GarethSE
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- Jul 5, 2008
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gtfo means stop fucking the industry in the ass by devaluing proper mastering by offering some kids with cracked plugs 25 a pop to l2 the shit out of your music.
Interested in mastering?
- Thread starter theforgotten
- Start date
gtfo means stop fucking the industry in the ass by devaluing proper mastering by offering some kids with cracked plugs 25 a pop to l2 the shit out of your music.
arv_foh
Brian K
Haha, I was going to say I wonder how many people out of the 7 "masters" just threw the tracks in Ozone to try and make an easy $225
Soundlurker
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- Nov 19, 2005
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While I generally agree with you, need I remind you that $225 is half of the average monthly income in Macedonia, which is around $440 as opposed USA's $3000
Skaldir
formerly known as Unicorn
Harry Hughes
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- Apr 25, 2009
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Should I remind you that they work as a band and everyone of them has a decent job so they can pay for recording,mixing and mastering?
Everyone has a different technique and at the end the quality matters not the used software.There's a cool clips here on the forum made with 2.5mb ampsims and there's a clips made with hardware amps that sound very bad!
Look Gareth!I'm not fucking the industry.I'm sure that I offered a fair deal.We were browsing for online mastering and decided that 25$ per song is a acceptable price for them and I wrote that everybody to know and I'm not software agent and I can't go from pc to pc to see who uses pirated software.I trust that the users who send their masters use legal software but I can't be sure.I can't enter in their mind and to know that they don lie.How can we know that you use legal software?Would you show us the S/N of all your software?I respect you as a great vocalist and great musician and producer.I like the stuff that you record with GubbKuk.But its very insultingly to say that someone's music is shit.I will not replay to this thread.Thanks to everyone!
Line666
Fendurr
- Sep 2, 2006
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He didn't insult your work at all, that's a misunderstanding.
You should probably look through some of the engineers on this forum's work then contact them directly based on what you're hearing and who you think might work in your price range, open threads like this encourage leechers to come in and present you with work ran through mastering presets and attempt to take you for a ride (Muckypup represent, you're not fooling anyone, you don't even have a proper listening environment or speaker setup so how you expect to produce even a reasonable master I do not know). Also there's always the fools that will "do it for free" and attempt to undercut everyone, which is really dodgy and unprofessional.
You should probably look through some of the engineers on this forum's work then contact them directly based on what you're hearing and who you think might work in your price range, open threads like this encourage leechers to come in and present you with work ran through mastering presets and attempt to take you for a ride (Muckypup represent, you're not fooling anyone, you don't even have a proper listening environment or speaker setup so how you expect to produce even a reasonable master I do not know). Also there's always the fools that will "do it for free" and attempt to undercut everyone, which is really dodgy and unprofessional.
GarethSE
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exactly
and then there's the fact that there's a select few bunch of REAL mastering engineers on here. mastering is far more than a process of making your shit loud and doing a bit of EQ and it needs a specific set of talents and the best possible listening environment.
i could have easily chimed in and said YEH LUL ILL MASTER IT HOW MUHC HURR HURRR and ran your stuff through gclip and L2, but I didn't, and you know why? Because you should treat your baby better than that. Send your music to a PROPER mastering engineer and get a proper job done of it, not this 5 minute ozone bullshit.
you may not like the way i made my point, but I just said what many were thinking.
either way, it's all for the betterment of YOUR fucking music. we're all musicians here, nobody would want their shit to get ruined by some kid an ozone preset because any self respecting musician nurtures and cares for their upcoming album like it was their first born, and getting your album mastered like this is like feeding a baby cement mix to help it grow. starts out as something pure and gets so clogged full of nasty shit that it up and dies. i would never do that to any of my own music, and i wouldnt wish it upon any other musician.
and then there's the fact that there's a select few bunch of REAL mastering engineers on here. mastering is far more than a process of making your shit loud and doing a bit of EQ and it needs a specific set of talents and the best possible listening environment.
i could have easily chimed in and said YEH LUL ILL MASTER IT HOW MUHC HURR HURRR and ran your stuff through gclip and L2, but I didn't, and you know why? Because you should treat your baby better than that. Send your music to a PROPER mastering engineer and get a proper job done of it, not this 5 minute ozone bullshit.
you may not like the way i made my point, but I just said what many were thinking.
either way, it's all for the betterment of YOUR fucking music. we're all musicians here, nobody would want their shit to get ruined by some kid an ozone preset because any self respecting musician nurtures and cares for their upcoming album like it was their first born, and getting your album mastered like this is like feeding a baby cement mix to help it grow. starts out as something pure and gets so clogged full of nasty shit that it up and dies. i would never do that to any of my own music, and i wouldnt wish it upon any other musician.
Harry Hughes
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- Apr 25, 2009
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Another thing to take into consideration is the mastering is truly the last opportunity you have to make it sound as good as it can possibly be.
What this means is, having a good monitoring environment to be able to HEAR what's going on in order to do this effectively.
Muckypup has good intentions and is a nice guy for sure, but I suspect he is not sitting behind a decent 3 way monitoring mid-field system, nor sitting in a room with shit loads of acoustic treatment.
I could offer my "mastering servicez" but at best, I would be a dishonest crook, and at worst it's to the detriment of the industry.
If you can't afford to take it to an ME from a place like the US or Australia where it's not gonna be cheap, at least hook up with an ME in Macedonia, because I'm sure that's gotta be at least one guy in your country that's full equipped to do it right for a reasonable price
"Should I remind you that they work as a band and everyone of them has a decent job so they can pay for recording,mixing and mastering?"
You even just said it right there.
The band can fucking afford it. Be honest with your clients and tell them to take the work to a real mastering engineer instead of stooping down to the lowest common denominator and asking for super cheap mastering from people who don't have a fucking clue what they are doing
What this means is, having a good monitoring environment to be able to HEAR what's going on in order to do this effectively.
Muckypup has good intentions and is a nice guy for sure, but I suspect he is not sitting behind a decent 3 way monitoring mid-field system, nor sitting in a room with shit loads of acoustic treatment.
I could offer my "mastering servicez" but at best, I would be a dishonest crook, and at worst it's to the detriment of the industry.
If you can't afford to take it to an ME from a place like the US or Australia where it's not gonna be cheap, at least hook up with an ME in Macedonia, because I'm sure that's gotta be at least one guy in your country that's full equipped to do it right for a reasonable price
"Should I remind you that they work as a band and everyone of them has a decent job so they can pay for recording,mixing and mastering?"
You even just said it right there.
The band can fucking afford it. Be honest with your clients and tell them to take the work to a real mastering engineer instead of stooping down to the lowest common denominator and asking for super cheap mastering from people who don't have a fucking clue what they are doing
Plec
Master of Ceremonies
Although I believe theforgotten's intention is good and maybe there could also be a language barrier thing, but to me it sounds a bit like going to the supermarket for a litre of milk and telling the cashier that you want it for free, but if you like this one litre you would be happy to pay for any more milk you'd might buy there in the future. 
Just to enlighten the forum on some pretty common mastering rates...
~$25 per song, for mastering is nothing but hobbyist and/or people who don't know what they're doing and just trying to con you out of money. You could just as well ask your next door neighbor to master it for you, and chances are he might do it even better.
~$70 per song, is entry level mastering rates. Usually demanded by people who has a decent software setup at home with a decent environment but don't do it full time.
~$100 per song, is a pretty medium rate where you get an engineer with real experience doing it. Good software and maybe some hardware and good environment is not uncommon.
~$140 per song, is where you start to get a professional and experienced engineer with nice all-round gear and environment going. Some higher profile suites might have a similar rate as a kind of entry level "deal" for clients just getting into mastering, but when normally charging 4 times as much they tend not to care too much about what is being worked on and will resort to pretty "standard" techniques just to get things done, or even have an intern doing it.
~$200 per song, is where great usually becomes pretty awesome. Gear, monitoring and experience is top notch.
~$500+ per song, is where stuff just gets ridiculous and you're paying for names and track records rather than results. Although gear, experience and environment could almost not be any better, you are paying a lot of money for the hype alone.
Of course there are exceptions to these, but not very many since mastering is a very specialized trade where you have few people doing it and even fewer doing it very well.
Just to enlighten the forum on some pretty common mastering rates...
~$25 per song, for mastering is nothing but hobbyist and/or people who don't know what they're doing and just trying to con you out of money. You could just as well ask your next door neighbor to master it for you, and chances are he might do it even better.
~$70 per song, is entry level mastering rates. Usually demanded by people who has a decent software setup at home with a decent environment but don't do it full time.
~$100 per song, is a pretty medium rate where you get an engineer with real experience doing it. Good software and maybe some hardware and good environment is not uncommon.
~$140 per song, is where you start to get a professional and experienced engineer with nice all-round gear and environment going. Some higher profile suites might have a similar rate as a kind of entry level "deal" for clients just getting into mastering, but when normally charging 4 times as much they tend not to care too much about what is being worked on and will resort to pretty "standard" techniques just to get things done, or even have an intern doing it.
~$200 per song, is where great usually becomes pretty awesome. Gear, monitoring and experience is top notch.
~$500+ per song, is where stuff just gets ridiculous and you're paying for names and track records rather than results. Although gear, experience and environment could almost not be any better, you are paying a lot of money for the hype alone.
Of course there are exceptions to these, but not very many since mastering is a very specialized trade where you have few people doing it and even fewer doing it very well.
Harry Hughes
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As I said earlier in the thread, Plec is a legitimate mastering engineer and now that's he chimed in, it backs up our points on the topic. This is a guy that knows his shit, make no mistake.
When you take into account the kind of overhead expenses a typical mastering business might have, I think $200 for a serious pro level job as Plec describes a song is VERY reasonable indeed.
Of course if the 200 dollars a pop sounds too much, surely the results you can get from a $100 a song mastering deal is going to be infinitely better than a $ 25 a song deal, while only being 4 times the price.
Sounds like a bargain to me
When you take into account the kind of overhead expenses a typical mastering business might have, I think $200 for a serious pro level job as Plec describes a song is VERY reasonable indeed.
Of course if the 200 dollars a pop sounds too much, surely the results you can get from a $100 a song mastering deal is going to be infinitely better than a $ 25 a song deal, while only being 4 times the price.
Sounds like a bargain to me
El_Gato
I love this gain
Plec
Master of Ceremonies
Oh, and just to add one more thing. I think it's very common for people to only worry about the sound issue when they are thinking about mastering, but truth is this is only half the battle. Doing a very nice sequencing job, editing, having perfect bit integrity throughout the process or even knowing what formats, physical or digital to send for replication and how to create them properly, or just plain ol' PQ coding of tags, ISRC codes and the likes to get all information where it needs to be in all different formats. These are things that you don't really notice until they are missing, and depending on where your final destination is with your project, whether cd, radio, itunes, spotify etc... you will have problems down the road that you wouldn't have gotten if it was done right in the first place.
Even hiring the competence to create the right information on your release and make sure it plays back and reads correctly in all situations is very uncommon I believe until you're looking at the ~$100 per song guys.
And also as Harry pointed out earlier... the mastering process is really a make or break type of situation where everything you've done up to this point in terms of writing, recording, arranging, mixing etc... is all dependent on and can be ruined in mastering by not being up to par with the earlier processes in terms of attention to detail and just how the whole thing is being presented to the listener.
There, enough with the crude facts... Now, go smash that waveform!
Even hiring the competence to create the right information on your release and make sure it plays back and reads correctly in all situations is very uncommon I believe until you're looking at the ~$100 per song guys.
And also as Harry pointed out earlier... the mastering process is really a make or break type of situation where everything you've done up to this point in terms of writing, recording, arranging, mixing etc... is all dependent on and can be ruined in mastering by not being up to par with the earlier processes in terms of attention to detail and just how the whole thing is being presented to the listener.
There, enough with the crude facts... Now, go smash that waveform!
Thanks Plec for explaining the situation without being an ass. No offense to you other guys Therefore I wont take this oppurtunity to master. Hopefully the TS will go with a professional mastering engineer. (and for the record, I DONT use cracked software, and I have a decent pair of monitors)
Therefore I wont take this oppurtunity to master. Hopefully the TS will go with a professional mastering engineer. (and for the record, I DONT use cracked software, and I have a decent pair of monitors)
Hi there!The band listened all masters and made a final decision about which master they like the most.They liked most of the masters and at the end they had to choose between Shadow Walker's and Williamn master.They choose Shadow Walker's master as a final.Thanks to everyone and sorry if I insulted anyone of the professionals here,it wasn't my intention.Next time when I need something I'll search first,then ask in pvt and then post!Sorry again!
Williamn
Member
Ah, well nice knowing the band liked it ! .. to bad my time was limited when I did it.
and for the record, I don't remotely consider myself a master engineer and didn't even care about the money.. I just saw a challenge and thought for fun and personal experience I would give it a try.
Oh and if you don't mind here was my take for those who thought it would be interesting to hear.
the "mastered" version: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1709665/William-theforgotten-master.mp3
And a untouched version for comparison, only thing I did was raise the volume to about the same as the other
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1709665/William-theforgotten-VOLUMEONLY.mp3
peace out !
.. to bad my time was limited when I did it.and for the record, I don't remotely consider myself a master engineer and didn't even care about the money.. I just saw a challenge and thought for fun and personal experience I would give it a try.
Oh and if you don't mind here was my take for those who thought it would be interesting to hear.
the "mastered" version: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1709665/William-theforgotten-master.mp3
And a untouched version for comparison, only thing I did was raise the volume to about the same as the other
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1709665/William-theforgotten-VOLUMEONLY.mp3
peace out !
Soundlurker
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Glad to hear the band liked my version.
I'd like to clarify that I too decided to participate mainly for the experience and challenge. Ever since Nathan James from The Vault mastered one of my mixes I recommend him to all of my friends clients and colleagues. In this particular case I made an exception because I assumed the band simply cannot afford an engineer of that caliber. For me mastering is a fascinating thing and given the circumstances I thought I'd futher explore it.
BTW if all mastering gigs went to people with 20+ years of experience then no one new would have learned how it's done and in a few decades the mastering engineer would have become extinct.
I'd like to clarify that I too decided to participate mainly for the experience and challenge. Ever since Nathan James from The Vault mastered one of my mixes I recommend him to all of my friends clients and colleagues. In this particular case I made an exception because I assumed the band simply cannot afford an engineer of that caliber. For me mastering is a fascinating thing and given the circumstances I thought I'd futher explore it.
BTW if all mastering gigs went to people with 20+ years of experience then no one new would have learned how it's done and in a few decades the mastering engineer would have become extinct.
Harry Hughes
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- Apr 25, 2009
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I don't think anyone has necessarily said the job has to be passed onto an experienced master engineer.
The point was more about sending it to a capable mastering engineer who feel they can do a good job.
Even a beginning mastering engineer should have the fundamentals down before they actually goes and masters anything for money.
Just the same as you don't go to track a band but have never mic'd up an amp in your life and go to do it for your first time when recording a band that is paying you money for a job you are most likely going to botch.
And by the time they do go to master a project, they will charge what they feel they are worth and what will cover their overhead expenses of having bought all that expensive gear needed for mastering, rather than selling themselves short and charging $25 a project
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