I couldn't resist giving this an early listen. To me, some of their best work to date is on this album. That's not to say that I love the entire of album, but it's overall really good. Pretty much all heavy songs, but there are some surprises in there too. For instance, when the organ kicks in at around 4:40 in "When All Is Lost", for me there's a total prog vibe going on. Really reminded me of some Ayreon. I'll be very happy with this CD. I can't wait to own it! Also, I love the sound that Romeo is getting messing around with pitch shifter. That makes for some pretty comical licks =D.
Iconoclast spoiler thread
- Thread starter Liampie
- Start date
Phanto
Alalalalalalalala.
Yeah that's pretty nice. There are more cool parts in the album but they rarely last for more than 20 seconds.
man... the title track is just too godlike!
just realized the "hey!" part right before the solo section in bastards is very much similar if not the same sound they used in church of the machine right before the "the creator!!!" line. groovy
just realized the "hey!" part right before the solo section in bastards is very much similar if not the same sound they used in church of the machine right before the "the creator!!!" line. groovy
Iconoclast is a solid album, given that you have NOT heard Paradise Lost. Otherwise it is PL part II. Yes there are some novel moments on this album, but it is more or less sounding too much like Symphony X. Heretic= King of Terrors + 4 chord thing from Rediscovery Pt 2. Children of A Faceless God (after 18 seconds) = Serpent's Kiss. Etc...
As a previous user mentioned, SX is becoming the AC/DC of prog. The most "progressive" moment on this album was probably the Reign in Madness intro (first 17 seconds) where it sounded NOTHING like SX. However, even this intro caused some debate (see above).
Overall I will probably like and listen to half of the songs on this album years from now. So it is very similar to how I treat Paradise Lost nowadays...
As a previous user mentioned, SX is becoming the AC/DC of prog. The most "progressive" moment on this album was probably the Reign in Madness intro (first 17 seconds) where it sounded NOTHING like SX. However, even this intro caused some debate (see above).
Overall I will probably like and listen to half of the songs on this album years from now. So it is very similar to how I treat Paradise Lost nowadays...
I'm actually liking this cd a lot. Probably my second favorite Symphony X cd next to V, but it took 5 consecutive listens for me to decide that. 
Krowsnest
Guardian of the Blind
i feel if ya wanna hear some lighter, classical Symphony X then listen to TiO, if ya want a nice concept/ thematic album to go all the way through then play V, and if ya want some rockin SX then put on pretty much anything off Iconoclast.
Agreed. Different styles within the same band. There's something in every record they create that I can enjoy.
ive listened to the whole thing 3 times. for what it is, its a great album. its gonna take a while and multiple listens for it to all sink in. all symphony x albums are that way for me. i think most peoples complaints are just a result of expecting something completely different than what we got, but i honestly dont think its a bad album at all. its not perfect but nothing really is
azal
love is the answer
TDWOT, TIO and TO aren't lighter, they are just more varied. Of Sins, Eyes of Medusa, Dragon's Den, King of Terrors are just as heavy as anything on this album, the different is on the old albums there was tons more variety, 3/4 of the songs on this album are the same thing.
On TDWOT, it would open with a scorcher, then go neoclassical for a bit, then go epic, then return to the heaviness, then back to being more melodic, then the epic would start, and The Prophet Cries...would start and you would have another dose of really heavy stuff, then it would end with a great ballad.
That's the biggest difference between the SX of old musically, the variety within an album. And of course the lyrics and vocal melodies, which I really think they should go back to doing collaboratively, because Russ doesn't seem to be too critical of himself on this one. Anyone who says that the lyrics and vocal melodies on this are as good and well thought out as they were on older SX material is lying to themselves.
On TDWOT, it would open with a scorcher, then go neoclassical for a bit, then go epic, then return to the heaviness, then back to being more melodic, then the epic would start, and The Prophet Cries...would start and you would have another dose of really heavy stuff, then it would end with a great ballad.
That's the biggest difference between the SX of old musically, the variety within an album. And of course the lyrics and vocal melodies, which I really think they should go back to doing collaboratively, because Russ doesn't seem to be too critical of himself on this one. Anyone who says that the lyrics and vocal melodies on this are as good and well thought out as they were on older SX material is lying to themselves.
I love the new album, but the mixing just seems poorly done. PL had a way better sound quality. Although the album was better when I reduced the bass and added more treble. MJR's guitar doesn't become so dominant that way and I can hear the different instruments better.
First listen. I enjoyed it, as mentioned earlier it is lacking in variety but it seems they enjoy doing this these days. Thing is if you want to hear music like in their old albums, a simple solution is to listen to the older albums.
To call this album bad is worthy of a facepalm though, I would hate to see what that poster thinks of other bands then. Probably has an iTunes library with just 10 albums.
To call this album bad is worthy of a facepalm though, I would hate to see what that poster thinks of other bands then. Probably has an iTunes library with just 10 albums.
After reading this thread I couldn't help but go and at least listen to some tracks. I am one of the people who did not like PL too much and felt that even though it was decent, it was the worst SyX album to date. From what I have heard of Iconoclast so far it seems that it will stay that way for now. A large reason for this is that so far it seems the keys are a lot more prevalent on Iconoclast. Even thought there isn't a whole lot of unique key moments from what I have heard, I really like the atmospheric role they play, which reminds me a lot of V (my favorite SyX album).
I can still definitely understand where the "haters" are coming from too; however, I think their frustration has maybe made them hate the album more than they really do. I would agree that since Odyssey they have become a bit more forumulaic. I think a lot of it started with Odyssey when Romeo started making use of orchestral arrangements and choirs via computer programs. Ever since, he has been able to add bombastic arrangements into the music, and they have not been as creative with the actual music of the band. Instead they play heavy riffs over the arrangements and stick with this same "epic" formula. At this point I think they are scared of alienating all the newer fans who got into the band over the last couple albums. It was the last couple albums that gained them enough recognition that they could start to live off their music so I think they are scared to go too progressive again. Unlike PL, I did notice them trying to throw in some interesting things here and there, and I can at least sort of appreciate them giving a little effort in keeping some of their progressive roots.
All in all, I think the biggest flaw with Iconoclast is the variety. From the songs I heard it seems there is some variety; however, there are way too many heavier, more straightforward songs compared to the rest. SyX always had more straightforward metal songs even in the early albums, but those albums typically only had like 3 each.
Oh, and I think that when they made the song "All is Lost" they were like, "lol...this song is so brilliant! We should put this on the album as a slap in the face to remind our fans of how awesome we COULD be!". But seriously, from what I heard it was like that song came from a totally different album almost. It sounded like a mix of "Edge of Forever" and "Communion and the Oracle".
I can still definitely understand where the "haters" are coming from too; however, I think their frustration has maybe made them hate the album more than they really do. I would agree that since Odyssey they have become a bit more forumulaic. I think a lot of it started with Odyssey when Romeo started making use of orchestral arrangements and choirs via computer programs. Ever since, he has been able to add bombastic arrangements into the music, and they have not been as creative with the actual music of the band. Instead they play heavy riffs over the arrangements and stick with this same "epic" formula. At this point I think they are scared of alienating all the newer fans who got into the band over the last couple albums. It was the last couple albums that gained them enough recognition that they could start to live off their music so I think they are scared to go too progressive again. Unlike PL, I did notice them trying to throw in some interesting things here and there, and I can at least sort of appreciate them giving a little effort in keeping some of their progressive roots.
All in all, I think the biggest flaw with Iconoclast is the variety. From the songs I heard it seems there is some variety; however, there are way too many heavier, more straightforward songs compared to the rest. SyX always had more straightforward metal songs even in the early albums, but those albums typically only had like 3 each.
Oh, and I think that when they made the song "All is Lost" they were like, "lol...this song is so brilliant! We should put this on the album as a slap in the face to remind our fans of how awesome we COULD be!". But seriously, from what I heard it was like that song came from a totally different album almost. It sounded like a mix of "Edge of Forever" and "Communion and the Oracle".
Yeah... "when all seems to be lost, we still can make wonderful songs like this". This track should be about Symphony X themselves :Smug:
Nah, actually I'm enjoying the album (especially the title track) but I seriously miss some variery. Even though I consider Romeo the best riffing machine in metal nowadays, I'm getting sick of all this heavy guitar fest. And yes, I have to agree with those who think Allen has almost ruined the album with the cheesy lyrics and ever-agressive vocals.
Rather laughable reading all these negative comments here, people are judging a prog record based on just a few listens. Also, 90% of these people formed the negative opinions months before they even heard the first sample. How can you enjoy a record if you have already decided that it's bad?
It's indeed Opethish and one of the coolest moments of the whole album. Great interaction between guitars and piano.
Progbass
Member
As I have listened the title track and few other songs. I must say it sounds good but kinda forced. Feels like there is too much notes/passages happening but no real meaning. I doubt it will be up to par with PL for me, but of course I will decide that after I get the album and listen it many times
Good points symphonyXjapan and Thonolan. That's some reasonable critique.
But just saying it's a really bad album or "When All is Lost" is a plain bad song just because you didn't like some line in the lyrics is just retarded imo. I guess there will always be those kinds of comments. Even if the band makes an album full of only "Accolades" and "Communion in the Oracles", I'm pretty sure there would be some who will call it cheesy, dull, or whatever. I say the band should say fuck it and do whatever they really feel like doing as artists. Just look at Devin Townsend. The guy releases whatever the hell he feels like releasing, even if it's a an album of Ambient Music (a type of music I'm sure very few metal fans are into).
I truly hope the comments about them trying to please the new wider fanbase are false.
But just saying it's a really bad album or "When All is Lost" is a plain bad song just because you didn't like some line in the lyrics is just retarded imo. I guess there will always be those kinds of comments. Even if the band makes an album full of only "Accolades" and "Communion in the Oracles", I'm pretty sure there would be some who will call it cheesy, dull, or whatever. I say the band should say fuck it and do whatever they really feel like doing as artists. Just look at Devin Townsend. The guy releases whatever the hell he feels like releasing, even if it's a an album of Ambient Music (a type of music I'm sure very few metal fans are into).
I truly hope the comments about them trying to please the new wider fanbase are false.
I don't see why they would, after all what they've said in interviews. As far as their comments about pleasing a fanbase go, they've said that the new album should be quite pleasant actually for the older fans as they've gone a bit back to their roots. It shows, new thing is the more straightforward (in SX scale) mid-tempo songs like End of Innocence, but songs like Heretic, Iconoclast, Reign In Madness and When All Is Lost, could very well be from Odyssey or V, and I like it. Next album could, and will very likely be very different again from this one.
I'll still need quite a few listens to form a better opinion of the album, and I will most certainly comment on it later in more depth. Expecting to see a barrage of naysayers turning their coats later on if they didn't slit their wrists already.
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