John Bush Is Lame And Greedy

Decided to drop in on this forum... first time ever.

Gotta say, I had a laugh in this thread. :tickled:

I have to say that John Bush is infinitely a better vocalist than Belladonna, regardless of how many records were sold. Anthrax just needs the right team behind them pushing. Bad business has affected 'em, I think.

They need to get on some good tours.
 
"John Bush aint the man fool, Joey Belladona was."

that is the funniest thing i've heard for a long time. LOL

john rules bigtime over joey fagadonna...

personally i don't download music. i have no reason to. i'd rather have the real thing with cool artwork etc.
 
Intersting read from last weeks Tribune about how much money bands really get paid.

Jamming to cover the balance sheet

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By Kevin Pang
Tribune staff reporter

August 24, 2003

Kill Hannah is living the rock 'n' roll dream. They signed a recording contract with Atlantic Records in 2002, local stations are playing their single "Kennedy" and they headlined a sold-out show recently at Metro--one of Chicago's most influential rock venues. Now they're just waiting for the rock 'n' roll lifestyle to kick in.

"Financially, we're living worse now than a year ago when we were unsigned," says lead singer Mat Devine, who founded the band in 1995. "But our threadbare lifestyle allows us to appreciate the good things. We feel like Leonardo DiCaprio on the Titanic, just totally thrilled to be on it."

The modern-day band is a small business as much as it is a musical venture. Fans are investors who purchase albums, T-shirts, pins and posters instead of company stock. Concert tours are business trips to lure prospective clientele.

"When bands get signed, it's like they won the lottery, and all they get is another lottery ticket," says Kill Hannah's manager, Stephen Hutton. "And if they're successful, it's like they'd won the lottery twice."

To become nationally recognized will require more work than it did to secure a record deal.

Success of their first record, "For Never and Ever," set for release Oct. 14, will be measured by how close they come to 100,000 sales. Hutton said more than 96 percent of records will not hit that benchmark. Less than 1 percent will be certified gold, meaning sales of 500,000. Going platinum is the Holy Grail--one million sales.

So potential breakout bands like Kill Hannah invest much of their time promoting themselves. On their off day last week, band members were outside the Congress Theatre after another band's concert, handing out fliers for their own show.

Guitarist Dan Wiese said at this point in their careers, every fan is integral to success. He recalls an Omaha show where only two people showed up. "It was the easiest show to swear off and not put any effort into it," Wiese said. "But we talked to the two afterwards, and they later drove to Des Moines to see us play. That's two more people that's going to buy our records."

To expand their visibility, the band recently performed for the first time in Grand Rapids, Mich., the second of three bands behind the headliner, nu-metal group Saliva. Kill Hannah not only wasn't paid but picked up other trip-related and show costs.

They spend $500 in rent each week on the van, not including the cost of gasoline. A single show's production costs can vary between $500 and $4,000 depending on use of special effects, band management said.

For most bands, T-shirts and other band paraphernalia sold during shows are the major source of income.

Say a shirt sells at a show for $15 and costs $7 to make. With an $8 gross, roughly 75 percent of it will go to the concert venue, manager and other incidentals. Divide what's left among five band members, and each makes about 40 cents from a T-shirt. On a good night, merchandise sales barely cover gas and lodging.

Kill Hannah, which boasts 14 varieties of shirts and more designs coming, claims it usually outsells other bands with whom it plays. Last year, Greg Corner, the tall, business-savvy bass guitarist, attended a T-shirt manufacturer's convention just to learn more about the trade.

He recently drove to Milwaukee to pick up an order of 812 T-shirts. "It's a tank of gas to drive up there, or it'll cost $100 for them to ship it down here. I'd rather save our money," Corner said.

While Corner never studied business in college, "I just fell into that role," he said. He started the band's merchandising company on the Internet several years ago.

While in the van during the three-hour trip, Corner calculates the band's finances on a spreadsheet program with his laptop. Band members insert a couple thousand logo pins, two at a time, into small plastic bags to sell that night for $2.

"I hear it from my friends all the time: I have to go to work every day and you guys get to go out on the road and have fun," guitarist Jon Radtke said. "They don't realize it's a job and there's lots of work involved."

The van, once used to transport senior citizens, has a mattress, a 13-inch television and duct tape covering a paneled door. There's enough room to stretch legs, but the cramped quarters mean someone is always contorted. Then add two crew members that handle sound systems, tuning guitars and driving.

When playing in a new city, Kill Hannah estimates that 10 percent of the audience at a given show will become fans, meaning they will join their mailing list, buy their record or tell a friend about them.

Their fan base includes more than 2,000 Kill Hannah Street Team volunteers, many of whom help post fliers and promote the band through word-of-mouth.

The band gets into Grand Rapids at 4 p.m., but the members do not realize they have arrived. Corner is checking artwork for their album on the laptop. Drummer Garret Hammond is lost in a bag of pretzels. Guitarist Jon Radtke has dozed off. Devine and Wiese are locked in the shoot-em-up video game "Halo" on their Xbox.

When they arrive at the venue, Hammond, who studied jazz in graduate school at the University of North Texas, lugs each part of his drum set to the stage while the crew takes care of the guitars. Hammond runs a music studio in his basement, teaches drum lessons and paints houses to supplement his income.

Sound check is cut short because the headlining band, Saliva, wants to set up. Kill Hannah gets only 30 seconds to play while the sound technician frantically adjusts settings.

Some band members go out to eat afterward. This day they have allotted themselves $8 each for meals. Some days, they skip dinner to save money.

Hours later, at 9 p.m., Kill Hannah finally takes the stage in a smoky, sticky room of 600.

The band has a loud and subversive look--untamed hair, smudged eyeliner. Fog machines and fluorescent lighting add to their dark, enigmatic flair. In the span of 10 songs, concertgoers who have never heard of the band are moving to their music, which is intensely melodic glam-rock over hefty beats.

Kill Hannah was a song title before it was the band's name. Depressed over the breakup with his college girlfriend, Hannah, Devine wrote the song and liked the title so much he adopted it as the band's name. And Hannah, now living in Switzerland, remains friends with Devine and is said to be flattered with her namesake.

Since the group's first performance in 1996, there have been several personnel changes, including the death of their original drummer. The current group has been together three years.

So why would they choose a job that pays less than flipping burgers?

"We're all college-educated. Tomorrow, we can take a job and make much more money," Devine said. "It's a huge risk we're taking, but it's a small sacrifice to do what you want to do."

Kill Hannah has yet to turn a profit. But record companies don't take that into account when signing bands to contracts because they focus on the music and the group's brand potential.

When bands are signed, the money paid up front is considered an advance. Bands don't make any money beyond the advance until record sales pay off the loan. Kill Hannah members won't disclose the amount of their advance.

But their manager says most groups sign for between $200,000 and $400,000. Subtract touring, recording and production costs, plus fees for the manager and lawyer, and stretch the money among four or five band members over several years, and what remains does not amount to rock-star riches.

"If you're doing this for money, then you're in the wrong business," Corner said.

For Kill Hannah, all of its revenues are pumped back into the band or used to pay down debt. Devine only recently repaid, with interest, a $500 loan a friend made in 1994.

Kill Hannah members live two lives and incur the costs of both. Not only do they have to pay Chicago-area housing costs, they also pick up lodging and food bills on the road, sometimes stretching for weeks at a time. Insurance payments are made on cars sitting in garages.

Most of the band members worked day jobs until they signed the record contract. As of last year, guitarist Dan Wiese worked at an Evanston industrial sales company. After one particular night show, he remembers standing in front of the mirror, rubbing makeup off his face so hard that his skin turned raw and purple. "It was more like a means to an end," Wiese said of his job.

Ever laid-back and business-like throughout the day, on stage they let loose a thrilling, body-flinging 45-minute set.

Longtime fan Nicole Manchester drove seven hours from Milwaukee to Grand Rapids to see the show and was upset at having missed the first five songs.

"We forgot the one-hour difference from central to eastern time zone," Manchester said, red-faced. What songs she didn't miss, she sang word for word.

Immediately after the band's closer, "Welcome to Chicago," Corner trots to the merchandising table. Like a salesman pitching cutlery at a county fair, a sweat-drenched Corner sells T-shirts and signs autographs.

Radtke, passing around a clipboard, collects 32 names for the band's e-mail list. About 11 p.m., Kill Hannah is still working the lobby. Devine snaps pictures of fans with his digital camera for their Web site.

The band quietly exits through the side door as Saliva angrily plays on. Kill Hannah members load instruments and merchandise into the van, parked in the shadows of Saliva's two tour buses. Some three hours later, the members bid each other goodnight.

"See you at rehearsal tomorrow," Devine reminds everyone.

Two days later, they will play in front of 1,100 people at Metro, the same Chicago club that served as a launching pad for The Smashing Pumpkins, Urge Overkill and R.E.M., groups that have left their mark on American music.

Kill Hannah hopes to be one of them.

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More online Links to the Web sites of and music by Kill Hannah and 7th Grade Underdog. www.chicagotribune.com/ business
 
Megarock, you're waiting for Joey "the Man" to reunite with Thrax? Didn't you hear, they were going to do a tour with Belladonna and Anthrax, and Joey sing some of the Thrax songs, and John singing the others, and they'd play Ball Of Confusion. Well, Joey "the Man" turned down the tour. Because he wasn't a full member again? No. How about because he was greedy. He wanted more money than Anthrax as a band total would get.

I myself downloaded and I went out and I bought the cds I liked. John doesn't have a problem with fans that do that. He has problems with the fans that won't pay ANYTHING for music.
 
Great story Badatta2ud, I found it very informative and enlightening. It's because of stories like that that I try to support local bands and check them out every now and then and try to promote them, because I know they work hard and if I'm having a good time as a result of them, I try to give them a little something back, mostly exposure.
 
Finally at least the majority of the posts are from folks that can type more than fuck, dildo and asshole!

First off, and I seem to have to repeat this often - I have not said the following:

Artists should not get paid for their work.
Downloading albums is ok.
Downloading is not stealing.

The purpose of my post was to express my disgust that yet another artist has jumped on the bandwagon of internet bashers - people who blame their misfortunes on the internet. If album sales drop it's the internet. If people are not going to movies it is because of the internet. If people start using too much toilet paper it's because of the internet.
Most of them do it at the urging of their record lables because it is the record companies who benefit the most from stopping the downloading spree going on - not the artists. Hell, even Anthrax themselves agreed that it is TOURING not ALBUM SALES where the bulk of their money comes from:

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/investing/20020624a.asp?prodtype=grn

The funny thing too is part of what I do is promote bands and I do it not only for free but use my own money to fund the operation. I am currently working with bands like Mest, Superjoint Ritual, Mojo Gurus, Conquest, Silent Edge, Story of the Year and others to promote their music and products to hard rock fans. I have spoken directly with many major artists and the cold hard facts are that musicians don't get shit for the work they do because of record sales.

If you want a band to make money you have to go to their concerts and buy their merchandise - shirts, hats, stickers or whatever. Buy that stuff and the artists actually sees a return. Buy the CD and nothing else and the only people getting rich are the fat bastards at their record label.

In reality if an artist took a full length CD and sold it online for $1.25 without involving the record company they would be making roughly DOUBLE than they do now selling the CD retail.

Since artist after artist has proven all this to be true, who really gives a shit about album sales except the record labels and the artists who are saying this shit because the record labels tell them it is the reason their albums are not selling.

So, thus the reason of the post - why does John or anyone in Anthrax - or anyone at all care about album sales and what the internet is doing to their financial situation. Maybe the artists need to start asking themselves why out of a $15.99 CD they are only getting .50 cents to 1.00 for their hard work and everyone else is getting the rest.

The internet downloaders are not the REAL thieves. Figure it out.
 
Hmmm, record sales = money for record label = money to support tour = money for band to make. Add to that: record sales = more publicity and media attention.

The band wouldn't make jack shit selling CDs for $1.25 off of their website because the band does not specialize in online marketing and wouldn't know what the hell they're doing. They have gone with their best alternative of having a record label sell their record.
 
megarock said:
Just think - there are people who play baseball who pitch 12 - 15 games a year and expect to be paid 60 million dollars for it. Getting paid is one thing - everyone deserves that. Who really deserves 60 million for working 15 days out of the year? Musicians have the same problem - they just expect to be rich and famous just because they are musicians.
Most starters in baseball start 20-30 games a year. Not 12-15. And 60 million would be a mutli-year contract. Not just one year. And just because you start one game a week in Baseball doesn't mean you don't work your ass off the rest of the year. They have to go through scouting reports every single day too and learn individual hitters. The vast majority of them have clauses in their contracts that prohibit them from doing "fun" things that could hurt them. Such as motorcycles and skiing. They train their asses off in the offseason. Go through all sorts of conditioning to keep in shape. The players that are the most productive are the ones that keep from booze and drugs 100%. I don't like posting in these philosophical debates because they're neverending. Yet I feel I hand to intervene. Speaking on behalf of having been a baller and I'm still a huge fan of baseball and the Orioles (yankees suck!!).

Now on the topic of music, if you go back 75 years back to the streets and the root of all modern music as we know it, musicians never made money. They were all bums playing the 12 bar blues and jazz. Pentatonic scales. They all had the cheapest dinkiest guitars, saxes, trumpets and bucket drums. They all did it for the love of music. I believe that Anthrax still do it for the love of the music. I don't think they have interests in being rich. They just want to be able to keep on doing what they love and have been doing for 20 years for many years to come. Now, I'm speaking on behalf of being a musician as well. I still do what I do for fun. I still have a real job to fall back on if it doesn't work. But I'm gonna keep on playing music because it what makes my heart beat.
 
megarock, you need to shut the fuck up and leave this message board and never think about or mention anything about Anthrax ever again, no one gives a shit about what you think. We're all tired of your lameass responses, I thought you weren't coming back to the board, that you were just gonna post once and be done with it. You probably come back every 10 minutes just to see if someone else is talking about you cuz you don't have a goddamn life, just go away like you originally said you would and leave TRUE Anthrax fans in peace.
 
Interesting. Very interesting.

You blast a band member on their own board and I guess the entire fan base of anthrax is here - all fucking five of the little fucking children who wouldn't know real metal if it bit them in their underaged ass.

Fuck you in the ass with a dildo. Fuck, is that the best you can do? Have you already run out of smart assed comments that you have to resort to repeating the same bullshit over and over again?

Fuck, I can post like you fucking morons?

Quit fucking your dog in the ass and pay attention because you should realize you're a fucking loser with absolutely no fucking life.

Wow, really - look at it - message after message and each one looks like they are typed by the same person. Fuck you, fuck you and fuck you.
Shit, my grandma could come up with a better line than your weak ass shit replies.

ANTHRAX SUCKS BIG DILDO FUCKING ASS AND SO DO THEIR FIVE OR SIX FANS.

GO BUY SOME MORE OF THEIR SHITTY ASS ALBUMS YOU FUCKING GOAT NUT LICKING BASTARDS. THEY NEED THE MONEY TO MAKE ANOTHER SHITTY FUCKING ALBUM.

Ok, all five of you can post fuck you in the ass with a dildo yet again to show just how fucking smart you really are. Then, when you're done get back in class before the teacher tells your momma.

Oh, and FUCK YOU.
 
megarock said:
Quit fucking your dog in the ass and pay attention because you should realize you're a fucking loser with absolutely no fucking life.

Who's the loser? You said in your first post you would not be back. It's obvious that we don't agree with you, and that you have nothing else to contribute here. I think your the one with no life, otherwise why would you keep coming back. So go away already.
 
megarock said:
Interesting. Very interesting.

You blast a band member on their own board and I guess the entire fan base of anthrax is here - all fucking five of the little fucking children who wouldn't know real metal if it bit them in their underaged ass.

Fuck you in the ass with a dildo. Fuck, is that the best you can do? Have you already run out of smart assed comments that you have to resort to repeating the same bullshit over and over again?

Fuck, I can post like you fucking morons?

Quit fucking your dog in the ass and pay attention because you should realize you're a fucking loser with absolutely no fucking life.

Wow, really - look at it - message after message and each one looks like they are typed by the same person. Fuck you, fuck you and fuck you.
Shit, my grandma could come up with a better line than your weak ass shit replies.

ANTHRAX SUCKS BIG DILDO FUCKING ASS AND SO DO THEIR FIVE OR SIX FANS.

GO BUY SOME MORE OF THEIR SHITTY ASS ALBUMS YOU FUCKING GOAT NUT LICKING BASTARDS. THEY NEED THE MONEY TO MAKE ANOTHER SHITTY FUCKING ALBUM.

Ok, all five of you can post fuck you in the ass with a dildo yet again to show just how fucking smart you really are. Then, when you're done get back in class before the teacher tells your momma.

Oh, and FUCK YOU.

Blah, blah, blah. Boy oh boy you sure showed us. I guess we're all just gonna have to destroy our Anthrax stuff, because some dude that has overbearing opinions told us to. (Sarcasm Off)

Dude, I thought you said you were going to go away? Stop taunting us with that hope, only to come back! You do know that the more you post your inane, pointless trash-talk, the more that everyone who's reading this (including the lurkers & the folks who haven't even signed up but just choose to read) are prone to think that you're some stupid shiteater that has nothing better to do than to bitch about something that mildly upsets them. How much time do you go on about this when you're not on the board? Holy shit dude, obsess much? In the time that you've spent coming here and bitching us out over the fact that we like Anthrax (We don't come to your personal board for the bands you dig and trash them!) you could've found a job to pay for the mp3s you're scamming.

Dude, you are such a waste of our time, and I feel rather foolish even responding to you. Methinks that you should be treated like the 700 Club - IGNORED. Fuck off.