I think something is wrong with my DI signal.

[Keregioz]

So guys, I need you to listen to these DIs and tell me if they sound right.

I recently checked Ermz's DIs in this thread : http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/770945-esp-horizon-dis-you-killswitch-content.html
and noticed that mine sound really "boomy" and muddier (once they've been reamped) compared to his. I used EMG707 so I know that they should sound at least as tight, if not tighter than the passives that were used in those DIs.

The chain is: schecter C7 blackjack with EMG707 -> countryman type 85 -> focusrite saffire pro 24 (the strings were brand new)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/316805/DI_01.mp3

And here is a clip with Ermz's DI the first few seconds, and then mine to compare.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/316805/DI_compare.mp3

update: re-recorded the DI to remove clipping and updated the links.


Is this normal? If not, any suggestions on what could be wrong?

 

[Ascendant]

Sounds like the playing is a lot softer in your clip, a DI that was played too soft equates to a muddy tone. Harder picking and palm muting will make the high end and pick attack more prominent in the DI which I guess makes the tone relatively less muddy. Also the good ol' play-closer-to-the-bridge trick might help. My 2¢.

Other than that it can be hard to judge a DI without running it through an amp/sim. Perhaps post a comparison between the two through an amp of some sort.

 

[JakeAC5253]

Sounds like EMG's and a guitar with new strings to me. The Alt 8 has a very prominent high end bite, and your pickup is full of low and high mids with relaxed center mids. Just two different pickups, and maybe different playing style, like said above it sounds like you are picking with a feather hand.

I might be able to run it through my amp to road test it, but not until you fix that clipping.

 

[Keregioz]

I can assure you that I'm not a "light picker", and also I used a tortex 1.35 sharp pick, which anyone that has used one knows that it doesn't really work for "light picking" .
But yes, the other DI has a much more snappier attack and I can't get that no matter how hard I hit the strings. Maybe it's because I use heavier gauge strings (the two low strings that I play in the clip are 0.70 and 0.52). But I also think it's the increased low end of the DI signal that dampens the attack, which I don't think is normal.

I updated the links with DIs without any clipping.

 

[Rex Rocker]

Yeah, if the 707 is anything like the 85, which I believe it is, it is a pretty dark pickup when it comes to attack-y-ness (?).

The Alt. 8, I haven't tried, but being a modified Duncan Distortion, I'd expect it to be pretty bright.

That, and your guitar is a big chunk of mahogany, isn't it? Mahogany neck and body without a maple top? I believe the one in Ermz's DI's was an ESP horizon (maple neck thru with a maple top). That could also account for the bigger low-end and darker attack on yours.


Bottom line: I don't think you are tracking your DI's wrong, it's just that your guitar sounds different.

Don't like the big low-end and smoother attack? Maybe you should give the 81-7 a try.

 

[Mago]

different guitar with different pickup is the reason I'd say.
I think the Horizons are strat like (woodwise) + ebony fretboard and the schecters are all mahagony + rosewood.
I dunno which version of the horizon ermz used tho, I think the new ones also have a mahagony body now.

 

[JHA]

Like mentioned already, I would pay attention to at which point you pick the strings ie. the closer to the bridge the treblier/less bassy the sound gets. You can also alter the boominess of your mutes a lot depending how you mute the strings. If different guitar is not an option, try different picks/strings/string gauges.

 

[Keregioz]

Thanks for your answers guys. It's not that I want my DIs to sound exactly like Ermz's, I'm just worried that, based on the huge difference, something is wrong with mine. I understand that they are different guitars/pickups but it still seemed strange how much more low end there is in mine.
Also, I'm fairly confident that my picking/muting is not the problem.
Mago, the horizon has mahogany body with maple top, and maple neck with neck-thru construction.

 

[Robert W]

Schecters, from my experience, tend to sound a little more muffled/woolier because they're 1) big hunks of mahogany, and 2) Schecter puts a thick layer of paint on their better quality guitars.

There was a guy on sevenstring.com that stripped his Hellraiser because he thought the tone he was getting out of his was a little too wooly sounding for his personal taste. I remember him mentioning that the paint was layered on so thick that it almost felt like a layer of plastic. Anyways, he posted some before and after clips, and the after clips were definitely brighter.

 

[akarawd]

What did Ermz use in terms of AD/preamp ? A muddy/boomy signal can
be greatly associated to that.

Just a thought.
Thanos



PS. I owned a schecter with emgs and had to return it 'cause it sounded a bit "wooly" to me - but that's my personal taste not a comparison.

 

[Keregioz]

Schecters, from my experience, tend to sound a little more muffled/woolier because they're 1) big hunks of mahogany, and 2) Schecter puts a thick layer of paint on their better quality guitars.

There was a guy on sevenstring.com that stripped his Hellraiser because he thought the tone he was getting out of his was a little too wooly sounding for his personal taste. I remember him mentioning that the paint was layered on so thick that it almost felt like a layer of plastic. Anyways, he posted some before and after clips, and the after clips were definitely brighter.

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/equipment/699871-new-guitar-day-sort.html

What did Ermz use in terms of AD/preamp ? A muddy/boomy signal can
be greatly associated to that.

Just a thought.
Thanos



PS. I owned a schecter with emgs and had to return it 'cause it sounded a bit "wooly" to me - but that's my personal taste not a comparison.

I'm sure that the preamps Ermz used are considered far better than mine, but could they make that much of a difference? I think the preamps in my saffire pro24 are considered decent enough.

And btw, I have tried with my other guitar, a Carvin (neck-thru, ash body-maple top, walnut/maple neck, maple fretboard, dimarzio crunchlab) which are generaly considered brighter guitars and the DIs sound even boomier.

 

[akarawd]

I'm sure that the preamps Ermz used are considered far better than mine, but could they make that much of a difference? I think the preamps in my saffire pro24 are considered decent enough.

A day and night difference. It's worth trying a different setup, just to rule this part of your chain out.

Curious to see what the cause is.

 

[JHA]

Have you tried without the Countryman direct box? Saffire Pro 24 has > 1 megaohm impedance in it's instrument input which is enough for guitar pickups. Or is there some particular reason you're using an active DI-box in between?

 

[Keregioz]

Have you tried without the Countryman direct box? Saffire Pro 24 has > 1 megaohm impedance in it's instrument input which is enough for guitar pickups. Or is there some particular reason you're using an active DI-box in between?

Yes, and I also tried using my pod as a DI box. I had similar results with both methods.

 

[Mago]

you can try to record some DI's somewhere else, or with a different interface.
I still think it's guitar...
But I didn't have any 707 DI's yet, so maybe its normal with that PU...

 

[metalfanat1c]

Try lowering your action. That will make your guitar brighter, depending on how low you take it.

 

[blue_fAng]

Keregioz did you find the problem of your tone? I'm interested in getting a blackjack or a hellraiser because they have the sound i love but only in mic'd clips. I have a countryman and a saffire pro 40, maybe its your saffire the weakest part of the chain because its middle range? Could you give us an update?

 

[Keregioz]

No updates...I'm still not sure if that's how my guitars are supposed to sound. If not, then yes, it's probably the saffire.
Either way though I do think that my schecter is a really good guitar and I can get some great tones out of it.