Impulses = Cheating? + other random thoughts

[Where She Wept]

So i finally sat down and started to play with some of the impulses people have been kind enough to post in this forum. And tonight i got one of the best tones for myself so far. It bugs me because i want to capture the sounds of the bands i record. Which brings up another point, everyone i've recorded so far has shit tone and the drummers don't understand the concept of drum heads being replaceable. So if i make the drummers use my set, (which i've spent alot of time making sound like GOD), and record all the guitars direct and use reamping and(or) Impulses to make them sound good. I end up just making them sound the way "I" want but don't capture "their" Sound.

Am i over-thinking it all?

 

[A Toolish Circle]

yea ,i think u're overthinking it all . most starting bands don't have good gear so capturing their sound might not be the best sound u can get. besides a lot of tone is in the fingers and also in the guitar so even if u use the same amp they won't really sound the same.

so far none of the bands ( about 20 all up ) i've worked with have insisted on using their own gear when i have offered a better amp or alternative

 

[Where She Wept]

Cool, I'm just feeling some pressure. So many people around me are doing the same small studio thing (and i'm still working out of my house). and i want to be really good, to set myself apart from all the other guys.

 

[xmarcelx]

Using Impulses and your drumset is a bit like playing over someone else backline live...

 

[smy1]

Using Impulses and your drumset is a bit like playing over someone else backline live...

... which will still sound shitty if you can't play and will sound good if you CAN play ...

 

[unsilpauly]

.

so far none of the bands ( about 20 all up ) i've worked with have insisted on using their own gear when i have offered a better amp or alternative

same here. most guys just want the recording to sound the best it can. i also want it to sound the best it can. i am of the opinion that we use whatever is the best sounding gear for what is tryin to be achieved at the time. most bands are pretty quick to tell other bands and people who and where they made their cd, so i definetley want it to sound good. at the end of the project, if it sounds way better than they are(remember a huge percentage of local bands are really bad) im usually fairly happy.

 

[MKS]

You know what cheating is? It's what I did this weekend. I was having a difficult time playing drum tracks for one song in particular. I broke the scratch/click tracks into sections and recorded all sections separately.

Then pieced them all together the next day. I had no idea it would be so freaking easy. You can't tell it was recorded in sections. I know this is nothing new but I've never done it before. I felt so ashamed but fuck it, the drums track are done.

 

[sparkyness]

"comping" is a skill itself and has been around forever and used by everyone. If I had a dollar for every drum track that has been built by nicking bits from multiple takes I'd be able to afford a country mansion like Andy's

 

[Exocaster]

yea ,i think u're overthinking it all . most starting bands don't have good gear so capturing their sound might not be the best sound u can get. besides a lot of tone is in the fingers and also in the guitar so even if u use the same amp they won't really sound the same.

so far none of the bands ( about 20 all up ) i've worked with have insisted on using their own gear when i have offered a better amp or alternative

When I've worked with younger or less accomplished players, they seem to have a tendancy to turn down good gear in favor of what they're more familiar/comfortable with. It's pretty much the opposite of what I'd expect; you'd think they'd be enamored of playing through decent stuff even if it's not "their sound", but they're the ones who are most insistent on ignoring the engineer's advice and doing it their way.

I've set up gear, dialed in tones and jammed out some riffs to demonstrate the sounds amps are capable of, got the "Woah! That sounds so much heavier that way!" response, shortly followed by "...but I'm more comfortable with my sound, so I'll just use my stuff" at which point they run their Metal Zone into the clean channel with the gain on the pedal dimed and the mids removed entirely. I've had nice Marshall and Mesa stuff turned down in favor of Crate, Behringer, "Metal" pedals, digital multieffect pedal boards, etc.

For the most part, guys who have any sort of experience at all, even if they've never been in a studio before, are at least willing to give things a shot.

 

[A Toolish Circle]

^
There's a few tactics i use in such dire circumstances :

1. I let them know that the tone they have isn't much useable when i mix it with everything ( esp when u spot them using metalzones * shudders * ). Getting them to use different amps is much easier than guitars.

2. Let them know if that's what they want to use u will not be respondsible of what the final product might sound like : this usually causes them to doubt their "own sound" that they're comfortable with.

3.U need to know what kind of bands they like , or what kind of sound they're going for and use that to enforce the fact that they won't be getting that kind of sound with the gear that they have.

I usually never have to sort to such tactics only because if i produce the bands , i usually take em out on dinner or at a pub to discuss what their goals are , what kind of sound they're going for and what kind of gear they have and will let them know if it's anything useable . If it's not , i usually get gear hire for them and give them the hint that their amps will not be needed in the studio.not having their amps at the studio separates them from their comfort zone mentality.

also , knowing the group dynamics and the roles they play in the band ( e.g alpha male ) plays a lot in knowing how to convince band members into taking ur way with things.It's good to know and identify early on the type of people u're dealing with and knowing how to deal with them.I suggest reading a book called " the art of music production by Richard James Burgess " and most general sociology books.

 

[006]

werwerwerewr

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Which brings up another point, everyone i've recorded so far has shit tone and the drummers don't understand the concept of drum heads being replaceable.

Hell, I'll settle for a drummer that can understand the concept of "counting to four."

 

[Phase]

You know what cheating is? It's what I did this weekend. I was having a difficult time playing drum tracks for one song in particular. I broke the scratch/click tracks into sections and recorded all sections separately.

Then pieced them all together the next day. I had no idea it would be so freaking easy. You can't tell it was recorded in sections. I know this is nothing new but I've never done it before. I felt so ashamed but fuck it, the drums track are done.

Thats not cheating...its recording. Its so common that when our heroes record things in one take they proclaim it from the rooftops. Its always been that way but more so today because Modern recordings are more polished.

Its not as much about lack of skill than about capturing the best performance possible in the time given. In regards to parts that are bit difficult it is because the part is new. Players are usually at their best at a song many months after it is recorded. Punch -ins are required and are part of making records.

Cheating is someone speeding up their licks and doing things that build a false virtuoso

 

[Where She Wept]

Hell, I'll settle for a drummer that can understand the concept of "counting to four."

Punk drummers can count to four, oh wait that's the singer, nevermind