IN FLAMES Clayman Re-recorded 2020

[DE4life]

My problem with SC is that, there could actually be like four songs that I would like, but, sometimes, the bad songwritting, sometimes bad decisions and many times the awfull production are keeping me away from them.

For example. Rusted Nails, I could like it but has some serious issues. Filtered Truth needs developement. Dead Eyes comes nice until they come with those awful synths where there should be a guitar solo. I like the chase but I cannot find a place to put that song in my IF playlist due to the sound.

Probably the only two SC songs I can listen to in full without feeling like they fucked up somewhere are WEWO and Through Oblivion - but neither of them are really metal songs. WEWO possibly at a push, but Through Oblivion is full on electro-pop - and it's fine as a song for that genre, but it isn't what I want or expect out of In Flames. Regardless they are the only two songs on SC that I feel flow well from start to finish and aren't hampered by the production. Everything else has problems.

Rusted Nail has all the ingredients for a decent modern IF track, including dat catchy chorus, but somehow they really fucked up the composition and the production just buries it beyond redemption. It's a shame.

 

[TheJestersDoor]

Yes. Battles is definitely, so far, that awful album that all bands release during their careers. But, I don't think that they share that opinion.

Incorrect, even they admitted they weren't happy with the sound and that's why they made the guitars more prominent on ITM. anders exact words about battles are "it's as good as it can be" so take that how you will but to me that doesn't read as one of his favorites

 

[eochaid]

So maybe they were aware of the reception o the album.

 

[TheJestersDoor]

Yeah for sure, like I'm not saying they dislike it, but I think they definitely made a conscious decison not to pursue the "sound" of that album further.

Battles for me is a strange one as its got the biggest divide I've seen between fans and haters, like in retrospect SOAPF gets the love it deserves, SC has a fair bit of revisionist acceptance, ITM is universally complimented as a "return to form" in parts, but battles well and truly is marmite with people.

 

[DE4life]

And that is the thing that bothers me a lot with IF. You can hear natural progression from LS to Clayman. Some would argue that even RTR makes some sense. But right about that time and Anders going all diva and shit... IF started making random albums trying to be trendy or whatever.

Take SOAPF, SC and Battles. Like the albums were released by 3 different bands.

Take Whoracle, Colony, Clayman. Instantly recognizable sound, obvious progression, but each has its own vibe.

Yeah, that is one of my problems with the band as well. It's so difficult to have any faith in what is coming next because they are so fucking erratic. Reroute was just about acceptable despite the bad production, but then it goes seriously off the rails from STYE onwards with music styles, production, vocals, guitar tone... every album is something totally different. Sometimes good and sometimes really bad. I like variety in my music but I also like some consistency. How the fuck would you define In Flames to somebody if you're talking about the last ten years of their output? You'd have to specify an album as it is impossible to define any kind of consistent evolution to their sound in terms of genre or production. It is all over the place.

So maybe they were aware of the reception o the album.

I think they know with both SC & Battles that these were not well received albums. I can remember Anders and Bjorn being a bit offended and upset by the negative response to Siren Charms. I think they understand that Battles was a poor effort. I really hope they take the positive feedback for I, the Mask and use it as a foundation moving forward. However I can't say I expect them to do so. I believe there is just as big of a chance that the next album will be another dud as there is of it being a solid continuation of the ITM formula.

 

[eochaid]

Because battles is a whatever album by a whatever band. There is not a soul there that you can identify with any of the band members.

 

[eochaid]

How the fuck would you define In Flames to somebody if you're talking about the last ten years of their output?

That's what amazes me when someone talks about the IF sound. There is not such thing. There have been some common bits that were lost after Jesper's departure. But there is little in common in their releases since reroute came to life.

 

[TheJestersDoor]

Yeah Siren Charms they were definitely stung by the response to that one and I have some sympathy with them, but I also understand why it was panned and it does have it's problems. That being said it fits under the In Flames umbrella for me so I'll defend it with my life. Battles however is irredeemable, totally void of any distinguishing features. Honestly if it wasn't for Bjorn's WAH and the fact we all know it's Anders' vocals, it could be literally any generic American rock band's album.

 

[DE4life]

That's what amazes me when someone talks about the IF sound. There is not such thing. There have been some common bits that were lost after Jesper's departure. But there is little in common in their releases since reroute came to life.

When people talk about the "IF sound" what they are really talking about is the 1996-2000 period, because that is the sound they are really famous for. Dual guitar harmonies, screaming vocals, MDM perfection. That is "the In Flames sound". Everything that has come afterwards is the band copying other genres and bands, whether it be American alt-metal, metalcore, AOR... none of it is their sound, it's them copying other popular musical genres. Yes they put their own spin on it but you can't define it as "the IF sound". When anyone mentions that they are talking about TJR-Whoracle-Colony-Clayman era.

Yeah Siren Charms they were definitely stung by the response to that one and I have some sympathy with them, but I also understand why it was panned and it does have it's problems. That being said it fits under the In Flames umbrella for me so I'll defend it with my life. Battles however is irredeemable, totally void of any distinguishing features. Honestly if it wasn't for Bjorn's WAH and the fact we all know it's Anders' vocals, it could be literally any generic American rock band's album.

I've always felt the same way about STYE. Take the vocals out and, at the time, would anyone have guessed this was In Flames? No dual guitar harmonies, no solos, flat, lifeless production, terrible drum sound... Anders' vocals are the only thing that defines that album as "In Flames" - and it's not like I hate STYE, but I do think it's where the band departed 100% from their own sound and morphed from leaders into followers.

 

[Man Made Bod]

New Clayman recording sucks. A disgrace to the original.

 

[ThePhobiac]

Siren Charms will be considered a classic 4,000 years from now.

Not a fan of Battles. As I have said repeatedly.

I listened to the new take on Clayman. It sounds good to me. You know what's great about this? You can actually HEAR the bass guitar. Peter got shafted when he was in the band. You could almost never hear him. (Johan not so much -- you could hear some of his work in parts of Whoracle at least)

I'm interested to hear the new take on Pinball Map.

What?!?! That record's production could be labeled as "any poor, up and coming, underground metal band's sound". Does it even have production?

What I like about TJR is that the guitars have crunch but aren't too loud in the mix (Whoracle, STYE), a clear and crisp drum sound (ASOP onwards this has been a big problem), a fantastic lead guitar sound, and excellent clean guitar tones. It's the best-balanced IF album in terms of production, I think. The only thing that sucks is that the bass, like most IF albums, is buried in the mix.

 

[A88]

Back to Clayman 2020 - If there was a point in this song where you need to crank up the guitars,it is that riff after 2 minute mark and again after solo. And it is barely fucking audible. All you can hear is click-click-click drums (wtf is this, some free e-drummer software?) and some vague guitar sound from the background.

Verses feel totally different as well. Not just because Anders fucks up some of the vocal lines, but because you can't hear the chord progression beneath building up tension.

And finally solo. Ok, we knew it will be shit. But this has to be a new low for Bjorn. At one point he goes out of, well everything, with his bends and/or wah. This is as basic as it gets, you can't do that. Especially if you harmonize.

 

[DE4life]

Reminds me a bit of when the solo comes in on Rusted Fail, but somehow even worse than that abomination.

 

[TheJestersDoor]

Reminds me a bit of when the solo comes in on Rusted Fail, but somehow even worse than that abomination.

Only solo that's worse than Rusted Nail is the one in Through My Eyes. That track is badly mixed even by Battles standards, and the solo is not only complete shit, but twice as loud as anything else

 

[DE4life]

Only solo that's worse than Rusted Nail is the one in Through My Eyes. That track is badly mixed even by Battles standards, and the solo is not only complete shit, but twice as loud as anything else

I had forgotten about that one but yeah you're right, that one is even worse and much like in the Clayman rerecording it sounds like it is spliced in from a different song without the volume adjusted.

 

[A88]

Ah, Rusted Fail. The one time Anders really manages to get DAT CHORUS right, they fail at everything else in the song.

 

[eochaid]

When you talk about the solo are you talking about the intro solo? Because that' one is awful.

 

[DE4life]

Ah, Rusted Fail. The one time Anders really manages to get DAT CHORUS right, they fail at everything else in the song.

I was listening to it just a minute ago to remind myself how bad the solo is (and it really is bad... the wah pedal abuse is off the fucking scale) and there are actually some really nice guitar melodies near the end of the song around the 4 minute mark. Unfortunately they are so incredibly low in the mix that you can barely hear them. It's so stupid.

When you talk about the solo are you talking about the intro solo? Because that' one is awful.

No, the solo starting at around 03:12. Basically a tutorial of how not to use the wah pedal. The opening solo is almost as bad, though.

 

[eochaid]

The opening solo is so forced and over the top that it almost makes me skip the full song.

 

[DE4life]

Okay, so, I'm kind of surprised, but I was listening to Clayman being played live in 2000:



And for the "So afraid..." verse they actually kill the guitars here, too. I had either forgotten or not noticed that they have been playing it live this way pretty much since the album was released. So, in that sense, the rerecording is actually more faithful to the live performance of the song. You learn something new every day, I guess.