IN FLAMES Clayman Re-recorded 2020

Poor Bjorn. I remember that he brought his death metal ideas to Anders, who basically threw them in the trash and said "NO, I WANT TO SING" and Bjorn trudged away like ":( it's okay, they'll sound better that way... they really will..."
 
Ohhh okay yeah I remember now, I remember a large portion of the Battles feed (now that was a long tjme ago wasn't it) we spent talking about SC.

I can see that to be fair, you on one hand have songs like EG, WTWE, MITB, the chase, become the sky that are musically, fairly standard as to what you'd expect from modern in flames and all varying degrees of decent (I personally lump Paralyzed and In Plain view in here, IPV terrible chorus aside) but the other songs were definitely VERY left field. I still personally like Through oblivion and WEWO, but then you have songs like the title track and filtered truth which both feel like half finished ideas.

I have always been one to stand up for SC tho.
 
Interesting interview there de4life. It's quite vague answers though some of them, the one about other members wanting talking about him about producing another album, doesn't really specify if we're talking 2008 or 2018...I think I remember reading an interview there were talks about it with STYE or something. I really doubt it's recently. Fredrik seems to be someone who just says it like it is, I think he would've said that Björn talked to him if that were the case considering he said he haven't talked to Anders. Björn & Anders seems to be pretty much on the same page I think. I wouldn't mind it myself, but at this point I don't think it would magically change their songwriting if they did an album with Fredrik again. Production would probably be miles better, but I would never expect another Colony or Clayman.
I remember an interview, some years ago, when one of them said that working with Nordstrom was like working in an office.

I guess that meant that he out them to work hard. Even if they won't go back this could probably mean better structured songs.
 
I used to absolutely despise SC, but over time my hatred of it has lessened somewhat. There is still a lot of stuff on the record I think sucks, and the production across the board is quite amateurish... however, there is some good stuff on there. Unfortunately it's generally the non-metal songs which sound the most inspired and interesting.

In Plain View sounded OK when it first came out, but I find it very boring nowadays. Also I don't feel like the vocals and the instruments mix together very well on this one at all.

Everything's Gone just sucks. Honestly if this was one of Bjorn's ideas then maybe Anders was right to throw the rest of them out.

Paralyzed is another that was tolerable when the album first came out, but I don't think it's aged very well. Again, quite boring, and the song never really gets going. It's a mid-tempo snoozefest.

Through Oblivion was almost universally panned when released, but truth be told it stands up now as one of the better, more authentic songs on the record. Anders vocals sound good on this one, and the song has a nice flow. It's not a metal song in any way but as an experimental track it's fine. I somewhat like it nowadays.

With Eyes Wide Open is a guilty pleasure of mine. I like the way the song flows, I like how the guitar sounds and I think Anders' clean vocals fit into this one very well.

Siren Charms is back to the mid-tempo nothingness of IPV and Paralyzed. It's not terrible but it isn't great either, and the production & song structuring is strange to say the least. Much like with IPV the vocals clash with the instruments in an unpleasant way.

When The World Explodes is another song where the structure is a bit fucked up, Anders' vocals struggle to fit in with the instruments and the transition between the gothic-tinged chorus and the standard heavy metal verses is handled poorly. It's like the verses are one song, and the chorus is from a totally different song and they've just been spliced together. This song definitely had potential but wasn't structured well.

Rusted Nail has a nice chorus but the production on this one is truly awful and it sounds terrible. Parts of the song seem to have been stitched together in a haphazard and unprofessional way. This is another one that could have been good, but the band screwed it up somehow.

Dead Eyes was one I initially hated but have grown to enjoy over the years. Similar to WEWO I like the slow pace and the vocals mesh nicely with the music. These slower, ballad-type tracks are the best SC has to offer. They aren't anything special but within the context of the album they really aren't so bad, and production wise are the songs best suited to the album's atmosphere.

Monsters in the Ballroom has some good riffs but I hate the vocals. I've never liked this one.

Filtered Truth sounds like HIM mixed with metalcore. This was one of the more popular tracks when SC came out but again, I never liked it and I still don't.

The Chase & Become the Sky are both good and should have been on the main album imo. Although Become the Sky sounds more like something that should have been on Battles as opposed to SC as it doesn't really fit the mood of the album.
 
@Jester Slave you might like this live performance, if you haven't seen it before. A lot of SC songs in the setlist. In Plain View, Everything's Gone, With Eyes Wide Open, Paralyzed, Through Oblivion and Rusted Nail.

 
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When it first came out I was mainly confused by it but liked it, then went through a phase of really not liking it, but over the last like2 years It's really grown on me again

In Plain View - A solid opening track. instrumentally I really like what they did with the intro and the verses here, and I like Anders' verse melodies, but he sounds a bit strained. The less said about the chorus the better. The bridge is basic but does it's job.

Everything's Gone - It's.... okay. On certain days i'll really like it but on others it's just boring. The production doesn't help as the guitars get muddy at times and the Vocal reverb in the chorus is puzzling. Good song live though, I'll give it that, it's always surprised me when i've seen it.

Paralyzed - I've always been a sucker for this song and it's groove. I don't worship it like I used to, but I can't fault it in any way really, I enjoy it for what it is. Production fits the sound of this one well to be fair (drum sound aside, that's poor throughout the album)

Through Oblivion - I remember hearing this for the first time as a single and going wtf is this.... but soon after it grew on me and was an early favorite of mine. No change now, I still think for what it is it's very well executed, Anders sounds great, and the guitar melody behind the second chorus and bridge is great, and fits perfectly behind the vocal lines.

With Eyes Wide Open - Oh boy I hated this one at first, but again, over the last few years it's grown on me, as again, for what it is, it's well executed, Anders sounds strong and the lyrics are surprisingly not-terrible compared to some of the other songs hes written in recent years

Siren Charms - I like the clean guitar riff in the intro but the song feels painfully underdeveloped and Anders doesn't sound great here. Song should have been worked on for longer and dare I say it, have been a longer, TCP/Wallflower type song and could have been interesting.

When The World Explodes - I don't even have much to day about this one. Not great, not bad in the same way EG is. I'm fine with the female sung chorus, but the 2 minute electronic outro is unneccesary. Guitr tone really doesn't fit the vibe of this song well as it works better with slower, clearer melodies.

Rusted Nail - Intro? Awesome. Verse? not awesome. Pre-chorus? In the wrong song. Chorus? Awesome. Solo? Wah.

Dead Eyes - Intro riff is great, but the song is just a longer, slower, worse WEWO. Bridge and electronic solo/melody is interesting though.

Monsters In The Ballroom - Lyrically cheesy and Anders' vocal performance is very hit and miss but the riffs are really nice on this one. Was one of my early favorites but is now just another soso song. However, I never thought I'd see it live bt they played it when I saw them last year, so i'm happy about that. (I was lucky enough to see them play Dead Alone in 2017!!! still proud of that)

Filtered Truth - I remember Anders saying they had trouble with arrangements on this one and you can tell. Anders' vocal performance is strong, and the main guitar melody, when it is used, is really good. Surprisingly decent solo on this one, but the song doesn't capitalise on it's somewhat old school main guitar melody and is too focussed around its (and i paraphrase Anders here) ACDC tribute vibe

The Chase - I really like this one, the chorus is great with some interesting guitar melodies behind the vocals, and I love the intro that fades out to the Piano. The traditional piano is very underused by In Flames and so it really works well here.

Become The Sky - Okay, the main riff of this just rules. It just does. Another fairly srong vocal performance from Anders in comparison to some of the albums songs, and same goes for Bjorns solo. Solid if unspectacular song that should have made the album IMO.
 
@Jester Slave you might like this live performance, if you haven't seen it before. A lot of SC songs in the setlist. In Plain View, Everything's Gone, With Eyes Wide Open, Paralyzed, Through Oblivion and Rusted Nail.



My first In Flames show was on this tour in London, was great, and to be fair Rusted Nail aside the Siren Charms songs worked live. Also, Wovenwar and While She Sleeps were the supports so it was an all aroud great show, especially as it's how I came across sleeps, who are now my other favorite band XD
 
As with most of the IF songs, a lot of the Siren Charms songs come off better/heavier live than on the CD. In Plain View for example is 100x better live than it is on CD.

As much as I have ripped on Siren Charms in the past, the fact is we still talk about and discuss it. The album is unique and is worth discussing regardless of how you view the content.

Compare to Battles, which is just so hollow. We rarely talk about Battles other than to mention how shit the production is. It's almost like it never existed, it's so bland and forgettable. Before I Fall came on the other day and I couldn't believe how incredibly weak it sounded. It was one of the few songs I somewhat liked off Battles, but my god the production on Battles is utterly anaemic. There's no power whatsoever. Everything sounds so thin. It might be the worst album in their discography to be honest - I would at this point probably put Siren Charms above it.
 
Dead Eyes - Intro riff is great, but the song is just a longer, slower, worse WEWO. Bridge and electronic solo/melody is interesting though

The bridge and solo are the major redeeming factors in Dead Eyes for me. Starting with "I will be reborn...", moving onto what is easily the best solo on the album which for once sounds like it's been designed for the song rather than Bjorn Generic Solo #76, then breaking down to the electronics and back into the pre-chorus/chorus. It's a lovely sequence which proves the band weren't totally devoid of songwriting ability on this album. They were just very select about when they chose to use it.
 
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As with most of the IF songs, a lot of the Siren Charms songs come off better/heavier live than on the CD. In Plain View for example is 100x better live than it is on CD.

As much as I have ripped on Siren Charms in the past, the fact is we still talk about and discuss it. The album is unique and is worth discussing regardless of how you view the content.

Compare to Battles, which is just so hollow. We rarely talk about Battles other than to mention how shit the production is. It's almost like it never existed, it's so bland and forgettable. Before I Fall came on the other day and I couldn't believe how incredibly weak it sounded. It was one of the few songs I somewhat liked off Battles, but my god the production on Battles is utterly anaemic. There's no power whatsoever. Everything sounds so thin. It might be the worst album in their discography to be honest - I would at this point probably put Siren Charms above it.


I put siren charms well above battles for sure. Battles is so incredibly dull and poor. The only songs I listen to from it are Before I Fall and Here Until Forever. The End is okay but I rarely listen to it unless I'm playing it on the guitar, because it's got one ot two fun riffs to play (namely the bit after the first chorus) live, I have to say that Drained, The Truth, Here Until Forever and The End are passable but nothing great. Before I Fall and Save Me were unironically good live but save me is so shit on the album.

The production sucks, the songwriting is lazy, Wallflower has potential but doesn't go anywhere, and most of the damn songs are just forgettable! Honestly it's very poor and I'm so glad ITM was an improvement.

When i talk about songs being good or bad live by the way I mean by the fact I saw them live in person, not judged through an online video of it as a lot of YouTube commenter do. I'm convinced a lot of people have never been to a live show but are convinced In Flames suck live because of online footage.
 
I was actually quite disappointed with how The End sounded live - weirdly I felt it sounded better on CD, which is rare for new IF songs. They almost always sound heavier & better live, even if Anders' vocals are shit.
 
I was actually quite disappointed with how The End sounded live - weirdly I felt it sounded better on CD, which is rare for new IF songs. They almost always sound heavier & better live, even if Anders' vocals are shit.

Yeah for sure, The End is one of the weaker songs live I've found, especially as twice I've seen them close with it. I get why they close with it, but c'mon. Take this life and My Sweet Shadow both do the job so much better. Seeing My sweet shadow in the middle of the set last year, and seeing Take This Life as the 3rd song of a set in 2017 are the 2 most baffling things I've seen live. Closing with them is so much stronger.
 
I don't listen to SC. I don't like SC. But I find it tolerable. It is a bad IF album. Battles gets on my nerves.
 
The band often make baffling setlist choices to be fair. When I went to see them a decade ago they opened with the full 8+ minute rendition of The Chosen Pessimist. Whether you like this song or not, it's a REALLY shit and unenergetic way to start a fucking metal gig.

Even though they did play it again when I saw them last year, this time it was in the middle of the set, shorter and tweaked for live performance - much better as a result.
 
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I don't listen to SC. I don't like SC. But I find it tolerable. It is a bad IF album. Battles gets on my nerves.

Yeah, I don't purposefully listen to SC but I can tolerate and appreciate some of the stuff on the album even if I don't really like it as a whole. Battles however is just... nothing. It has no value, no redeeming factors, no real purpose. The End is probably the only decent thing about that entire album, and even that is cookie-cutter.
 
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Yeah, I don't purposefully listen to SC but I can tolerate and appreciate some of the stuff on the album even if I don't really like it as a whole. Battles however is just... nothing. It has no value, no redeeming factors, no real purpose. The End is probably the only decent thing about that entire album, and even that is cookie-cutter.

Remember how the first teaser we got for the album was the intro and first verse of The End followed by the chorus of The Truth? They well and truly baited us with the first half into thinking we were getting an album different to what we got, and the second half was just the tip of the sour iceberg
 
Yeah, I don't purposefully listen to SC but I can tolerate and appreciate some of the stuff on the album even if I don't really like it as a whole. Battles however is just... nothing. It has no value, no redeeming factors, no real purpose. The End is probably the only decent thing about that entire album, and even that is cookie-cutter.
My problem with SC is that, there could actually be like four songs that I would like, but, sometimes, the bad songwritting, sometimes bad decisions and many times the awfull production are keeping me away from them.

For example. Rusted Nails, I could like it but has some serious issues. Filtered Truth needs developement. Dead Eyes comes nice until they come with those awful synths where there should be a guitar solo. I like the chase but I cannot find a place to put that song in my IF playlist due to the sound.
 
Remember how the first teaser we got for the album was the intro and first verse of The End followed by the chorus of The Truth? They well and truly baited us with the first half into thinking we were getting an album different to what we got, and the second half was just the tip of the sour iceberg

Yes. Battles is definitely, so far, that awful album that all bands release during their careers. But, I don't think that they share that opinion.
 
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Remember how the first teaser we got for the album was the intro and first verse of The End followed by the chorus of The Truth? They well and truly baited us with the first half into thinking we were getting an album different to what we got, and the second half was just the tip of the sour iceberg

Oh yeah, I remember it very well. I was pretty pumped when The End came out, thinking we were going to be getting something much closer to SOAPF. Then The Truth came out and I was pretty pissed off but figured maybe it was just a one off, weird experimental track. Then Through My Eyes and Save Me leaked and I knew for sure the album was going to be shit. Fortunately Letters to Myself came out at roughly the same time and was pretty good, so I could put the disappointment of Battles behind me fairly quickly. Ironically two years later the opposite happened, when I, the Mask turned out to be pretty good and No Halos in Hell was a massive disappointment.
 
SC is a weird album.

On positive side there is experimentation and some nice musical ideas scattered around.

Unfortunately, everything else is lacking. Production is all over the place, band has no direction or some general idea, there is not a single good song on the album from start to finish, a lot of filler riffs and solos, almost everything is slow or mid-tempo, there are some shockingly bad moments when it comes to patching the parts of the song together or matching vocal melodies to music.

I guess it could have been a good demo of something.

After SOAPF I expected great things. Maybe a more compact, heavier album next. But nope... Fuck you fans, we're going full retard.

And that is the thing that bothers me a lot with IF. You can hear natural progression from LS to Clayman. Some would argue that even RTR makes some sense. But right about that time and Anders going all diva and shit... IF started making random albums trying to be trendy or whatever.

Take SOAPF, SC and Battles. Like the albums were released by 3 different bands.

Take Whoracle, Colony, Clayman. Instantly recognizable sound, obvious progression, but each has its own vibe.