IN FLAMES Clayman Re-recorded 2020

[eochaid]

I know one guy, now a drummer, that was a big fan of AS. That was a few years ago. And he couldn't be into IF until soapf was released though I kept on insisting that every in flames album was far superior to that lame band that is Avenged Sevenfold.

You just made me to remember about him.

Now he's a Jazz drummer. No cool. When I met him he was 12 and playing slipknot.

 

[DE4life]

I didn't mind Avenged Sevenfold during their earlier years. Sounding the Seventh Trumpet, Waking the Fallen and City of Evil are solid enough albums (although the vocals can be pretty annoying). I didn't really like anything they put out after 2005 though.



Not so bad. I've heard worse.

 

[miniroch]

Back to IF covers, I don't think anyone mentioned those guys:


I don't think it gets any better than this. Though my favourite from those madlads is definitely ATG:

 

[DE4life]

Yeah those guys have been posted on here a few times over the years, pretty cool alternative versions of these songs. I believe they did a Stand Ablaze cover as well.

 

[Sierota]

I thought early Avenged Sevenfold definitely had some MDM influence. I was obsessed with this album when it came out. Good memories.



Also, I remember reading at some point that In Flames said they were treated badly by Jon Schaffer of Iced Earth when they toured together. I doubt IF would do the same to another band.

 

[eochaid]

Back to IF covers, I don't think anyone mentioned those guys:


I don't think it gets any better than this. Though my favourite from those madlads is definitely ATG:

They even have their own Bjorn.

Avenged Sevenfold, Trivium... I'm not a big fan of American bands. What they're missing and I like about melodeath is the classical and folk influences, roots.

 

[DE4life]

There are some American metalcore bands I like - All That Remains, Arsis, Darkest Hour, DevilDriver, some early Shaodws Fall stuff - but I can't think of any American bands off the top of my head that I'd describe as purely MDM. The Black Dahlia Murder maybe, but they are all pretty much Metalcore with MDM influences here and there. With American bands it tends to be more of a focus on heaviness than melody.

On the other hand, there are American power metal groups that very much emulate the European sound. Cellador, LorenGuard, Demons & Wizards, Kamelot, Symphony X. You don't tend to get that same emulation in the MDM scene though, for whatever reason.

 

[eochaid]

Probably because the bands that are influenced by melodeath try to keep their American flavour or influences or whatever.

 

[Pallbearer]

Also, I remember reading at some point that In Flames said they were treated badly by Jon Schaffer of Iced Earth when they toured together. I doubt IF would do the same to another band.

Yeah I remember Anders said Schaffer used to openly talk shit about Swedes in front of them. And that he bullied them by giving them very little stage room. According to Anders he sometimes could barely stand in between the mic and the drumset.

Anders said the rest of the band was cool though.

I agree, I don't see anyone from IF as a bully type of person.

 

[DE4life]

The idea of Anders as a bully is pretty hilarious I can't imagine anybody less likely to be a bully.

 

[Sierota]

There are some American metalcore bands I like - All That Remains, Arsis, Darkest Hour, DevilDriver, some early Shaodws Fall stuff - but I can't think of any American bands off the top of my head that I'd describe as purely MDM. The Black Dahlia Murder maybe, but they are all pretty much Metalcore with MDM influences here and there. With American bands it tends to be more of a focus on heaviness than melody.

On the other hand, there are American power metal groups that very much emulate the European sound. Cellador, LorenGuard, Demons & Wizards, Kamelot, Symphony X. You don't tend to get that same emulation in the MDM scene though, for whatever reason.

I'd say Black Dahlia is pretty much full MDM at this point. Here's one of my favorites by them.

 

[Pallbearer]

So, when was the first time everyone saw In Flames live? Mine was with Iced Earth in Chicago in 2002. Both bands were at the height of their powers. Iced Earth was promoting Horror Show and In Flames was still promoting Clayman.

Mine was in November 2002 in Tampere, Finland. Reroute was already out. Setlist was as follows:

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/in-flames/2002/pakkahuone-tampere-finland-43d2573f.html

I was so young, naive and 100% fanboy I saw In Flames as some kind of demigods and that really added to the experience. I honestly thought they could probably never release an album I don't like. Only took less than two years from that point for it to happen.

 

[The Grayfox]

Yeah I remember Anders said Schaffer used to openly talk shit about Swedes in front of them. And that he bullied them by giving them very little stage room. According to Anders he sometimes could barely stand in between the mic and the drumset.

I remember when this came out. I thought it was bullshit then and I think it's bullshit now. Iced Earth has toured with Swedish bands that haven't said anything negative about him at all. In fact, the Sabaton guys had nothing but good things to say and even had him do a guest spot on The Last Stand. I'm not saying that In Flames and Jon didn't have their issues, but I have serious doubts it was because they're Swedish. I think they just didn't get along.

 

[eochaid]

Yeah I remember Anders said Schaffer used to openly talk shit about Swedes in front of them. And that he bullied them by giving them very little stage room. According to Anders he sometimes could barely stand in between the mic and the drumset.

Anders said the rest of the band was cool though.

I agree, I don't see anyone from IF as a bully type of person.

I guess... Someone with such a traditional American family name as Shaffer can do that. Is not as he could be related to the Swedish in any way.

 

[Sierota]

I guess... Someone with such a traditional American family name as Shaffer can do that. Is not as he could be related to the Swedish in any way.

Iced Earth is still my favorite metal band either way. Alive in Athens is just too epic. It was In Flames for about a decade but, well, we know what happened to them.

 

[Sierota]

Mine was in November 2002 in Tampere, Finland. Reroute was already out. Setlist was as follows:

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/in-flames/2002/pakkahuone-tampere-finland-43d2573f.html

I was so young, naive and 100% fanboy I saw In Flames as some kind of demigods and that really added to the experience. I honestly thought they could probably never release an album I don't like. Only took less than two years from that point for it to happen.

Great setlist. I saw them on the Reroute tour in 2003. The lineup was Soilwork, Chimaira, and Unearth. Here's the setlist.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/in-flames/2003/vic-theatre-chicago-il-2bdacc2e.html

 

[Simo Pumba]

I started doing some covers for fun in 2005 or 2006, I think. I was really bad though I was trying to copy Anders but I sucked. It took two or three years before I found a comfortable style that didn't sound terrible. I really enjoyed those times though, I met a lot of really cool people and was lucky enough to do some collab stuff with some awesome musicians, even creating some original tracks. The production on all of them sucks, because it's homebrew, but it's still nice to have some original MDM stuff with my vocals and lyrics on it. I had a lot of fun, although my neighbours probably thought I was insane.

Using professional programs can be a bit daunting at first as there are so many options, but I always enjoyed tinkering with things and seeing how the different effects and settings worked. If it's something you're interested in I'd definitely recommend it.



Thanks bro, that was actually the last track I ever put vocals down to, in 2013. After that I "retired" an amazing career. I agree with you on Lindberg/early-Anders style of screaming, it's very unique and is by far my favourite style of harsh vocal. With almost all of those vocalists it was impossible to keep up long-term though, as I really don't think there's any safe way to perform that style of vocal - possibly if it was only in studio, but not with touring as well.



I can remember expressing similar sentiments around the SC/Battles period, that if they want to move away from metal they should just do it, rather than the half-in/half-out stance they seemed to be taking. Obviously with ITM they've shifted back a little more into the metal arena, which is nice. I have no idea what to expect from their next release though. It could easily be another SC/Battles, especially if they are still working with Benson - and unfortunately I am sure they will be.

Agree on the ASOP production completely. The guitar tone is shit. It baffles me that Jesper of all people was and still is happy with it, but I guess it's all opinions at the end of the day. If any album needs a remastering it is ASOP - although I don't think remastering alone would be able to do anything about the guitar tone. It would probably require an entire rerecording, including vocals, so... we'll probably just have to make do with the album as it is. Plenty of potential, but sadly mostly ruined by the production and vocals.

Haha I was trying to sound like Anders myself It sounded absolutely horrendous, took some time to realise that. I was just fascinated hearing myself I guess. Would be fun to make my own song(s) myself some day, I'm just forever too busy. And lazy. And looking at all the options on pro editing programs make my head ache

Swedish melodeath bands had some amazing vocals back in the days. Unique and powerful, but yeah they probably fucked up their vocal chords. Anders around The Jester Race and Whoracle is probably my favorite, and I still enjoy what he's been doing since Clayman. I like his cleans as well, studio magic or not. Even ASOP, it's not great but the vocals are alright to me on many of the songs. My biggest issue with that record is the guitar sound. I remember seeing The mirrors truth live a few years ago and it was one of the highlights, sounded amazing! A re-recording of that album would be awesome

I hope they continue in the ITM vain on the next album, but it's hard to tell with these guys. Considering Anders' recent live peformances though, he'll probably want some bangers where he can growl throughout the whole song. Then with some odd ballads in between. Gonna be interesting nonetheless

 

[ThePhobiac]

Q: "What was the hardest song to write/record on Clayman?"

Anders: "I don't know. Maybe OFTW, maybe Satellites."

Q: "What is your favorite song on Clayman?"

Anders: "I don't know."

I'm not really a huge fan of interviews with IF because you never get an interesting answer from these motherfuckers lmao. Bjorn, you're guilty of this, too.

 

[DE4life]

Haha I was trying to sound like Anders myself It sounded absolutely horrendous, took some time to realise that. I was just fascinated hearing myself I guess. Would be fun to make my own song(s) myself some day, I'm just forever too busy. And lazy. And looking at all the options on pro editing programs make my head ache

Yeah it can get pretty intensive once you get into it. I'd take days trying to get everything sounding perfect, and even then I was never 100% satisfied. There's always some effect, reverb, or whatever that can change how a vocal sounds. Eventually I stopped messing around and just stuck to a process that I knew worked for my harsh vocals, but it took a while to get to that point. I never found a way to integrate cleans, but that is probably just because I can't sing and short of stealing Anders' ProTools software nothing was ever going to make me sound like a good singer

Swedish melodeath bands had some amazing vocals back in the days. Unique and powerful, but yeah they probably fucked up their vocal chords. Anders around The Jester Race and Whoracle is probably my favorite, and I still enjoy what he's been doing since Clayman. I like his cleans as well, studio magic or not. Even ASOP, it's not great but the vocals are alright to me on many of the songs. My biggest issue with that record is the guitar sound. I remember seeing The mirrors truth live a few years ago and it was one of the highlights, sounded amazing! A re-recording of that album would be awesome

My favourite cleans from Anders are the ones between Reroute and Come Clarity. They are quite raw and unfiltered, but there's a charm about them that I can enjoy. The overprocessed clean vocals from SC, Battles and parts of ITM sound awful to me though.

Mirror's Truth is fantastic live, and gives a glimpse into what we should have heard on the album version. That song, and many others on ASOP, are powerful - they are just made to sound weak by the production, and that's a shame.

 

[DE4life]

Q: "What was the hardest song to write/record on Clayman?"

Anders: "I don't know. Maybe OFTW, maybe Satellites."

Q: "What is your favorite song on Clayman?"

Anders: "I don't know."

I'm not really a huge fan of interviews with IF because you never get an interesting answer from these motherfuckers lmao. Bjorn, you're guilty of this, too.

I knew as soon as I saw the link to that video that Anders was going to give some vague, boring response this is the exact quote, word for word:

"I dunno which song was the most... difficult... to... to record. I mean, we don't look, whenever we do an album, we don't look at... I mean obviously you care about the individual songs, but it's more a concept, it's more an album, we don't write singles (LOL yeah, OK), we write whole albums. Um... and again it's quite difficult to go back and think about... what was difficult then and probably really frustrating. Like, I had...huge problems to get, uh, Only For The Weak to where I wanted it to be...um... but um... yeah I... I think Satellites and Astronauts (he pronounces it like Oughstranats ) is another song which was quite... different, uh, how it... sounded to the other songs and, and, and... you know, it was, it is a slow atmospheric song, and here I am, can't really sing, you know - trying to, trying to sing and trying make it sound good. I guess that was difficult, but again, it's looking back now it's I can't... I dunno, ha ha. Um... uh... we probably...yeah, we were probably struggling a lot with all the songs, but thinking about it now it feels like it was a breeze to make that whole album."