and the fact Geraldo or whatever his name is thinks he is going to make money off of that crap is hilarious. i agree, it's youtube material at best.



suggestion for next fest. post his face on a poster at the front entrance for all of us to see and we can do our part and slap him in the face and say "you know what you did!"

Since much of your post seems to quote my previous posts, I'd like to comment.

First, I never wrote that the bands played to "thousands" every night. I wrote that during the course of their tours they'd play to thousands. Perhaps I wasn't clear in my wording. I meant playing here and abroad, a few hundred a night over the course of a tour that lasts a few months would account for "thousands." I apologize for making a statement that appears "laughable" to you.

Second, I don't know you. I don't know Aeonic Slumber. But I do know Claus (by reputation, by association with Intromental, and through e-mails now and then). I trust Claus as much as I trust Glenn. So when Claus "chimed in" that meant a lot to me. It was no slight to you or AS.

Third, there's more to a message board than tone. It's not always how someone reads a post. Sometimes words are quite clearly sarcastic, negative, condescending, etc. So I'd disagree with you that posts are subjective to the point of personal opinion. When I noted that AS's replies to my idea were "abrasive," I wasn't merely stating a subjective opinion. They clearly were sarcastic and disrespectful -- as others have pointed out as well.

Fourth, I doubt anyone loses sleep over things posted here. But I think the majority of people who post here know the rules of the road ("Play Nice"). Plus, we post fully aware that any of us is likely to bump into a fellow poster at an upcoming ProgPower USA event some time in the future. I'd hate to think something I posted would earn me an ass kicking at said event. So I try to post as if I'm standing face to face with someone, because that's very likely to happen.

Finally, it appears we're all in agreement regarding people like Gerardo, bootleggers who steal from bands, promoters, and even fans. My comments to Glenn's post were just an idea to stop guys like Gerardo. Clearly, my ideas won't work the way I thought they might. But that's okay. Now I know. So I'll spend time thinking of other ways bands and promoters can make money so that people like Gerardo don't.

Cheers,

Bill

 

[TribunalRecords]

Fourth, I doubt anyone loses sleep over things posted here. But I think the majority of people who post here know the rules of the road ("Play Nice"). Plus, we post fully aware that any of us is likely to bump into a fellow poster at an upcoming ProgPower USA event some time in the future. I'd hate to think something I posted would earn me an ass kicking at said event. So I try to post as if I'm standing face to face with someone, because that's very likely to happen.
Bill

i agree, actually.