LANEY Amp + Boss GT-8 = Opeth Cabling?

[audiogerät]

hey opethians!

opeth uses laney and boss-gt.

which cabling is akerfeldt using?


principal question: is it necessary to buy an expensive tubeamp to use boss-gt8? i mean, boss simulates tubes, I could also use a full range active speaker or a roland jc-120 (but it's also expensive). what sense does a classic guitar amp make? with an active speaker I just need 2 cables und the setting "output line/phones"). all other settings (EQ, ...) can I do with boss-gt8!
your opinions please!!

do you use boss-gt8 (or 6)?? if yes, what amp and speaker do you use??



thank you guys and girls!


greets, rob

 

[AnTz0r]

give it a try and decide yourself

the tubes gives coloring though, even when not overdriven. and speaker cabinets color the sound as well. you're never gonna get the *same* sound with an active speaker. if it's a decent sound, decide for yourself.

 

[xDetonatorx]

Laneys are not considered "expensive tube amps". They are low to middle of the road priced british voiced amps, and are quite a strange choice for amplifying digital preamp units such as the GT8. Remember that Opeth only use the Boss stuff live for the convenience factor. It would make much more sense to run the unit into a good tube or SS poweramp with lots of clean headroom and a full spectrum frequency range, or even better, run them direct to the PA system. Since they use IEMs (in ear monitors) live, there is really no point in having a cranked amp on stage.

 

[affinityband]

laneys are cheap as fuck for what you get. also, it hardly makes a difference what amp you use with a gt8, it will pretty much sound the same.
I could either use my lil 15 watt marshall or my laney head n cab and it sounds pretty similar.
only time it will sound different is if you bypass to use the amps overdrive. which is actually pretty great, but i can never be bothered to adjust all my other settings to compensate for the gain settings on the amp. I turn my gain right down and let the gt8 do the work, i get a decent sound out of it now, but when i first got it i struggled to get anything decent out of it because there are so many combinations of settings. i believe quite a few people find this a problem too.

 

[Xarthaz]

I understand your concern for having a good tube power amp, but i gotta call bullshit on its importance if you dont use the distortion of the amp itself.Power amps do two things:
1. filter the signal, this can be very accurately emulated with eq
2. distort the signal. if youre running on a clean channel then this obviously doesnt happen(the tube voodoo guys say that some amount of signal sweetening and whatnot does happen, dont believe this, its marketing bullshit to get people buy overpriced tube-whatever)

You would have way more flexibility and way easier to transport stuff by using a software or hardware power amp and speaker cabinet emulator and the sound would be just as good(that is, if the speakers of the PA are good enough). As for cables, they just work as filters basically so no point in wasting a lot of money on good cables when you could just compensate for a crappy 1$ one by adding more treble with the eq.

 

[MixGrafix]

Laneys are not considered "expensive tube amps". They are low to middle of the road priced british voiced amps, and are quite a strange choice for amplifying digital preamp units such as the GT8. Remember that Opeth only use the Boss stuff live for the convenience factor. It would make much more sense to run the unit into a good tube or SS poweramp with lots of clean headroom and a full spectrum frequency range, or even better, run them direct to the PA system. Since they use IEMs (in ear monitors) live, there is really no point in having a cranked amp on stage.

I think this guy actually know what he is talking about!

 

[aprilethereal251]

Perhaps this link will help you clear up some questions you have about the Opeth rig.

http://www.guitarmessenger.com/sites/lessons/artist_masterclass/mikael_akerfeldt/gear.html

 

[KingVEE]

of course tubes, and cabs color your tone, every amp will sound different even though you are driving it with 1 or multiple effects/pedals. i recal mike saying that he used the laney's for his clean because he liked the tone, and of course if you use an amp for cleans.....you might as well use it to power your distorion since its sitting on the stage, plus a tube amp will give your digital modeler a little bit of an organic tone. that said go and try a few amps for yourself.

 

[Shezmen]

check out the equipment-opeth gear thread, it's all written inside.

shez

 

[NoctisDan]

the reason opeth as well as other bands use modellers with tube amps is because they sound much better running through tubes then through normal full range systems and you get much versitilty touring because you have one pedal that has everything always set. So even if you have to borrow amps on tour you can still get basically the same tones.

The cabling method that opeth use, they that everyone running a MXF into a tube amp should use is the 4 cable method.

gos are follows,

Guitar>MXF input>MXF Send>Amp input>Amp Send>MFX Return>MFX Output>Amp Return.

This way if you activate your MFX loop you shall be using the preamp tube in your amp head instead of using the preamp in your MXF. That way you get the best of both worlds.

I have a GT-10 and a Laney GH100L so i know this works. Just remember the put things in the right place in your MFX Fx chain. Think about it as if it was a floor board setup.

so like Wahs first, then your loop to your amp, EQs, then reverbs and chorus effects.

Good luck.

 

[xDetonatorx]

the reason opeth as well as other bands use modellers with tube amps is because they sound much better running through tubes then through normal full range systems and you get much versitilty touring because you have one pedal that has everything always set. So even if you have to borrow amps on tour you can still get basically the same tones.

I don't agree with this. Modelers are for the most part designed with an inherent extended frequency range that allows the unit to recreate the sounds of amps that in real life have very different frequency responses. For example 90% of the time Opeth use an American style low mid focused high gain tone that is very reminiscent of Mesa and Engl voiced amps. This necessitates the use of the GT8 to create the appropriate distortion sound. Since the Laney's preamp and power sections are a much different design than say an Engl SE or a Mesa recto, the frequencies that the Laney will output after all the filtering and coloration of the circuit will not be the same. It's kind of like forcing a square peg into a round hole. Inevitably, the corners of the square peg (certain frequencies) will be cut off. This is why a full frequency poweramp is generally the best solution.

This way if you activate your MFX loop you shall be using the preamp tube in your amp head instead of using the preamp in your MXF. That way you get the best of both worlds.

Using the GT8 out front of the amp does not use the preamp tube for distortion. The unit creates the distortion which is then fed through the tone stack of the Laney. IMHO this is pointless as it just adds unnecessary tone sucking circuitry to the chain. It would make more sense simply to run the output from the FX unit into the FX loop return on the amp and bypass the preamp completely.

 

[Reelo]

Using the GT8 out front of the amp does not use the preamp tube for distortion. The unit creates the distortion which is then fed through the tone stack of the Laney. IMHO this is pointless as it just adds unnecessary tone sucking circuitry to the chain. It would make more sense simply to run the output from the FX unit into the FX loop return on the amp and bypass the preamp completely.

Exactly. If you wanna use your stack's preamp for distortion with a GT (or similar unit) for FX, then the 4-cable method is best. If you're using the MFX unit's models for preamp, then it's best to plug it into the amp's Return, so the sound goes straight to the Power Amp section, thus bypassing the (unused) preamp.
Not sure which way the 'peth guys set their rig up though.
But I highly doubt they're using the Laney's preamp for their distorted sound.

 

[NoctisDan]

I don't agree with this. Modelers are for the most part designed with an inherent extended frequency range that allows the unit to recreate the sounds of amps that in real life have very different frequency responses. For example 90% of the time Opeth use an American style low mid focused high gain tone that is very reminiscent of Mesa and Engl voiced amps. This necessitates the use of the GT8 to create the appropriate distortion sound. Since the Laney's preamp and power sections are a much different design than say an Engl SE or a Mesa recto, the frequencies that the Laney will output after all the filtering and coloration of the circuit will not be the same. It's kind of like forcing a square peg into a round hole. Inevitably, the corners of the square peg (certain frequencies) will be cut off. This is why a full frequency poweramp is generally the best solution.

Well being someone who owns a GT-10 and a Laney GH100L who used to run straight into a full frequency system before switching to the Laney. I do have some idea about what I’m talking about.

Some people prefer the full frequency sound coming out the GT units and they want to reproduce that sound with a full range system. I personally find that approach very digital sounding. That’s why I take the GT 4 cable method into the laney over the PA approach any day. The tubes DO colour the sound, That’s the whole point!
You get a more natural sound, basically you turn off all the cab/ mic simulators in the pedal and just use it like a distortion pedal. I tent to find that a lot of frequencies your talking about are generally unnecessary frequencies anyways, most cabinet speakers don’t produce said frequencies anyways.
Beside who want to create something that is just like a Mesa or Engel anyways? Sure you use those modelled tones as a basis for your distortion, but then create something completely new after using the Laney preamp and EQ. If you want a Mesa sound, go buy a Mesa.

Using the GT8 out front of the amp does not use the preamp tube for distortion. The unit creates the distortion which is then fed through the tone stack of the Laney. IMHO this is pointless as it just adds unnecessary tone sucking circuitry to the chain. It would make more sense simply to run the output from the FX unit into the FX loop return on the amp and bypass the preamp completely.

Of course it will, thus why I suggested using the 4 cable method.

But different strokes for different folks. Do what ever you think sounds the best. There is no correct way of doing it. This just happens to be the way i enjoy doing it and it seems Opeth do as well.

 

[Xarthaz]

Some people prefer the full frequency sound coming out the GT units and they want to reproduce that sound with a full range system. I personally find that approach very digital sounding. That’s why I take the GT 4 cable method into the laney over the PA approach any day. The tubes DO colour the sound, That’s the whole point!

If running through a clean channel that isnt cranked(ie no power tube distortion), there is no colouring other than the frequency filter of the amp circuit & speaker and possible slight compression by the speakers, both of which are easy to model.(eq + speaker sim + slight compression)

 

[NoctisDan]

If running through a clean channel that isnt cranked(ie no power tube distortion), there is no colouring other than the frequency filter of the amp circuit & speaker and possible slight compression by the speakers, both of which are easy to model.(eq + speaker sim + slight compression)

With the Laney your still using the EL84s on the output section aswell

 

[Xarthaz]

With the Laney your still using the EL84s on the output section aswell

yeah el84 6l6 el34 whatever, basically they function as a filter if they are in their linear range(ie el84 giving more high end, el34 mids, 6l6 more bass and high end) just like the microphone that is in front of the speaker.

 

[NoctisDan]

yeah el84 6l6 el34 whatever, basically they function as a filter if they are in their linear range(ie el84 giving more high end, el34 mids, 6l6 more bass and high end) just like the microphone that is in front of the speaker.

yeah thats right. everything will factor in a change of tone. Whos to say that is a bad thing?

 

[xDetonatorx]

It's a matter of preference of course, but to my ears, digital gain sounds like digital gain no matter what it's run through. From my experience, running a multi-fx unit into a head may sound fine at lower volumes by it self, but in a live context at higher volumes, these types of rigs generally sound thin or get buried to hell in the live mix.

 

[Xarthaz]

It's a matter of preference of course, but to my ears, digital gain sounds like digital gain no matter what it's run through. From my experience, running a multi-fx unit into a head may sound fine at lower volumes by it self, but in a live context at higher volumes, these types of rigs generally sound thin or get buried to hell in the live mix.

thats what the volume knob is for. again an eq and a spectrum analyzer fixes any problem of thinness or not cutting through(or add more gain if its not crunchy enough although badly voiced gain does seem to be the achilles heel of digital blocks).

yeah thats right. everything will factor in a change of tone. Whos to say that is a bad thing?

its not bad; its impractical. all those stuff(mic, power amp, tone stack, speaker) can be emulated by ONE eq unit with a bit of tweaking(albeit a speaker sim makes things easier), and the result is good enough for live situations(except for weirdos like pettruci)

 

[NoctisDan]

its not bad; its impractical. all those stuff(mic, power amp, tone stack, speaker) can be emulated by ONE eq unit with a bit of tweaking(albeit a speaker sim makes things easier), and the result is good enough for live situations(except for weirdos like pettruci)

i wouldnt call it impractical at all. why emulate a microphone and speaker when you can use a real microphone and speaker? It really comes down to a taste thing and for me its a convinance thing. Being able to have heaps of different sounds coming out of of a one channel amp without needing to carry around heaps of extra gear is great. Also i understand what you mean about the digital distortion sound. But honestly through my Laney, that sound disapears. Its all about how you've got your pedal setup.

Mic/cab sims off, loop set to normal, and a properly setup XF chain. Dont forget proper EQing within the pedal makes a massive difference. Also with the use of amp control i do sometime use the extra gain stage on my Laney.