IN FLAMES Clayman Re-recorded 2020

[Jester Slave]

Guys, guys, guys... what if, and hear me out now. What if due to the quarantine, they thought they do something in their free time, and since it's the 20th anniversary of Clayman, they rerecorded the title track? There is really no harm in that.

If they rerecord (not remaster) the whole album and start selling it, then you can be outraged. If they release this song for free, because they were bored out of their asses when they were supposed to be on tour, then who cares?

Oh, believe me, I'm usually the first to complain about production on IF's records. TJR is the only one I think is truly good in that regard.

What?!?! That record's production could be labeled as "any poor, up and coming, underground metal band's sound". Does it even have production?

 

[DE4life]

Guys, guys, guys... what if, and hear me out now. What if due to the quarantine, they thought they do something in their free time, and since it's the 20th anniversary of Clayman, they rerecorded the title track? There is really no harm in that.

If they rerecord (not remaster) the whole album and start selling it, then you can be outraged. If they release this song for free, because they were bored out of their asses when they were supposed to be on tour, then who cares?

They can do whatever they want. But it is pointless and unnecessary, which I and various others will point out to avoid the usual IFWT helmets attempting to alter cognitive reality to justify their devotion.

There are plenty of cool things they could have done with their free time. Covering one of their own songs and announcing it as some kind of 'event' isn't one of them. Leave the IF covers to the people on YouTube, fellas. They're probably better than what's left of the band at it nowadays anyway.

 

[Jester Slave]

I think they are allowed to have fun with their music, especially on an anniversary. I rather have this, a re-recorded track for every anniversary, than just a hollow facebook post stating it's anniversary time and asking us to list our favorite tracks from the record.

In this case, I am happy they chose the title track, because the original one always rubbed me the wrong way. Couldn't say why.

 

[DE4life]

They are allowed to do whatever they choose with their music, but it's a shame this is the best they can come up with.

The title track was never one of my favourites off Clayman. I like it but it isn't in my top five from that album. In a way I'm glad they only appear to be doing that song, as I really wouldn't want to hear them attempting to remake the likes of OFTW (can you imagine modern Anders doing the vocals on this? Plus cranking up the synths like they do in live performances? Ugh) or Satellites and Astronauts (again, imagine modern Anders vocals on this... gross).

Clayman is a relatively 'safe' song to do compared to the other songs on the album they could potentially butcher.

 

[eochaid]

Guys, guys, guys... what if, and hear me out now. What if due to the quarantine, they thought they do something in their free time, and since it's the 20th anniversary of Clayman, they rerecorded the title track? There is really no harm in that.

If they rerecord (not remaster) the whole album and start selling it, then you can be outraged. If they release this song for free, because they were bored out of their asses when they were supposed to be on tour, then who cares?


What?!?! That record's production could be labeled as "any poor, up and coming, underground metal band's sound". Does it even have production?

It's most probably the song they've been recording with Howard Benson.

 

[eochaid]

I think they are allowed to have fun with their music, especially on an anniversary. I rather have this, a re-recorded track for every anniversary, than just a hollow facebook post stating it's anniversary time and asking us to list our favorite tracks from the record.

In this case, I am happy they chose the title track, because the original one always rubbed me the wrong way. Couldn't say why.

They could have done a live stream, or some kind of online meeting with the fans on which they could explain why they decided to cut out ties with Nordstrom after this album and go in a different direction.

 

[TheJestersDoor]

Just let the band do what the fuck they want for christ sake if you don't like what they're doing just move on.

I'm getting so bored of the constant negativity around whatever the band does, they cannot win because there's always people to talk shit.

The New version will undoubtedly be categorically worse than the original, but they're not the same people as 20 years ago, not got the same anger and fire that they had then, and that's what In Flames have always said, each album is lightning in a bottle - how they felt and sounded at that time. It's their music, they're not the first band to commemorate an anniversary of a seminal album, and they won't be the last. Not interested in it? Cool, don't listen to it, keep to the original. But there are a lot of 21st century fans who probably won't have heard the original material and so this is a good gateway for them to access it. Once again I will make the point that they are entitled to do whatever they want with their music.

When I joined this forum for the Battles thread before release, I wasn't surprised by the views on here, and same with on ITM, but this being the 3rd thread I've followed and seeing that almost every reaction, on all 3 times boils down to "they would have been better off not releasing anything" is just stupid, if you honestly think that way, then move on. Because that has what the band has done.

I'm all for open discussion and criticism but at this point it's just like a group of sniggering school kids waiting for the teacher to say something funny

 

[eochaid]

New fans need a re recording to access old albums because there's no internet and piracy anywhere so it is hard for them to reach to those albums.

Best argument ever.

They can do whatever they want with their music and we can do whatever we want with our comments.

What you said about the band can also be said about our comments. If you don't like them then just ignore them.

 

[TheJestersDoor]

New fans need a re recording to access old albums because there's no internet and piracy anywhere so it is hard for them to reach to those albums.

Best argument ever.

What you said about the band can also be said about our comments. If you don't like them then just ignore them.

I won't deny that but there is an argument that it's easier to find something when it's handed to you than to go out of your way to find it. I'm not saying that people aren't intelligent enough to go looking back at the old material, I'm just saying that it's a reason you can argue for why they're doing it

Perfectly true, you're correct, but on the other hand it would be nice to have a place where there can be open discussion about it without it becoming simply a bash what they do forum, which in the past I've seen a mix, but this thread has literally been nothing of the sort

 

[TheJestersDoor]

Have the album reissue art thanks to amazon

 

[eochaid]

I won't deny that but there is an argument that it's easier to find something when it's handed to you than to go out of your way to find it. I'm not saying that people aren't intelligent enough to go looking back at the old material, I'm just saying that it's a reason you can argue for why they're doing it

Perfectly true, you're correct, but on the other hand it would be nice to have a place where there can be open discussion about it without it becoming simply a bash what they do forum, which in the past I've seen a mix, but this thread has literally been nothing of the sort

Are you saying that people doesn't know how to use torrents anymore? Or how to do a quick search on google? A generation of people that will never buy a record in their entire lifetimes?

They're probably doing it because they felt it was needed to bring some kind of tribute to the album, but that doesn't imply that the result is good, or bad.

If it wasn't for criticism, that's being cofronted by Krofius neutrality and Slave's highly emotional posts this board would be dead a long time ago and the people that only comes for the leak would have nothing. The last album had a mix of reactions. Not fully negative or fully positive. Criticism comes from passion. I would instantly abandon this board if I didn't care for the band. No matter their current state, they keep on being one of my favourite bands ever.

 

[TheJestersDoor]

That's fair dude and yeah maybe I got a bit exacerbated and went over the top but it does irk me sometimes I think rationally, my point boils down to 2 things

- when we found out this was a clayman reissue I expected 2 reactions simultaneously - The new version will be worse (it will be, despite how much I'm interested in it) and that people were glad they're finally acknowledging their old stuff after I've seen people for years complaining how they don't spend enough time with that stuff

- And secondly, I'm baffled by the idea that people don't think it's fair or right for the band to do this with clayman, yet no one says anything about the fact they re-recorded Behind Space in '99 with only ONE consistent member between the 2 versions. The opinions on quality of the 2 remade songs are entirely subjective, but for one to be seen as accepted the other has too, on a principle level. That doesn't mean people have to LIKE it, but at least acknowledge they are entitled to do so and may want to do so.

 

[TheJestersDoor]

I wanna stress that's no hard feelings with anyone either, I just kinda had to rant sorry y'all

 

[eochaid]

No worries. Of you're passionate is because you also care.

My point is if it's really necessary to re record something that was yet perfect.

The sound on clayman album is perfection. I don't see how it can be improved in an way. Also, the sound and songs have not aged a bit and the song will.not be that different, apart from production and Anders voice, to the original one. Just worse.

So, doing a re recording with their modern sound and protools seems unnecessary and irrelevant.

 

[TheJestersDoor]

I don't disagree with the fact its trying to improve perfection, the new version will be worse, but if they want to do it all power to them, I won't stop them. The fact they didn't even TRY recreate the Clayman guitar tone is extremely sad but that's a Howard Benson thing and unfortunately that's part and parcel of the modern In Flames package. At least the production isn't Battles level bad as that album sounds awful, no revisionist point of view on that from me.

To be honest I've been wanting them to Re-record Cloud Connected for years as I don't rate RTR production, as good as the album is. Hate me but I think SC era in flames production (snare drum aside) would work quite well with the song, assuming Anders kept within his range. Why knows we may be here again in 2 years time

 

[DE4life]

For the past 9 years or so this forum has pretty much always been about free speech and getting away from the IFWT hivemind that exists elsewhere. There are plenty of other, far more active, outlets to discuss IF and only get positive feedback and opinions. If that's all you want then it's out there. This is literally a forum of, what, 5-10 regulars chatting shit? Sometimes about IF, sometimes about other stuff. Either way I'm really confused as to why anybody would be angry about it by this point. If you don't like our opinions then that's okay, there are a lot of other places for you to discuss the band in a more friendly/positive atmosphere. Alternatively if you want to debate our views that's fine too - getting upset and lashing out isn't really what any of us (with the exception of Slave and sometimes Krofi-kun) do here, though. We're all far too jaded for that.

As I have said, I accept that the band are free to do whatever they wish with their music. However I am also free to express my opinion that what they're doing now is dumb - and it's not like IF are the sole target. See the Cyhra II thread for that. I think we all pretty much agreed that album sucked too. Bad/bland music is what it is, and bad decisions are bad decisions whether we want them to be or not.

I genuinely can't see a reason for covering one of your own songs and making it worse. I mean, we all pretty much agree this will be the case. Yes the band can go ahead and do that, but why should I not criticise the stupidity of such a decision? As has been said by others, I would much rather they focus their efforts on remastering stuff from Reroute/STYE to actually sound decent. Rerecord ASOP in its entirety to actually sound professional and solid. Release SC and Battles with an entirely new tracklist and call the first issues of those albums shit demos that were accidentally leaked. Whatever.

 

[eochaid]

Yes to everything that de4life said. Specially the last paragraph. There's much room for improvement in those albums. Be it the sound or the music itself.

Sadly, I think that, under Howard Benson's, they would become some kind of modern in flames electro metal version of songs that were never given justice.

 

[DE4life]

Sadly, I think that, under Howard Benson's, they would become some kind of modern in flames electro metal version of songs that were never given justice.

Agreed, Benson would need to be out of the picture. I don't mind the production on ITM, to be fair, but I don't think he's the right person to try and remaster stuff like Reroute or STYE, and certainly not a rerecording of the ASOP album (for me the vocals on this album are so bad that a remaster isn't enough, it needs to be done again).

I really wish they'd just stuck with the SOAPF sound as it perfectly suited their current output, but I'm OK with ITM production if they keep it consistent going forward. It doesn't work with the really old material though (eg CLAYMAN) so DON'T DO IT

 

[Jester Slave]

They could have done a live stream, or some kind of online meeting with the fans on which they could explain why they decided to cut out ties with Nordstrom after this album and go in a different direction.

That would come off as bashing him. IF has done a pretty good job not burying anyone, not even Jesper, who was practically asking for some verbal ass whooping, and it would not have been hard to shame him into the ground.

Anders has already told that they weren't happy recording with Nordstrom, and the Clayman recording sessions were everything but fun. I respect them for not bringing it up over and over again, because they have a lot to thank Nordstrom for, so in this case, let the past be in the past.

 

[Jester Slave]

They are allowed to do whatever they choose with their music, but it's a shame this is the best they can come up with.

The title track was never one of my favourites off Clayman. I like it but it isn't in my top five from that album. In a way I'm glad they only appear to be doing that song, as I really wouldn't want to hear them attempting to remake the likes of OFTW (can you imagine modern Anders doing the vocals on this? Plus cranking up the synths like they do in live performances? Ugh) or Satellites and Astronauts (again, imagine modern Anders vocals on this... gross).

Clayman is a relatively 'safe' song to do compared to the other songs on the album they could potentially butcher.

STYE, CC and R2R would be worse, because he does a lot of screaming there, which he just can't do anymore. I don't like Friend (the first 1 minute is great), but with modern vocals it would just be like Everything's Gone.