John Howard, the filthy liar

[Goreripper]

You say the bludgers at work lost their jobs. Where they really bludgers, or is that just your opinion? And if they were just bludging, they could have been sacked even before the IR laws came in. Employers use unfair dismissal laws as an excuse for drops in productivity, but the reailty is that if workers are constantly late, can't do their jobs properly or they're irresponsible or in breach of the workplace's basic work guidelines, they could be fired. Even the unions would accept that. ALmost every disgruntled sacked worker will grumble about "unfair dismissal", but 98% of them would have been sacked for a pretty fair reason. The unfair dismissal laws was nothing but a furphy that employer groups threw up so Howard would let them do whatever they wanted. Unfair dismissal laws were established to stop bosses sacking people for taking a day off sick, or for turning up a few minutes late once in a while, or because an employee didn't see eye-to-eye with them over some form of legitimate concern, like workplace safety. Now, a boss can fire someone for any reason whatsoever. Tell me again how that's supposed to stimulate the economy? What if your boss, Danallica, decides tomorrow that he doesn't like your hair, or you make some kind of fuck up? He could arsehole you just like that, and there's nothing you can do about it. Remember, the threat of summary dismissal is now hanging over the head of every single person who works at a place where there is less than 100 employees.

Employers have the responsibility to hire the right people in the first place, not just put on a bunch of young blokes that may not be very reliable or good workers, just because older people have to be paid more. If more employers hired the right people, with the right conditions and pay in the first place, they would save themselves a fortune regardless of how high their payroll is. Happy workers are productive workers. Workers that are too scared to take a day off even if they're just about dead from the flu because they'll lose a day's pay if they don't show up can't possibly be good for anyone's business.

 

[Dän]

You say the bludgers at work lost their jobs. Where they really bludgers, or is that just your opinion? And if they were just bludging, they could have been sacked even before the IR laws came in. Employers have the responsibility to hire the right people in the first place, not just put on a bunch of young blokes that may not be very reliable or good workers, just because older people have to be paid more. If more employers hired the right people, with the right conditions and pay in the first place, they would save themselves a fortune regardless of how high their payroll is. Happy workers are productive workers. Workers that are too scared to take a day off even if they're just about dead from the flu because they'll lose a day's pay if they don't show up can't possibly be good for anyone's business.

well they werent good workers, its my opinion, but they werent good.

sure an employer has the responsibility to employ good workers, but they dont always know how good they are till they start, by that time they're fucked

 

[Goreripper]

No they're not. If they're lazy, constantly late, irresponsible or simply can't do the job properly, they can be sacked. If you read all of my post, you'd see that I already said that.

 

[Dän]

No they're not. If they're lazy, constantly late, irresponsible or simply can't do the job properly, they can be sacked. If you read all of my post, you'd see that I already said that.

i did read all your post, i dont know the ins and outs of it, i know that they couldnt be sacked before and now they could be which is great

 

[chrisvp]

You raise some good points, and i appreciate that your not like the normal tools with whom i debate with on political matters who call me a nazi then storm off because they dont know fuck all.

I look at things from an individual perspective, since the IR my pay has gone up and the bludgers at work have lost their job and they cant claim unfair dismissal, which cost the company $ to fight in court, the result a better and more efficient working environment. I understand that it is likely that some will suffer and i dont think that is acceptable, there should be a system whre you can have a full time job and be able to live a comfortable life with your annual/sick leave etc... and im not overly happy with the fact that certain aspects are being taken away from the worker.

I live at home hence dont have a mortgage or any thing else like that so i am lucky atm so alot of those things dont affect me. i Guess its about trying to find a rational middle ground which neither party offers at the present time, it is just as important to have minimum wages high enogh as it is to not have them to high, which merely results in higher UE

I like a healthy debate and know that everyone is entitled to their opinion epsecially when it is something as concerning as this whole IR issue , dont worry about flaming from me , I'd rather have an intelligent discussion instead
To be honest with you I would have rather seen my supposed $10 per week tax cut " wow " have gone into helping people who are struggling etc and people like a good friend of mine who is a single mum and always has made ends meet yet still is singled out by this government for being a quiet disgrace like many other out there , who shouldnt have to stress about finding work and being looked down upon by the government .
Honestly these times are very scary and although it may seem that you are doing ok now , many of us here are ok , its the future and our childrens future thats the concern , not meaning to get all deep etc , but really what is a person who is raising a family , running a car because they need one to get to work , whos paying the mortgage and paying for fuel etc meant to think when something like these IR laws are happening especially when it comes from a very conservative government like we have today.
Actually makes me think how much did the government sell gas to china per litre for , I bet my ass it would not be for the supposed market price, just a quick thought .
Anyways carry on gentlemen

 

[Goreripper]

I spent my tax cut on petrol.

 

[Goreripper]

i did read all your post, i dont know the ins and outs of it, i know that they couldnt be sacked before and now they could be which is great

Just remember this: employers don't run businesses for their employees. They run them for themselves.

 

[chrisvp]

I spent my tax cut on petrol.

heh heh I spent my 10 bucks on fuel as well and it didnt even touch the sides , I run a nissan 4 cylinder heh heh , just enough to tickle the fuel gauge

 

[Dän]

I like a healthy debate and know that everyone is entitled to their opinion epsecially when it is something as concerning as this whole IR issue , dont worry about flaming from me , I'd rather have an intelligent discussion instead
To be honest with you I would have rather seen my supposed $10 per week tax cut " wow " have gone into helping people who are struggling etc and people like a good friend of mine who is a single mum and always has made ends meet yet still is singled out by this government for being a quiet disgrace like many other out there , who shouldnt have to stress about finding work and being looked down upon by the government .
Honestly these times are very scary and although it may seem that you are doing ok now , many of us here are ok , its the future and our childrens future thats the concern , not meaning to get all deep etc , but really what is a person who is raising a family , running a car because they need one to get to work , whos paying the mortgage and paying for fuel etc meant to think when something like these IR laws are happening especially when it comes from a very conservative government like we have today.
Actually makes me think how much did the government sell gas to china per litre for , I bet my ass it would not be for the supposed market price, just a quick thought .
Anyways carry on gentlemen

I would have sooner seen the $ of those tax cuts been put into hospitals etc rather than back into my pocket.

The thing is, im not convinced that out government would put in new laws that would actually make the country worse off, it just doesnt make sense. Maybe this all has been a mistake like some say, but i still dont think that a government would make a mistake as big as this. I guess you really have to give it time before we see what to make of all of it. This could be, along with the leadership rows, be the straw that breaks the libs back though, despite the fact that labour is not all that great atm, i really cant see how libs are not going to lose the next election.

 

[Dän]

Just remember this: employers don't run businesses for their employees. They run them for themselves.

I agree, and why wouldnt they

 

[Kem]

15% interent rates, try buying a fucking house with that.

As opposed to now? Interest rates might be down, but the property market has totally ballooned in the last 5 years or so.

And if I understand right, the government holds very little to no sway over how low interest rates go.

I can't believe how many people fell for that last election. They thought if they didn't vote Liberal all of a sudden interest rates would go up.
Come. On. People.

Plus all these rubbish election promises from the Libs about keeping the Australian economy going strong. The government alone can't control the economy. And a 'good economy' doesn't mean all the little people aren't hurting.

The only reason the Liberals keep winning elections is because the majority of people are stupid and/or and easily scared.

 

[Celestial-Todd]

I'd say more easily scared.... ie, Howard calling an election less then a month after September 11. Do you really want to change governments and leave us defenseless against all those terrible muslims?

 

[Vomicum]

He's a fucking tosser.

 

[Dän]

As opposed to now? Interest rates might be down, but the property market has totally ballooned in the last 5 years or so.

And if I understand right, the government holds very little to no sway over how low interest rates go.

I can't believe how many people fell for that last election. They thought if they didn't vote Liberal all of a sudden interest rates would go up.
Come. On. People.

Plus all these rubbish election promises from the Libs about keeping the Australian economy going strong. The government alone can't control the economy. And a 'good economy' doesn't mean all the little people aren't hurting.

The only reason the Liberals keep winning elections is because the majority of people are stupid and/or and easily scared.

interest rates arent controlled by the gov, your right, the reserve bank does, but the government, using various policies, can manipulate the outcome of interest rates. So it is afair to say that irs wont go up alot under the libs

true, a large number of voters are stupid, i mean, around 40% voted for labor in the last election

...


i kid i kid

 

[Dän]

He's a fucking tosser.

great post ... no, really, i mean it, fantastic, bet it took you a while to think of that one you cunt

 

[Dän]

I'd say more easily scared.... ie, Howard calling an election less then a month after September 11. Do you really want to change governments and leave us defenseless against all those terrible muslims?

of course you dont want change after a terror attack, good voting strategy by Howard

 

[Winmar]

I just think that Liberals are the most fit for the leadership position.

That's a very similar stance to mine, the only difference being that I think the Liberals are the most fit for the guillotine. Hurrah!

These IR laws are perhaps the most disgraceful thing this country's seen, certainly in recent times.

Interest rates might be lower than in Keating's time, but Keating's rates were also lower than those when Howard was treasurer. Interest payments are still fucking massive now, thanks to this investment-fuelled housing boom that has fucked things up for anyone who doesn't already have a house.

As I've said in the past, if it weren't for a couple of family concerns and St Kilda Football Club, I'd be applying for jobs overseas now.

 

[Dän]

I think the fact is that Labor cant run the country to save their balls, theyve fucked up big time before and theyll do it again, they just cant govern. The first 5 or so yrs will be great then there will be no $ left and we'll be fucked again

 

[chrisvp]

I would have sooner seen the $ of those tax cuts been put into hospitals etc rather than back into my pocket.

The thing is, im not convinced that out government would put in new laws that would actually make the country worse off, it just doesnt make sense. Maybe this all has been a mistake like some say, but i still dont think that a government would make a mistake as big as this.

I guess you really have to give it time before we see what to make of all of it. This could be, along with the leadership rows, be the straw that breaks the libs back though, despite the fact that labour is not all that great atm, i really cant see how libs are not going to lose the next election.

Some interesting points you have mentioned there about the government putting in new laws that would make the country worse off , its not the country with these IR laws that is always affected , its the common person who just wants to work and live the Australian dream ( family house yadda yadda ) , its the normal person who is targeted here that will be worse off , make no mistake , if the IR laws were going to give people more money in their pockets would you seriously think the government would push it so far and up the arse of most people.
I remember the gst argument of " this new tax will effectively stop the black market and tradespeople doing cash jobs " , now most of the tradespeople I know are stuck in a situation where many people only want to pay cash and the cashy business is bigger than before not forgetting most of the "hidden taxes " are still there etc etc etc etc etc .

Funnily enough there is not much of a difference in any of the pollies is there , so yeah either way we are screwed , its just a matter of if you want lube or not heh heh

 

[Kem]

That is true though. I don't think Beazley could run this country to save his life. I'd like to see the Opposition actually come up with some original policies, rather than just slagging off what the government does. But I'll still probably always vote Labour They just need a more effective leader.