IN FLAMES Clayman Re-recorded 2020

[krofius]

Eh, I don't mind them having fun and doing a re-recording of just 1 song for a 20th anniversary, I don't get what the big deal is. I'm more surprised that they actually did it since they've always been very reluctant doing these anniversary things and looking back to their history.

 

[galvanized]

Clayman Pt II

20 years since its release. Time for a reprise.

Called it guys.

 

[ciko_gfb]

I'm more surprised that they actually did it since they've always been very reluctant doing these anniversary things and looking back to their history.

Yeah totally.

I don't think its gonna be big thing though, I think its gonna be re-release of Clayman with the new version of title track as bonus.

 

[galvanized]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CA5f20THn9z/

The problem is the remake clip doesn’t really sound better. Or even that different.

Recording sounds kind of like A Sense of Purpose actually.

 

[A88]

In cash we trust.

Well not a big deal, but I am against it for several reasons:

1) it will not sound better or different
2) they are doing it without 3/5 original band members and main songwriter
3) they've been shitting on that era for ages

Btw, is Niklas still a band member?

 

[drawntoblack]

Why does it sound like a cca 2009 youtube cover on a then-state of the art Schecter guitar and a Line 6 Spider amp?

How do you manage to re-record a song 20 years later and make it sound worse?

 

[TheJestersDoor]

In cash we trust.

Well not a big deal, but I am against it for several reasons:

1) it will not sound better or different
2) they are doing it without 3/5 original band members and main songwriter
3) they've been shitting on that era for ages

Btw, is Niklas still a band member?

1- Of course it won't be better, they aren't kidding anyone if they think it is, I'm sure even they know it won't be better! And if it was different, people would complain that they changed it too much so that's a catch 22

2- Correct, but a lot of bands change members but ultimately whether people like it or not it's still the same name above the door. They are still perfectly entitled to want to release something like this

3- They've played a fair variety clayman songs live in recent years especially at Borgholm, their own festival, where they are under no pressure to promote a specific album. I've never seen an interview where Anders or Bjorn outright bash Clayman, they have always just said they don't consider it worth spending too much time fixed on the past. If you can find me evidence of this I will accept your point at least partially.

As for Nicolas unfortunately I think so, he has a new band he's been pursuing since 2018 and he is perfectly within his right to want to do so.

I'm just playing devil's advocate with you, no hard feelings meant dude

 

[TheJestersDoor]

On a similar and related note, Anders can't hate Clayman too much based off of how he introduced Pinball Map when I saw them last year. It made me chuckle, and luckily I filmed it.....

 

[galvanized]

Why does it sound like a cca 2009 youtube cover on a then-state of the art Schecter guitar and a Line 6 Spider amp?

How do you manage to re-record a song 20 years later and make it sound worse?

That’s what I was thinking, which is the ASOP sound as well.

 

[ThePhobiac]

Just heard the sample on FB. Sounding great to me, and pretty true to the original. Anders flexing that melody in the chorus better than he could back in 2000.

Wonder if it's just that one song or the whole album?

 

[A88]

Sorry man, how can this sound great to you?

Yes, Anders did his newly found studio magic on chorus melody. I guess a few songs from the album could profit from that (although they would lose some agrresion and honesty), but the rest of the sound is quite... ASOP meets ITM. Cardboard drums, rhythm guitar pushed to the background, dull/muddy sounding melodies.

And the funny thing is - "Clayman sound" is one of the best guitar sounds in history of metal. Clear, powerful and full. Even after 20 years it is still perfect.

Come to think of it, every IF album since (maybe ITM excluded) had major or minor sound fuck ups.

 

[ThePhobiac]

Oh, believe me, I'm usually the first to complain about production on IF's records. TJR is the only one I think is truly good in that regard. But I have no complaints with what I'm hearing from this sample. The drums sound fine to me. And I find the guitars actually fill up the space more than they did in the original, though they lack the original power. This sounds far better than ITM and ASOP to me in terms of production, let alone SOAPF and SC.

I'm actually not a huge fan of Clayman's production to begin with, so maybe that has something to do with it. It feels like a flimsier Colony, though it has more clarity.

EDIT: Those leads at the end of the sample have a very Reroute sound. I'm digging it.

 

[DE4life]

I'm more surprised that they actually did it since they've always been very reluctant doing these anniversary things and looking back to their history.

Money. Cashing in on the nostalgia generation. Everyone is doing it.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CA5f20THn9z/

The problem is the remake clip doesn’t really sound better. Or even that different.

Recording sounds kind of like A Sense of Purpose actually.

Agreed. They shit on their legacy enough with the likes of ASOP and SC, now they're literally going back and taking a dump on one of the greatest albums they ever made. Great.

Why does it sound like a cca 2009 youtube cover on a then-state of the art Schecter guitar and a Line 6 Spider amp?

How do you manage to re-record a song 20 years later and make it sound worse?

Because they aren't the same band and are nowhere near as good as they were back then. It's practically impossible to improve on Clayman, only to make it sound different and effectively worse with studio magic and shittier production.

And the funny thing is - "Clayman sound" is one of the best guitar sounds in history of metal. Clear, powerful and full. Even after 20 years it is still perfect.

Correct. This isn't like Behind Space '99 or Clad in Shadows '99 where the songs are clearly an improvement on predecessors. There were obvious reasons for re-recording those - different vocalist, shit production on Lunar Strain, etc. There is no reason to re-record Clayman for the modern era as it still sounds better than anything they did after it, and unlike 1999 they aren't capable in 2020 of improving their older songs, only making them worse. Of course the groupies will slobber all over it like they do everything the band releases - I've said before Anders could record 4 minutes of taking a shit and people would call it a masterpiece - but the reality is that there is no need for this and I'm personally not interested.

If they wanted to make an album in the same vein as Clayman then cool, I would certainly be down with that - especially if there was a way to get Jesper, Peter and Daniel to contribute. I doubt they could get anywhere close to the level they were at back then, but it would be interesting to hear them try. Rehashing a song (or songs) that are basically already perfect, though, with the band in its current state? Not worthwhile and not going to be worth listening to. I will listen out of morbid curiosity but I already know any rerecordings are going to be worse than the originals, so there's no way the 'new' versions are going to replace the originals in any playlist I ever compile.

 

[DE4life]

Yes, Anders did his newly found studio magic on chorus melody. I guess a few songs from the album could profit from that (although they would lose some agrresion and honesty)

The whole reason I appreciate Colony/Clayman's choruses is because they aren't overproduced, autotuned, studio magic'd bullshit. I like the rawness and appreciate the simplicity. For me there is no benefit to redoing any older chorus in the 'new' way as it instantly causes them to lose the passion that exists in the original versions.

 

[eochaid]

I've just heard the sample and it sounds as if they're trying to prostitute the song. Just by listening to the chorus I'm 100% convinced that they should be slapped in their faces, several times, and then forbidden to play anything prior to 2010 ever again.

Why are they trying to ruin everyone's memories on good times by doing this? Why do they hate us and those albums that much?

Of course, in a couple of days Jesper will say that this version is far superior to the original one because he's been desperately trying to be on good terms with them since he said some uncomfortable things about Anders and the band.

 

[krofius]

It's their own music...If they want to re-record anything then it's up to them, will this version be superior? Very unlikely. It's not going to ruin anything, the original is still there. Who said they hate those albums? I'm pretty sure Anders has said Clayman is his favorite album before, and not surprising since he named his company ClaymanLimited after the song/album. If they want to do a fun retake of the song for a 20th anniversary I really don't see the problem. Everyone already knows old fans will hate it, nothing new at all.

But don't act like all their re-recordings suck, if anyone doesn't think Behind Space and Clad in Shadows 99' is miles better than Lunar Strain versions, you're retarded.

 

[eochaid]

Behind space and clad in shadows 99 are miles ahead from the original recordings.

It's their own music and they can shit on it as much as they want but that doesn't mean that I shall accept it or agree with it.

Sorry for having an opinion. From now on I'll ask you before posting anything.

That chorus is still shit (comment still pending of approval by krofius so it might be changed in a near future to "I'm cool with it").

Now, being serious, remaking clad in shadows and behind space made sense. They did a better production, missing and arrangements.

Re recording a song that's yet perfect only to add a few effects, lots of effects in case of Anders voice makes no sense. Is like marrying the love of your life and then asking her, or him, to start having surgery to improve.

I also will need to.listen to the full thing but my impression is that they used parts of the original recording and simply remixed them. But I can be wrong.

 

[DE4life]

In the clip the first part is just the normal song from 2000, and the chorus part is the 'new' version. You can tell because the first part sounds awesome, clear and powerful, whilst the second part sounds muddy, washed out and has protooled vocals.

I honestly don't see the point in rerecording one or every song off Clayman, anniversary or not. It makes no sense to me. A live tour playing the album in its entirety once the CV19 stuff is over? Yeah, that'd be cool. A new song featuring Jesper, Daniel and Peter harkening back to the old Clayman style, maybe even produced by Nordstrom? Fuck yeah, totally down with that (although practically zero chance of that ever happening). Throwing out an unreleased song from the 99/00 era? That'd be sweet.

Rerecording Clayman (album or just the song) in the shitty modern style, though? No thanks. I prefer to keep Classic IF (1994-2000) completely separate from Nu In Flames (2002 onwards) - and it's not like I hate everything post-2002. I like a lot of it - but it's still a completely different era to me and not one I want mixed with the classic period. I can deal with it when it comes to live performances but that's my limit.

 

[A88]

Amen.

Extra song or two recorded by old lineup. Hell yeah. Recorded show where they play the whole thing. Very cool.

Re-recording the already excellent sounding album/song? Nope. At best it could turn out to be close to the original. But then, what's the point?

Behind space was a completely different thing because the original had an awful sound.

Come to think of it, IF dudes would do better to re-record most of post-Clayman stuff. Many of those albums had serious production issues.

ASOP for one screams and begs for better vocal performance and guitar tone.

 

[galvanized]

Amen.

Extra song or two recorded by old lineup. Hell yeah. Recorded show where they play the whole thing. Very cool.

Re-recording the already excellent sounding album/song? Nope. At best it could turn out to be close to the original. But then, what's the point?

Behind space was a completely different thing because the original had an awful sound.

Come to think of it, IF dudes would do better to re-record most of post-Clayman stuff. Many of those albums had serious production issues.

ASOP for one screams and begs for better vocal performance and guitar tone.

Agree. Soundtrack to Your Escape, Come Clarity, Reroute. All would be VERY interesting with different production. Clayman? Colony? Whoracle? No.