Iced Earth's Framing Armageddon

[The Fiddler]

Fiddler, thanks a lot for the insight...it's nice to have an "insider" to talk to about this stuff You heard it over the phone, that's awesome So we can expect another very long epic album? Eeeexcellent

With help from PP's own "Purple Crayon Writer", I'm working on setting up a system to record our phone conversations and post them online at www.icedearth.com as podcasts or mp3 files. They should be pretty enjoyable as Jon can really talk at length (at ease) about anything in the world you want to talk about (except all his story details -- and even he'll admit that he doesn't have answers to all the questions that the storyline can conjure up for the interested listener. And that's part of the beauty of the whole concept - it leaves room for the listener to take the story wherever their imagination leads them).

 

[Iced Dog]

haha, that would be cool...Phone-time Musings By Jon Schaffer Any chance of instituting a forum on the site, or is Jon still adamant about not having one?

 

[Iced Ray]

This album plain out rules!

I dug it the first time I spun it but now after repeated listens, I can say this thing really is pretty amazing. It really needs to be appreciated as an entire listening experience.

Great job by Jon and Ripper!

 

[Burnett]

This album totally fucking rips. I think it's their best in a decade, though I must agree there are no true 'classics' like the Hunter on this one. However, between the excellent story, the sheer ball-breaking intensity and emotion of the tracks and the immense story make this album far greater than the sum of it's parts.

Also, the interlude use is excellent here - Execution going into Retribution is my personal highlight, absolutely brilliant.

Ripper =/= Barlow.

 

[Dark One]

Also, the interlude use is excellent here - Execution going into Retribution is my personal highlight, absolutely brilliant.

I'll go with "Reflections" into "Ten Thousand Strong" - it gives the latter an even greater roar of intensity.

Ripper =/= Barlow.

Range - Ripper > Barlow
Emotion - Barlow > Ripper
Showmanship - Ripper > Barlow
Uniqueness of voice - Barlow > Ripper
Passion - Barlow = Ripper
Overall Talent - Barlow = Ripper

Agreed with your sentiment.

Jason

 

[Palabra de Dios]

Give it the same amount of listens as SWTWC and only then can you make an accurate assessment.

This is going to be nearly impossible, as I have had SWTWC for a good long while now (isn't that disc almost 10 years old? Jesus!)...so maybe for people like me this is a bit overboard (Something Wicked... is my second favorite Iced Earth album, so I've listened to it many many times).

However, I've now given the album 3 run throughs: first, in the car to gain my first impressions, second, once again in my car to refamiliarize myself with the layout of the songs, and third with lyric sheet in hand and I have to say "Wow" to the album. It is indeed impressive. I am a sucker for a concept album, and Jon has fucking delivered. What a great concept, character, etc.

Ripper's voice is nearly unparalleled, I'm was a huge fan already, and this only solidified that. He's not at all Barlow, but he doesn't need to be, great job.

The riffs and guitar tone are Iced Earth and this is the mixed bag on the album. Like Zod said, Schaffer's albums have been produced by Morris for a while now, and maybe this is making the tone a bit stale. Those triplets, that same guitar sound, etc. etc...I'd like to see some evolution. I'd also like to hear more guitar solos (not of the wanky variety, but perhaps a few seconds here and there of some nice higher end lead melody). However, I think that that is my only real gripe with the album.

The songs are pretty killer...there are not as many neck-breaking goat-killing thrashers a la "Stormrider" or "Violate," but with each listen I enjoy this album more. It's so layered, complex, and awesome lyrically (for those who say lyrics are pointless, wake up).

There are some monstrous songs on this album, though. Since there are 19 tracks (and about 14 total songs), there are a lot to choose from (some might see this as a bad thing, but they all fit). I don't really have any standout favorites. I have some choruses that I like more than others (I'm a big fan of Charge to Keep because of its chorus), but overall the real tracks (not the interludes) are all pretty equal in my enjoyment.

The best thing about this album: not as many pointless ballads. I don't think enough people talk about the ballads Schaffer superimposes into each album. I like a good, well-placed ballad, but we don't need one or two every album, in my opinion. Ballads are good when they fit the flow, but sometimes Iced Earth's ballads seem to be forced and put in only because "oh shit, we need a ballad...lets' put it........HERE".

My overall assessment is that the album is great, one of the best I've heard this year. It's not without its flaws, that's why I didn't go all fanboy on this album, but it's a fucking killer release from a band that is, yes, very much alive and kicking. It's a great start to what I believe will be an awesome double album, and it does amazing justice to the Set Abominae story.

 

[Iced Dog]

Also, the interlude use is excellent here - Execution going into Retribution is my personal highlight, absolutely brilliant.

but Execution flows into Order Of The Rose

I agree with Dark One though, Reflections into Ten Thousand Strong is great

 

[Nognir616]

The album is freaking killer! Not that there's a single Iced Earth album that's not but anyways...
For the first time Schaffer does sound like a mature and experienced musician and composer, meaning that some enthusiasm is IMO lost but the majesty and epicness more than makes up for it.
Ripper has indeed found his place and performs at his 100%
And finally Iced Earth made an album that can distinguish them as a truly great band, if the albums before didn't acheive that...
Ten Thousand Strong Will Seize The Day!

 

[Kenso]

what about how this album stacks up to other 07 releases?

isolate, new religion, gothic kabbalah, paradise lost?

i think all 4 of those win over this album.

i still dont see how ten thousand strong is so great, its got a good chorus and then the rest is just typical metal... too many songs on this cd leave you just waiting for the chorus to come back, while the choruses are awesome as hell, i just find myself bored until it actually comes up.

ive listened to this cd a good 5 times already and im a huge iced earth and ripper fan, but geez how is this clicking for everyone else and not me? i know i like iced earth on similar level as most of the people on this thread.

 

[General Zod]

Range - Ripper > Barlow

I think people too often equate overall range with how high a singer can sing. While Tim can clearly go higher, Matt could go much lower. To me, Tim has his natural voice and his falsetto, and not a great deal of variety in between. Matt's voice offered the lows of tracks like "Reaping Stone", the highs that opened "Wolf", and everything in between. And to me, that equates to greater range.

Showmanship - Ripper > Barlow

I'm tempted to agree here. Tim has a quiet, controlled, almost sinister intensity, that comes through with a very commanding presence. Matt seemed like he required a deeper concentration to pull off what he did in studio.

Zod

 

[General Zod]

what about how this album stacks up to other 07 releases?

isolate, new religion, gothic kabbalah, paradise lost?

As it stands right now, only the new discs by Circus Maximus, Drudkh and Redemption have a chance of finishing in front of this.

Zod

 

[Dark One]

I think people too often equate overall range with how high a singer can sing. While Tim can clearly go higher, Matt could go much lower. To me, Tim has his natural voice and his falsetto, and not a great deal of variety in between. Matt's voice offered the lows of tracks like "Reaping Stone", the highs that opened "Wolf", and everything in between. And to me, that equates to greater range.

Just to clarify, by >, I definitely don't mean >>>>>>>

I almost equate them in all categories, but give slight nods here and there. My mind was made up on range when I heard Tim sing at Wacken. The range he showed during that show was absolutely spectacular. That said, I am indeed looking at his range within a certain octive level. His sound at the higher level simply amazes me more than Barlow at any level right now.

Based on what you mean by range (which is more appropriate I suppose), I agree with you about Barlow. From "top to bottom", octive wise, Barlow > Ripper.

I'm tempted to agree here. Tim has a quiet, controlled, almost sinister intensity, that comes through with a very commanding presence. Matt seemed like he required a deeper concentration to pull off what he did in studio.

I was in awe at Wacken. Hypnotized.

Jason

 

[guardian26]

I've listened to this once through so far and I'm kinda of blah about it. After reading Zod's (as usual) well thought out comments, I'm going to crank it up a few more times before I make any decision, but I do feel like this album is pretty light at this point.

 

[Dark One]

I've listened to this once through so far and I'm kinda of blah about it. After reading Zod's (as usual) well thought out comments, I'm going to crank it up a few more times before I make any decision, but I do feel like this album is pretty light at this point.

Given the initial reactions I've heard from a few people (and of course Zod in particular), your reaction is quite normal (I actually dug it more than most at first, but not nearly as much as I'm digging it now). This is as much of a "grower" type album as Iced Earth has ever released so absolutely continue to absorb with multiple listens before making a final judgment - and it appears you're right on track to do just that.

Jason

 

[SavaVIDude]

I'll go with "Reflections" into "Ten Thousand Strong" - it gives the latter an even greater roar of intensity.



Range - Ripper > Barlow
Emotion - Barlow > Ripper
Showmanship - Ripper > Barlow
Uniqueness of voice - Barlow > Ripper
Passion - Barlow = Ripper
Overall Talent - Barlow = Ripper

Agreed with your sentiment.

Jason

Good analysis. I've seen both singers live and I like Barlow's stage presence more than Tim's. Could Barlow's waist-length red hair have something to do with this?? Yup. Overall, I can't think of of better replacement for Barlow than Owens.

Chris

 

[TheLongshot]

what about how this album stacks up to other 07 releases?

isolate, new religion, gothic kabbalah, paradise lost?

i think all 4 of those win over this album.

I'm actually not that hot about Gothic Kabbalah. I think it is a step down from Therion's last couple of efforts.

I'm not sure where it places yet, since I've only listened to it once. I'll say more when it has had more time to sink in.

Jason

 

[Carl Hungus]

33 year old Iced Earth fan here.

I'm on my first time through the album, and it sounds pretty good so far. I can't really give a good opinion yet though before I've heard it many times.

I remember when I bought Devin Townsends Ocean Machine last year and I forced myself to listen to it many times wondering what was wrong with me since so many people say how great it is and I was just bored with it. Fast forward a few months and my random player played the album and I fell in love... it's wierd how albums can work like that.

Don't be too quick to judge guys. Usually the bands that sound great the first time you hear them grow stale the quickest! If I had rushed to judgement when I first heard the album Still Life I would never have gotten into Opeth (And now I've played them more than anything by far the past 2 years). I couldn't make sense of them the first time I heard them either (make that the first 10 times).

I had the best first impression of Dark Saga and Something Wicked the first time I heard those two albums but they didn't stick with me. I still love the trilogy on Something Wicked and A Question of Heaven is one of my favorite songs of all time, but other than that I don't really listen to those albums anymore.

Same deal for Glorious Burden. I still listen to the trilogy and I'm still amazed by it, but the rest of the album has grown old to me.

All of Burnt Offerings is still great to listen to any time, and so are the Stormrider songs especially the live ones on Alive in Athens.

Over all though, Iced Earth doesn't get the repeated listens like my other favorite bands: Opeth, Dream Theater, and Metallica's 2nd - 4th albums.

Back to this album: so far The Clouding grabs me the most, but time will tell.

 

[General Zod]

I've listened to this once through so far and I'm kinda of blah about it. After reading Zod's (as usual) well thought out comments, I'm going to crank it up a few more times before I make any decision, but I do feel like this album is pretty light at this point.

Thanks. Have you given it a shot with headphones and lyrics? It really helps open up the disc.

For anyone who would like to read the lyrics, they can be found here:

Framing Armageddon

Zod

 

[Carl Hungus]

Especially Grado headphones. Seriously. It's pure heaven listening to these cans. Ugliest headphones ever, but they more than make up for it in the sound quality. If you want to really hear the seperation of the instruments..... wow

Sorry if that sounds too much like a commercial!!

 

[TBJ]

33 year old Iced Earth fan here.


All of Burnt Offerings is still great to listen to any time, and so are the Stormrider songs especially the live ones on Alive in Athens.

I find it very interesting that a lot of people say this same thing about Burnt Offerings(I consider it my favorite Iced Earth album, and one of my favorite albums over all, metal or not), yet Jon Schaffer likes it the least. Weird..

As for Framing Armageddon, I find a lot of similarities to Something Wicked for obvious reasons, but also sound and attitude wise, which is good..

I will always be a Barlow fanboy, but Tim is starting to grow on me..and this is from someone who found Glorious Burden a burden to sit through(pardon the pun ;p).

I do find the lack of solos(or drum/bass "showmanship") unnerving since I feel some songs could have gone to that extra level of greatness if some great guitarist would have shredded or added licks here and there. Kinda like how Steve Di Giorgio added extra flourish to Dracula or Richard Christy added that great drum solo to Phantom Opera Ghost.

Overall, I still dont know how I feel about it, but its definetly an improvement over Glorious Burden and that nasty EP that came out afterwards.