Iron Maiden - The Final Frontier

[Jasonic]

Yeah, go listen to some SUNN 0)))) or some BORIS, and then see if you find recent Maiden boring!

 

[General Zod]

I call it, "loyalty", not "nostalgia".

For you, I have no doubt it's loyalty. However, you can't ignore the nostalgia aspect of it for many.

There's a reason that Maiden's record sales have plummeted (compared to their 80s numbers), while their ticket sales have remained stellar. And it's not just MP3s. At any given Maiden show, I'd guess there's a large percentage of people there who haven't bought a Maiden disc since Fear of the Dark. They go for the classics. Which as I said, is why the classics get a much bigger crowd reaction than the new tracks (or even the no so new, but not "classic" tracks). This isn't a bad thing or knock on Maiden in anyway. Quite the contrary. I think it speaks to the power and quality of the music they wrote back in the day, and the amazing quality of their live shows. However, I don't think you can discount the nostalgic reaction Maiden's music invokes for many.

Cool. I was wondering if you'd be able to hold out.

It was an excellent review.

Just to clarify a bit, I was never holding out. With Mindcrime II, I refuse to hear it on principle. However, with the new Maiden disc, it was solely about interest. I had genuinely been on the fence about bothering with it. The first reviews swayed me one way, and the latter reviews another.

I see checking out a new Maiden album as something similar to going to their shows: it's one of the last universal experiences that we can share in today's highly-fragmented metal world, a rare time when we all hop aboard the same boat. So it's kind of fun to be a part of it just for that.

That's a pretty cool way to look at it.

Yeah, I'm completely baffled by the "wah wah, it's boring!!" song editors. I really wonder what kind of other music they listen to, and what would happen if they were forced to listen to some Isis, or Agalloch, or Drudkh, or Primordial, or any other bands that deal strongly in atmosphere and dynamics. Can boredom reach such intensity that it causes heads to explode, or would the death come quietly by way of coma?

While I would doubt that the majority of folks here are fans of Isis, Agalloch, Drudkh and Primordial, I can see where people would find this slow, or dull. Maiden takes their time making their point on this one.

Interesting, since it's the melodies (both vocal and guitar) that draw me in so strongly. But, predicting whether a melody that works for one person will work for another is one of the most random and difficult things in the world, so I will not scold your obvious, embarrassing, and nearly-criminal lack of good taste.

Just curious, are you of the opinion that the melodies are instant? I'm getting the sense that even those who are giving this disc a thumbs up, are only doing so after pressing through it three or four times.

I do find it interesting that I've seen multiple people specifically say that they dislike the "Mother of Mercy" chorus, while that's one of the highlights of the album for me. And then I just saw someone complain specifically about the "Starblind" verse melody, which is another moment that I highlighted in my review for its awesomeness. So, whether those conflicting opinions are because I'm more "forward thinking" in my taste in melodies, or because I simply like stuff that sucks, it's clear that those melodies *must* be unique and affecting, which, in my book, is always better than boring and unnoticed.

In the big picture, I would agree that a melody people react to, one way or the other, is positive. However, and this is quite obvious, for those who go the opposite way with the melody, it can create a negative association with the disc as a whole.

 

[Saladbar]

I do find it interesting that I've seen multiple people specifically say that they dislike the "Mother of Mercy" chorus, while that's one of the highlights of the album for me.

I've heard this a lot too. I've also heard that he's straining his voice and can't hit those notes anymore but I disagree. I want to compare his style of singing on this chorus to the one on Darkside of Aquarius off Accident Of Birth, an album that came out 12 yrs ago yet he sounds the same.


Chorus is starts at 1:32

 

[Jasonic]

There's a reason that Maiden's record sales have plummeted (compared to their 80s numbers), while their ticket sales have remained stellar. And it's not just MP3s. At any given Maiden show, I'd guess there's a large percentage of people there who haven't bought a Maiden disc since Fear of the Dark. They go for the classics.

Absolutely!
Don't you think though that this is a reason Maiden favors newer material on recent tours? They know that a LARGE percentage of old school fans who come to the shows have no plan on purchasing new material off the bat. Therefore, if they showcase it to them live, there is a better chance they will 1) actually HEAR new Maiden material, and 2) possibly purchase the album.

 

[Jasonic]

One more point.
I think the way Maiden operates is why at the end of the day, they will always be superior to Priest.

Priest makes an ambitious record like Nostradamus to follow it up with Metal Master tour, playing only ONE song from the album. Then a year later, follow up with the BRITISH STEEL tour.

Needless to say, that certainly did NOT help sales for Nostradamus, as I am sure that many fans who see Priest out of nostalgia have barely heard a lick off the album.

 

[skyrefuge]

There's a reason that Maiden's record sales have plummeted (compared to their 80s numbers)

I know you were only comparing to the 80s numbers, but I thought it was extremely interesting to read the US first-week sales figures of their last 4 albums posted at Bmouth today:

Brave New World: 38,000
Dance of Death: 40,000
AMOLAD: 56,000
The Final Frontier: 65,000-70,000 (projected)

Has any other band in history doubled their sales between their 12th and 15th albums?

At any given Maiden show, I'd guess there's a large percentage of people there who haven't bought a Maiden disc since Fear of the Dark. They go for the classics.

A large percentage, no doubt, but I still think your assumptions about that percentage might be a bit too high. Did you read the responses to your "ideal setlist" thread? There was a LOT of post-FotD material listed across those setlists.

But yes, without their success in the 80s, there is no way that they would draw the interest that they do today (though I don't think mp3s have anything to do with that).

It was an excellent review.

Thanks! And I totally understood where you were coming from in your lack of interest...you know me, I *invented* "if I don't think it'll be worth my time, I'm not going to bother".

Just curious, are you of the opinion that the melodies are instant?

Yes, for me, they were instant. I was humming them after the first listen, and as I said, had most of the songs spontaneously popping in my head a few days later.

But, instant for me doesn't predict how they will work for anyone else. Neil's First Law of Music Appreciation says that music is "good" when an incoming sequence of sounds neatly fits the music receptors in the listener's brain. In other words, music can be neither good nor bad on its own; only when mixed with a listener's brain can the quality be measured. Neil's Second Law says that a listener's music receptors are in a constant state of flux, and the current state of that receptor bank is generally the result of all the accumulated music experiences the listener has had up until that moment. For example, listening to a bunch of AC/DC can dull the AC/DC music receptors, and brings the prog metal receptors to the fore, at which point the listener says "whoa, Dream Theater is awesome!" But then years of listening to prog metal clones can dull the Dream Theater receptors, and if Volbeat comes along at that moment, there can be a receptor match resulting in high appreciation.

Somehow it seems like my brain was just "ready" for this exact Iron Maiden album. Some of that is certainly due to my affinity for atmospheric and experimental music, but there also must be a certain amount of random luck involved for me to latch on to these particular melodies.

I've heard this a lot too. I've also heard that he's straining his voice and can't hit those notes anymore but I disagree. I want to compare his style of singing on this chorus to the one on Darkside of Aquarius off Accident Of Birth, an album that came out 12 yrs ago yet he sounds the same.

Yeah, I wonder if people mistake an intentional slide into a note as an unintentional error? So calling an unexpected melody "straining" is flat wrong, but I do think there are parts where his voice could legitimately be called "strained". However, I think that's largely intentional as well. From interviews, it sounds like they were even *more* serious about a "live" recording on this album than on the previous ones, which were already some of the least-polished records in the metal world. If you aren't doubling the vocals or doing and studio trickery to fix 'em up, yeah, they aren't going to sound like the polished stuff you hear on every other metal album. And I think that's awesome...it's a metal record, about death and other various things. When you sing, it *should* sound like you're straining from time to time, not like you're relaxing on your chaise lounge sipping a pina colada and being fanned by girls waving palm branches. This is the concept that, when taken to its extreme, gave us death and black metal. (I know I've made this point about some previous Maiden album as well, but I haven't gone back to check if TFF exhibits and more/less strain than the other post-reunion albums).

Neil

 

[mad_taffer]

This album is definitely a grower.
The first time I heard Starblind I thought the chorus was really flat and uninspired, but after my 3rd listen through, I've actually been humming it all day long and can't wait to spin the CD again. I even think El Dorado is better than I gave it credit for originally. The chorus is pure Maiden, after all.

And I might be wrong about this, but did AMOLD chart higher than any Maiden CD for first week? I seem to remember that there was a lot of press about how high it debuted in the US.

 

[Jasonic]

Brave New World: 38,000
Dance of Death: 40,000
AMOLAD: 56,000
The Final Frontier: 65,000-70,000 (projected)

I wonder if touring BEFORE the album's release date contributed to this.

Anyhow, well done MAIDEN!!!!

 

[nomisofsiman]

And I might be wrong about this, but did AMOLD chart higher than any Maiden CD for first week? I seem to remember that there was a lot of press about how high it debuted in the US.

You are correct it debuted at 9. Whereas the previous high was "Somewhere in Time" at 10.

 

[nomisofsiman]

I wonder if touring BEFORE the album's release date contributed to this.

Anyhow, well done MAIDEN!!!!

I would imagine so, especially considering how much Bruce was plugging the new disc at times during the show.

 

[General Zod]

I know you were only comparing to the 80s numbers, but I thought it was extremely interesting to read the US first-week sales figures of their last 4 albums posted at Bmouth today:

Brave New World: 38,000
Dance of Death: 40,000
AMOLAD: 56,000
The Final Frontier: 65,000-70,000 (projected)

Has any other band in history doubled their sales between their 12th and 15th albums?

Wow... that is bizarre.

A large percentage, no doubt, but I still think your assumptions about that percentage might be a bit too high. Did you read the responses to your "ideal setlist" thread? There was a LOT of post-FotD material listed across those setlists.

Yes... but I completely discount it. We must consider the audience who responded to that thread. That audience of one that consists of people for whom Circus Maximus, Pagan's Mind, and Redemption count as household names. It is a group made up completely of outliers. Again, there's a reason the crowd explodes when they play "The Trooper". Because that's the song they came to hear.

...you know me, I *invented* "if I don't think it'll be worth my time, I'm not going to bother".

Neil's First Law of Music Appreciation says that music is "good" when an incoming sequence of sounds neatly fits the music receptors in the listener's brain. In other words, music can be neither good nor bad on its own; only when mixed with a listener's brain can the quality be measured. Neil's Second Law says that a listener's music receptors are in a constant state of flux, and the current state of that receptor bank is generally the result of all the accumulated music experiences the listener has had up until that moment. For example, listening to a bunch of AC/DC can dull the AC/DC music receptors, and brings the prog metal receptors to the fore, at which point the listener says "whoa, Dream Theater is awesome!" But then years of listening to prog metal clones can dull the Dream Theater receptors, and if Volbeat comes along at that moment, there can be a receptor match resulting in high appreciation.

Somehow it seems like my brain was just "ready" for this exact Iron Maiden album. Some of that is certainly due to my affinity for atmospheric and experimental music, but there also must be a certain amount of random luck involved for me to latch on to these particular melodies.

Nice description. I'd totally agree with this explanation.

 

[SavaRon]

Yeah, I'm completely baffled by the "wah wah, it's boring!!" song editors. I really wonder what kind of other music they listen to, and what would happen if they were forced to listen to some Isis, or Agalloch, or Drudkh, or Primordial, or any other bands that deal strongly in atmosphere and dynamics. Can boredom reach such intensity that it causes heads to explode, or would the death come quietly by way of coma?

I guess that's a little bit directed at me. I like all kinds of music and I actually love the intro to the album. I think it sets up TFF really well. Once you get to the second half of the album every song starts out very similar. It gets old very quick to my ears. I don't need the little prelude to the story of every song. I am not a lyric person either, so maybe that makes a difference. I haven't even looked at the lyrics. I just don't like the intro's to most of the songs.

Dee dee do dee dee da dee dee do dee dee da dee dee do dee dee daaaaaaaah....start song! That's what it sounds like to me. I don't like the way Bruce sings the melodies in those intros either.

 

[Rycher]

I wonder if touring BEFORE the album's release date contributed to this.

Anyhow, well done MAIDEN!!!!

Probably not, considering when they tour before an album is released, they usually only play the first single from the album. When they do a proper tour, they dump 5-7 new songs in the set.

I attribute it to the cheap first-week sales prices at Best Buy: $9.99, $11.99, etc.

 

[The Fiddler]

Yeah, I wonder if people mistake an intentional slide into a note as an unintentional error? So calling an unexpected melody "straining" is flat wrong, but I do think there are parts where his voice could legitimately be called "strained". However, I think that's largely intentional as well. From interviews, it sounds like they were even *more* serious about a "live" recording on this album than on the previous ones, which were already some of the least-polished records in the metal world. If you aren't doubling the vocals or doing and studio trickery to fix 'em up, yeah, they aren't going to sound like the polished stuff you hear on every other metal album. And I think that's awesome...it's a metal record, about death and other various things. When you sing, it *should* sound like you're straining from time to time, not like you're relaxing on your chaise lounge sipping a pina colada and being fanned by girls waving palm branches. This is the concept that, when taken to its extreme, gave us death and black metal. (I know I've made this point about some previous Maiden album as well, but I haven't gone back to check if TFF exhibits and more/less strain than the other post-reunion albums).Neil

Dead on, Neil. I stopped in to comment on just this, but you covered everything I wanted to say, largely the strain is intentional and that I love it when it used -- especially on the, "Mother of Mercy" chorus. I can't sit still while listening to that chorus - it's like the song is about implode my car's CD player -- and it's totally appropriate that Bruce sounds like he's holding on for dear life while bellowing out the chorus --

"Mo-------ther of Mercy...Angel of De--------ath...Angel of Pa---------in...Taking my last Brea----------th.

"The Talisman" is another great example.

I wouldn't change the pitch of one note of Bruce's lyrics on this disc. For those who want a processed version of Bruce's voice run through the computer and pitch/tone corrected, there are plenty of discs from the golden era to satisfy their needs.

For me, Bruce's vocals are as honest and natural as ever on this disc, and his (and Steve's) disregard for making everything sound vocally perfect allow for a very intimate feel to the presentation -- something I greatly appreciate.

 

[The Fiddler]

I just hope they don't get crazy and play the whole album on tour once it's out. :zombie:

I hope they do exactly just that!!! Seriously. Then play a couple of standards for the encore.

 

[Cheiron]

Wow... that is bizarre.

It is, but isn't. It is because we expect bands to have decreasing sales after they hit the height of their popularity. But it isn't when we consider that BNW came out in 2000, and this album came out in a year where metal'ish acts are high on the Billboards. Including bands that tour with Iron Maiden. Maiden had to kind of rebuild a fan base, as their old fans still might go see their shows, but they weren't purchasing the new albums.

 

[The Fiddler]

Maiden had to kind of rebuild a fan base, as their old fans still might go see their shows, but they weren't purchasing the new albums.

Speaking for myself -- a fan since 1981 who bought The Number of the Beast on cassette when he was 12 -- I have bought the four albums including/since Brave New World. Guessing I'm not alone either.

I love the classic maiden just as much as the modern maiden.

Edit: I do like the classic maiden a bit more, but to be sure, TFF is as enjoyable to me as anything they've done.

 

[jem777az]

Speaking for myself -- a fan since 1981 who bought The Number of the Beast on cassette when he was 12 -- I have bought the four albums including/since Brave New World. Guessing I'm not alone either.

I love the classic maiden just as much as the modern maiden.

You are correct in saying you're not alone. I've also purchased all the Maiden albums since Bruce and Adrian came back in the fold. In fact I own every single Iron Maiden cd, new and old.

 

[p1driftfiend]

Haven't had a chance to go thru the whole thread, but anyone else think the mix is a muddy mess?

On the way home from BB yesterday with the album I had to mess around with my car stereo to get the sound how I like it.

At home it was tolerable, but not too enjoyable on the "boom-box" I have.

At work, from my MP3 player, it is just horrible. I have Elvenking and Iron Maiden's FF loaded on there and the switch from Elvenking to IM is just like lowering the volume and throwing a blanket over the speakers.

Very muddy and way too much bass.

As for the songs, they're not bad, but I really dislike the solos. They just feel out of place, and are very annoying. I cringe at some of the notes and it just really kills the feel of the songs.

 

[The Fiddler]

Not true. It's a testament that they're just as visible to the public eye as ever. With songs appearing in Guitar Hero and Tony Hawk, shoes being put out by Vans, t-shirts being worn by teen pop stars, and Bruce Dickinson having his own radio show, I can't say I'm surprised.

You didn't mention in your list mainstream media (TV and radio). If Maiden is not getting exposure by those two tools, how can they now be as visible to the public eye as ever? When The Number of the Beast broke right when MTV was launched (1981), their videos and songs were quite commonplace on TV and commercial radio. And when you were watching TV or radio just for the heck of it back in the 80s, the videos and songs came to you. You didn't have to search for the music like you do today.