NineFeetUnderground said:
first of all, most black metal bands ripped off darkthrone, you expect a 2nd wave norwegian black metal band to be "original"?
Yes, to be worthwhile, I expect bands not to be second-rate imitations of other bands (what a concept!). I know that doesn't matter much to people like you, but for those of us who aren't trying to substitute our album collections for a penis, this is something of a concern.
you could pose the same argument to just about any norwegian act which wasnt part of the black circle from the get go then.
Except it isn't actually true - as Aeternus, Ildjarn, Gorgoth and the even the excreable Dimmu Borgir (who at least suck entirely on their own merits) amply prove.
and no, im not bringing up the grammies in a context of originality...but the validity.
What 'validity'? It's a mainstream awards show - these are, by definition, commercial whore fests.
you think most of those cold meat industry records bands were the first to do those sounds anyway
Depends on the act - Mortiis wasn't terribly original, Aghast was.
and as if ANY of them are completely paralleled to an Ulver disc.
Did I say they 'completely paralleled' Ulver? I just pointed out that Ulver ripped a lot of these bands off for bits and pieces of the
Themes....
ildjarn had only one EP released at the time which was even worth bringing up
By March of 1996 (when
Nattens Madrigal, the Ulver album in question, was released), Ildjarn had already released two full-lengths, two EP's, and three demo recordings, all fleshing out the same basic sound.
...and frankly wasnt much like bergtatt or especially the vargnatt material at all.
And no one implied that it did - the earliest incarnations of Ulver found the band deep in the throes of Darkthrone worship. You really should try actually reading what other people write
before you respond to them.
ildjarn quickly went downhill from there
Ildjarn remained consistently brilliant up through
Strength and Anger, after that, the drop off was fairly precipitous (with the exception of
Hardangervidda, which was great) - but then again, considering the 5 year layoff between
Strength and Anger and the next release, that's hardly surprising.
and to imply that Ulver were conciously ripping him off at any point after that is ludicrous considering how far above and beyond Ulver were to just about any band in that scene musically at that point anyway.
Certainly they had technical skills at their disposal that some of the other bands of the period didn't (chiefly Burzum and Ildjarn - though most of the other major bands of the period were at least their equals as players, and some, like Emperor and Immortal, were clearly MORE skilled, but that's neither here nor there), but it's hardly relevant as they weren't making use of those skills in their recordings. Instead, their actual records were technically simple and aurally lo-fi in the vein of the minimalist artists they were aping. Ulver simply never were first tier players in black metal, and, despite what their metal blinkered fans think, they're not first tier players in trip hop either.
first time i've seen NFU getting some serious competetion in a debate
