So are you basically saying that any set of values has a certain set of musical expressions.....formulas, methods, etc. that go with it? As in satanist ideology....which is what I assume you're referring to in your own beliefs, uses minor scales and has "hateful" sounding music?
This is where I don't understand. Why do "satanist" values go with "hateful" music. I understand that much of Black Metal is hateful music, but the music of Black Metal doesn't define the values of Satanism, or any set of beliefs, it just is music made, and many bands who make it hold a certain set of beliefs, which they try to connect to their music as much as possible. As far as I understand that concept of Satanism, they have no hateful values. In fact, as I understand it, Satanism is supposedly a positive way of seeing the world and should make an individual happy. So why do you say that certain ideologies are defined by certain musical patterns? Do you mean instead that this is how these ideologies are most commonly expressed, or something else? And on the same token, since Satanism is supposed to reflect the opposite of values as Christianity, would this make music reflecting Christian beliefs have to be happy? Much of Christian "metal" is certainly not this way.
Firstly, I'm not a Satanist at all, just to clear that up. Nor am I in favour of going back to the primitive traditional age as some people have suggested in the past. Some of our advances over the last couple of millenia have been highly beneficial. I simply want these to be integrated into a traditional, less harmful value system.
Secondly, a great deal more than 50% of black metal isn't hateful, some is uplifting, hopeful, rousing, romantic, alienating, reflective, etc etc. In a sense, I do mean that it's how certain aspects of the mindset are commonly expressed - the sense that they have been so for a long, long time to the point where we're socially conditioned, and possibly chemically conditioned, for them to be representative of those aspects to our minds. But 'representative' is probably the wrong word, because the music isn't simply symbolic, it is a raw expression of the mindset - basically, it is the mindset. BM is anti-Christian, it isn't necessarily expressing hate for Christianity.
And I guess I belief the opposite of you in terms of good music. An artists beliefs as a person will make me choose whether or not to respect that person as an individual, but it really has no bearing on my respect for their music. If you know what "black metal" sounds like, I believe you can write it just as well no matter what your ideologies are.
You're still thinking in terms of stricter political viewpoints. It's not necessarily their 'beliefs', it might not even be their conscious state of mind. I judge a piece of art without reading interviews, I don't care about a band's conscious beliefs - or at least, it has no conscious effect on my interpretation of their recordings. I love my book-analogies so here's one: When your teacher interprets a line in a play in some way, he can't be 'wrong', but with more knowledge of literary content's relationship with language he will come closest to what the line actually means, regardless of whether the playwright consciously intended it to mean it that way.
I consider sound to be just another language which has inherent meaning contextually that renders an artist's intent irrelevant.
I also think it's impossible to passionately express something that directly conflicts with oneself, but if a Christian did express something that sounded like BM with conviction, it would be a little bit like two words sounding the same but actually meaning entirely different things (deer, dear). Ergo it wouldn't be black metal.
But doesn't everyone with strong beliefs think they have the greatest knowledge and understanding of reality. Everyone with strong beliefs thinks that they have the most logical worldview. I guess this is what you meant. But again, I don't see how you can hear something that doesn't lyrically express an ideology and decide if it is congruent with your own ideology. Maybe you could elaborate on this?
I think I used the word 'values', not 'ideology', but I use it as quite a broad term. Maybe I should just say 'oneself'. I happen to be a person with strong values, so things that are congruent with myself have to be congruent with my values or they disgust me.
However, objective importance is in context to the 'whole' - the world, so I figure that objectively the 'best' piece will appeal most to the person who is defined by the 'best' worldview. I consider my worldview the best - I consider my music the best. People think of this negatively these days - as 'arrogance', but actually it's just having strong, well-defined values, as I said before.
Do you or Guardian of Darkness really mean that Bach's music means less to you because he had beliefs different from you and viewed the world differently than you do? And I don't mean Bach as a person, but Bach completely as a musical entity. Of course, your argument contends that ideology and music are inseparable, which certainly clashes with my argument. An artist's ideological beliefs certainly do not affect my views on their music, only possibly on them as people. Only an artist's music or musical views can change my opinion on them as a musical artist. Of course your argument states that musical and ideology are always together, but I won't mention that again.
To fully respond to this would be repeating myself I think, but I will say that I have a certain element of respect for anyone who can innovate technically to express themselves more fully, but as musicians, not necessarily as idealists. Listening to some complex compositions give me nothing but an admiration of their musical prowess.
Sorry if that was poorly formed, I'm not nearly as good a writer as you are.
Not at all, you ask intelligent questions in a way that is better described as 'discussion' than 'argument', I appreciate that. I tried to respond in the same way.
