KNOWING your room VS. BUYING your room

[jipchen]

I think knowing your room and the problem zones doesn't help that much.
First, you have to get a good feel on what exactly is wrong in the room, knowing "it's bad" does not help.
If you "know your room", let's say you've got problems at certain areas but it's not like you're going to hear e.g. buried frequencies.
Only thing you can do is somehow avoid those, or make a cut / boost in those areas but you still have no real control over what you're doing in that range.
Simply because you can't hear it.

I'm so looking forward to my treated room(s), because in my old room I mixed until it sounded good, and then it sounded far worse in like every other room.
Even if you think you know your room, you'll mix so it sounds good in your particular room. But it probably won't translate well on different (or even "good") rooms.

I really do not understand how one could invest thousands of dollars in gear, but not invest in room treatment. Also, if you're going the DIY route, it's not expensive at all..
You mix with your ears, don't you? It's kinda obvious to me that a proper monitoring situation thus is the most important link in the chain.

Plus I feel like a good sounding live/recording room has an even bigger influence on the final result.

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

You're claiming you won't ever need it without even trying it?! What kind of a claim is that? How can you know you don't need something if you haven't even tried it?

This is very simple, I've always been happy with my mixes, but I used to take 2 days to finish 100% one mix (then follow up the rest of the Album/EP or whatever), I even had to A/B with my headphones but now with my room fully treated and accurate I get a 100% finished mix in 3 / 4 hours without EVER needing to even check my headphones for the low-end, simply no need.

Before the low-end was all over the place, peaks and nulls, I couldnt for the live of me hear the bass, I could hear it, but all I heard was a cloudy muddy POS, no notes, no definition at all. Depth, ha, that's a funny one, I couldn't even get a simple reverb right without constantly A/B'ing... Now with a treated room, like a pop rock mix I posted a week ago or something on "RMM" section, really atmospheric and ambient stuff, got all that right on the first go, because you can hear every single nuance and subtle details... that is the main thing, you think it's fine know because (no offence intended) you're oblivious to it, but when you try a completely treated room you'll see what I and some people here mean.
A person thinks they're satisfied with what they have until they get to know better and once you get to "taste" the best you can't go back to listening in a shit room

 

[waltz mastering]

There have been many successful recording done in less than ideal acoustically treated control rooms (Motown, Abbey Road, Ardent) Most likely the engineer knowing how to get the best from what they have. On the other hand having a treated/accurate room will help take the guess work out of the equation for the uninitiated.

 

[darthjujuu]

nigga you got 27 foot ceilings, that's why the shit sounds good. my room will make any monitors sound HORRIBLE no matter how much stupid auralex foam i put up.

 

[John_C]

Treated, well set up room > non-treated, badly set up room

good engineer >>>>> bad engineer

good music >>>>>>>>>>>>> bad music




as a side note, personally i get really pissed off in a bad room as i just can't hear the same level of detail as i normally can. It's frustrating and means i'm constantly left guessing as to what's really going on. However, i've learned to work around it in rooms that i know well.

 

[NSGUITAR]

nigga you got 27 foot ceilings, that's why the shit sounds good. my room will make any monitors sound HORRIBLE no matter how much stupid auralex foam i put up.

Haha


27 foot ceilings make things sound good?!

 

[John_C]

Haha


27 foot ceilings make things sound good?!

Well it's always nice not to have to think about phase distortion from the ceiling......

 

[NSGUITAR]

Well it's always nice not to have to think about phase distortion from the ceiling......

I guess. But the echo is sooooo annoying!

 

[Star Ark]

Monitoring is everything. When a fan listens to music that is what they are doing, MONITORING.


If the people making the record aren't really listening carefully to what they are making then when a fan listens to it....well it's not going to be very good.

Monitoring is listening. If a producer can't hear the song properly, how is the fan going to?

 

[egan.]

If a producer can't hear the song properly, how is the fan going to?

Compressed, and on ear buds?

 

[MarcM]

but the problem with bad rooms is..
you cant hear certain frequencies if your room is poorly treated.
and certain degrees in panning are lost aswell

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/atta...coustics-hearing-your-room-20-400hz-45sec.aif

listen to this frequency sweep
if you hear dips, peaks, phasing, or even moving freqs while the sweep plays on quicktime (recommended ), then you have problems with your room

another good idea is to download Fuzzmeasure. its free and all you need is an omni directional mic and it tells you what your listening position is picking up. its really accurate.
every room is different and results will vary with even the smallest changes.
rooms do make a difference.
it helps you understand whats going on.
and it really shows you what you are listening to.

if your room is shit, your mixes will sound like someting else in other sound systems.
you dont need auratone mixing cubes, computer speakers, ipod headphones or all that nonsense.

have good monitors and good treatment.
if your smart and knowledgeable, it can be VERY inexpensive

 

[JeffTD]

You are really, really fucking hard to give advice to - do you realize that?

 

[Aaron Smith]

Nick, I'm pretty floored by how many people have given you good advice and made a strong case in favor of acoustic treatment, yet you haven't already come to the conclusion that you should treat your room as soon as possible.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

I guess it's more of a "...but I can't be arsed to, and I'm trying to find some good excuses to justify that" scenario. Even if some people successfully work in a bad environment, it doesn't mean it's better to have a bad environment than a good one.

Honestly, it's like people recommending NS10's for someone's first (and only) set of monitors just because countless of hit records were mixed on them. They're still crap monitors in the end, and way overpriced in the second hand market.

 

[John_C]

Back off people...... someone questioned the status quo, no need to get all rude about it.

Also, the title of the thread is KNOWING your room vs BUYING your room
You can never buy the perfect room, knowing a rooms weaknesses is always going to be vital unless you're that nutter in the brown diffuser mix room

Still, room treatment is great and tbh just get off your arse and do it! It makes listening to music nicer at the very least!

 

[NSGUITAR]

You are really, really fucking hard to give advice to - do you realize that?

Yes. I'm sorry about that.

I'd just like to be 120% sure about something before I drop thousands of dollars on it. Healthy argument isn't a bad thing, and I was really just looking to think of different scenarios to argue different viewpoints so I could learn the in and outs of it all. Trick I learned in a psyche class.

And also, like I'd said, I still have had more people argue that acoustic treatment isn't necessary, as long as you know your room well.. So, naturally I side with that, however you guys are convincing me to get some treatment.. Either way I can't right now because I'm 99% sure that this room is untreatable.. Unless there's some geniuses out there that could tell me otherwise.

 

[Mesa4x12er]

Yes. I'm sorry about that.

I'd just like to be 120% sure about something before I drop thousands of dollars on it. Healthy argument isn't a bad thing, and I was really just looking to think of different scenarios to argue different viewpoints so I could learn the in and outs of it all. Trick I learned in a psyche class.

And also, like I'd said, I still have had more people argue that acoustic treatment isn't necessary, as long as you know your room well.. So, naturally I side with that, however you guys are convincing me to get some treatment.. Either way I can't right now because I'm 99% sure that this room is untreatable.. Unless there's some geniuses out there that could tell me otherwise.

Knowing your room can only get you so far. If you can't hear something, you can't hear it. In my untreated room I would know that when I can hear certain frequencies well then there is too much of it... BUT all I could really do is make sure the level wasn't crazy. Hard to sculpt something you can't hear.

When I was asking these questions someone put it in a really understandable way that helped me get it. Yes you can paint blindfolded but how much better would your painting be if you could actually see what it was you were painting.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Yes. I'm sorry about that.

I'd just like to be 120% sure about something before I drop thousands of dollars on it. Healthy argument isn't a bad thing, and I was really just looking to think of different scenarios to argue different viewpoints so I could learn the in and outs of it all. Trick I learned in a psyche class.

And also, like I'd said, I still have had more people argue that acoustic treatment isn't necessary, as long as you know your room well.. So, naturally I side with that, however you guys are convincing me to get some treatment.. Either way I can't right now because I'm 99% sure that this room is untreatable.. Unless there's some geniuses out there that could tell me otherwise.

It isn't necessary to spend thousands of dollars in treatment to fix the most crucial areas. Spend your money wisely and $500 will get you lots and lots of material to build bass traps and broadbands.

Maybe you could draw your room and give us the dimensions so we might come up with some easy improvements?

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

Yes. I'm sorry about that.

I'd just like to be 120% sure about something before I drop thousands of dollars on it. Healthy argument isn't a bad thing, and I was really just looking to think of different scenarios to argue different viewpoints so I could learn the in and outs of it all. Trick I learned in a psyche class.

And also, like I'd said, I still have had more people argue that acoustic treatment isn't necessary, as long as you know your room well.. So, naturally I side with that, however you guys are convincing me to get some treatment.. Either way I can't right now because I'm 99% sure that this room is untreatable.. Unless there's some geniuses out there that could tell me otherwise.

thousands of dollars?! what? I built 10 huge broadband absorbers for like 20quid each or something

 

[NSGUITAR]

thousands of dollars?! what? I built 10 huge broadband absorbers for like 20quid each or something

Damn! That's quite impressive.

I'll scan the setup for you guys here pretty soon