IN FLAMES Clayman Re-recorded 2020

[TheJestersDoor]

Ha! I remember seeing the polishing a turd comment now you mention it, and the sinking ship one. I don't remember him praising house but I do know he was more favorable to it than SC and Battles. I also remember him and Peter went and watched an IF show after Peter had left the band, I can't remember on what tour though. Possibly the In My Room tour not sure though.

 

[TheJestersDoor]

Some more quotes from our boy Andurzz from a bunch of interviews I read.



Not sure about that. Good album, sure. Better than The Gallery, Damage Done, Character, Fiction? Not for me.



Yep, of course

Honestly I can believe his opinion as we know he's big on synths and atmospherics, especially if you follow his Instagram anyway, and Atoma leans heavily on its synth elements.

Battles was clearly a case of too many people in charge of writing trying to pull in different directions. Bjorn's riffing is on the album at times, buried or otherwise and there are recognisable parts but I feel howard and his team pushed the band too far into their own formula. Drained, Like Sand, Before I Fall, Through My Eyes, Underneath My Skin, Save Me, all these songs have individual moments where i'm like "yep thats In Flames" but they're buried under both shit production and in shit arrangements that don't fit like they should. Honestly Drained Before I Fall and Like Sand are the least offenders here, production and some bad lyrics aside they're B spec modern In Flames par for the course. The rest all just feel like Anders and Bjorn wrote a Demo that sounded like an IF song, an howard and co went "this is good, but we like it like THIS" and they have stated in interviews some of the songs changed a lot in the demo stage, Underneath My Skin especially. The End and Wallflower are the ony songs that FEEL entirely like In Flames playing In Flames songs, and not a product of In Flames performing a producers own vision of In Flames

 

[Jester Slave]

Interesting tidbits. Come Clarity is such a strange record. Imo the best IF album (which doesn't mean my favorite), yet sounds like the recording process was quite toxic. Meanwhile ASOP had a whole documentary, and while I love that record, there is no denying it could have been much-much better.

 

[Pallbearer]

It's not. Some people just don't like to talk about this kind of problems or simply think they're not that important.

I understand that. And I'm not suggesting he should've talked about them. It was mainly that he seemed to really be promoting a view that everything was awesome. He literally said the band had been having possibly more fun that ever. And that CC was one of the easiest IF albums to make. That's why I was surprised to see a completely different view being presented by others.

Of course, it can also be he was speaking more on his own, and not everyone's behalf. Björn seems to be a very diplomatic and friendly guy, so possibly he wasn't involved in the fighting not so much himself and was still enjoying his time in the band.

And yeah, I knew there were problems, but I'd imagined they started a bit later.

 

[Pallbearer]

Colony - finding Daniel was important because they found a great drummer and Anders says a big improvement on Bjorn who could "keep a beat but only play, like, one fill". Anders also says "I decided to leave behind all the made-up stories in my lyrics and write about my own mishaps and relationship problems" - which seems like more of a description of Clayman's lyrics than Colony.

Pretty sure he once said something like TJR is the warning/prophecy, Whoracle is about the war, and Colony is about the aftermath. Even though some lyrics on Colony were already more personal indeed. Scorn and Coerced Coexistence for example.

 

[eochaid]

What I don't understand is how they didn't notice that STYE was lacking guitar melodies and solos during the recording process and why they did nothing after they found out

 

[DE4life]

What I don't understand is how they didn't notice that STYE was lacking guitar melodies and solos during the recording process and why they did nothing after they found out

According to the interview a lot of the STYE stuff including the vocals were also recorded separate of each other, similar to Come Clarity. So I am guessing Anders specifically felt there wasn't enough melodies or solos. We already know Jesper & Bjorn didn't want to write so much melodic guitar during this time and neither like doing solos, so from their perspective they were probably happy enough with what they had created. By the time it came to mixing the end product it was probably too late to record anything new.

Admittedly it kind of flies in the face of the traditional idea that Anders is the one who forced them into a less melodic sound on STYE, but based on his comments in that interview and what we've heard about Jesper & Bjorn's motivations from Nordstrom during this timeframe it makes sense.

 

[eochaid]

They have always said that Bjorn and Jesper decided about the music and Anders about the vocals. That was probably the compromise that Anders was talking about in that interact that enraged Jesper. So I never thought that Anders had anything to do in the change of musical direction.

 

[DE4life]

Most people blamed and still do blame Anders for the shift in sound, but I agree that Jesper and Bjorn are probably where the blame lies in that regard. Funnily enough it sounds like Anders was the one pushing to keep more elements of the older sound, at least in terms of melodies and guitar solos. I would guess that SOAPF was closer to Anders' true vision of the band during that period - lots of guitar melodies and solos, accompanied by synths and a combination of his own harsh and clean vocals. I guess you could say ASOP fulfils this criteria too, but unfortunately his vocals on that one suck and the production is bad as well.

 

[eochaid]

They have stated many times that they like asop a lot.

We can blame Anders for the changing of producer in search to improve his vocals but we cannot blame him for wanting to do that.

The only album where is obvious that he's responsible for its direction is SC. Battles was a big mistake but is probably a mix of a producer's work and bad timing for the band to write it and ITM is the nearest they have released to SOAPF but with heavier elements.

 

[DE4life]

I think it was a group decision to change producer, so I wouldn't blame Anders for that either. It's clear Jesper & Bjorn were tired of being worked so hard on their guitars, whereas Anders wanted focus and improvement on his vocals, so they traded a producer who focuses on guitar work for a producer that focuses on vocals. They are all responsible for that decision and I am sure Jesper & Bjorn were happy to have less attention focused on their work.

 

[Pallbearer]

I
That I remember:

Siren Charms is lame.
Anders cannot make his own vocal melodies. It's all a producer's work.
He's glad he left the sinking ship
In flames should change their name.
He won't talk again about his ex band because everything is taken out of context.
He's going to see his ex band mates live.
House is the best IF song ever.

That mostly summarised his opinions about IF since he left

Speaking of that... not to seriously state they should've changed the name, but it surely would've had some comedy value if they'd continued as "In Flames of Fire"

 

[DE4life]

In Frames would have been my personal choice. Seems like something Anders would do to troll everyone tbh.

 

[DE4life]

Someone mentioned the extra ASOP tracks, this is a quote from Jesper on those songs:

There are actually sixteen songs. We recorded a cover song – and I will not mention which, because it’s never going to be released. But yes, there is one song left over, and it’s going to be released somehow, someday. It’s a cool song, but, I don’t know, it didn’t fit when we decided what would end up on the album and what would end up on the EP.

I'm really interested to know what the cover song was. I don't think the other song Jesper is talking about was released, unless I missed something somewhere.

 

[eochaid]

I think that krofius mentioned the name of the cover song as there are some bits of Anders singing it in the documentary.

What's interesting is... What kind of song did not fit into the album or the ep? Because there's a lot of variation there.

 

[DE4life]

I can only think of some kind of folky instrumental, similar to Pallars Anders Visa. I can't really think of anything else they could have recorded in the standard sessions that would be so different it wouldn't fit in with anything else.

 

[drawntoblack]

I'm really interested to know what the cover song was. I don't think the other song Jesper is talking about was released, unless I missed something somewhere.

Well, Jesper did say that he personally likes Backstreet Boys a lot and that they listened to a lot of it on the tour bus back in the day.

Pretty sure he once said something like TJR is the warning/prophecy, Whoracle is about the war, and Colony is about the aftermath. Even though some lyrics on Colony were already more personal indeed. Scorn and Coerced Coexistence for example.

Colony isn't necessarily the aftermath nor is it a "concept" album, it's more like an isolated episode from both the past and the future. That's what they said in the interview 20 years ago.

 

[eochaid]

Well, Jesper did say that he personally likes Backstreet Boys a lot and that they listened to a lot of it on the tour bus back in the day.

That's interesting. Because once, sometime ago, I read Jesper that Linkin Park was better than U2 because, at least LP was a metal band.

 

[Jester Slave]

And that is exactly why SOAPF and everything that followed is a little bit lackluster. It is extremely predictable, and they hadn't changed the recipe since. In the previous (to SOAPF) records it wasn't so obvious. Now I'm not blaming Anders, because it's not like he wanted to partially take charge over Jesper's part, because he thought he knew better, but still, it is what it is.

Aside from SC, they barely made anything interesting, and to many people, the SC kind of interesting is the wrong kind of interesting. WHich is understandable, SOAPF was already too slow by IF standard, and SC turned it even lower.

I'm just glad that at least ITM had some truly standout songs like I Am Above or the title track. Those are still pretty fucking dope. I could listen to Battles (record) all day as well, it is so catchy, but it doesn't scratch my thirst for some metal at all.

That's interesting. Because once, sometime ago, I read Jesper that Linkin Park was better than U2 because, at least LP was a metal band.

I mean who even likes U2? Rhetorical question as I know they are pretty damn famous, but man, try naming a more boring band. Also, Bono is fucking punchable.

 

[DE4life]

Whoracle comes off more as a lament of the human condition leading to an inevitable and bleak conclusion. There's a running theme of hopelessness in regards to humanity's future, and a grim acceptance of what is to come. I'm not sure it works particularly well as a concept album as it doesn't really tell a story, it's mostly a collection of songs which predict a dark, dystopian future. The Hive and JST in particular contain some of the greatest lyrics pertaining to this idea.

"We should have been
so much more by now
Too dead inside
to even know the guilt" - I love how Anders screams this last line in the final chorus, leading into the solo which ends the song. It's chilling and awesome at the same time.

"We've only seen the outlines of the beginning
and this core, the slowly moving raptor
will make the very notion of Hell
seem celestial in comparison." - probably one of my favourite lyrical/vocal verses, these lines are incredibly haunting and desperate.

To be honest The Jester Race is very similar in its themes and the way it expresses them. I'm not sure either album really outlines a story beyond a very vague premise which is sometimes referenced in the lyrics. Both albums contain a concept of sorts, but they don't really tell a story in the way traditional concept albums ("Dark Saga" by Iced Earth, for example) do.